TRILOGY

Season 8 Predictions?

940 posts in this topic

18 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

It really depends what message the show is looking to convey. On the sliding scale between idealism and cynicism, this show generally has tended towards cynicism.

 

As does the books. 

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19 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

As does the books. 

Yea. The books are over the top almost. The TV show just seemed borderline nihilistic when during the end of season 4 during season 5. 

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53 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

It really depends what message the show is looking to convey. On the sliding scale between idealism and cynicism, this show generally has tended towards cynicism.

So I agree. Jon's honesty was important. But if ultimatley his honesty doesn't serve for more than just to further gain Dany's trust and get her in the sack, it will ultimately have been nothing more than just to re-emphazize cynicism.  For it to be important it has to lead to something. 

Nicely put. :agree:

 

4 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

I feel the logic of the story would be to have the final resolution at Winterfell. Because it is the place of the Starks, the place the story started, the place best protected with its crypts. The place made by Bran the Builder. Possibly with magical protections like BR cave.

But we should also have a battle with all the main characters. And it can only be at KL.

I could imagine the Others taking WF. But failing to catch those taking refuge in the Crypts. The Others then going south, destroying everything everywhere. With the main battle at KL. Finally the last survivors having a last victorious stand at WF.

I would like that. Although they don't seem to have put much importance to the crypt, except for those scenes of Bran and Rickon in season 1.

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On 10/25/2017 at 8:38 PM, Rast said:

Continued

 

Daenerys will have triplets through cesarean

Sansa will become Warden of the North

Arya will become Lady of Winterfell

Jon will give at least 10 speeches and issue 3 challenges for one on one combat

We will not get ice spiders

Bronn will not get a castle

Euron will discover that even though wights can’t swim they can walk across a frozen river

Tormund will die but with his last breath maintain he f**ked a bear

Either Grey Worm or Missandei (or both) will die

Theon’s Iron fleet will combine with Salladhor Saan’s fleet

Cersei will enlist the Warlocks of Qarth

Cersei will enlist the Red Priests/Priestesses of R'hllor

Thanks to catapults, ballistas, wildfire, mystic runes, and the Golden Company, King’s Landing will present a formidable challenge to the Night King

Continued

 

Sansa will meet, fall in love, and marry Gendry

Melisandre and Kinvara will bring their army (Fiery Hand) to Westeros

We will see another Shadow creature

Bran will unsuccessfully attempt to warg into Viserion

Theon will return to Winterfell and discover the North remembers

Tyrion will betray Jon

Arya will kill Tyrion take his face and kill Cersei

Cersei will be brought back to life (becauseshe’s needed if there’s a sequel) by the Lord of Light

Arya will kill Melisandre

The Iron Bank will remind Davos he vouched for Stannis’s loan and demand repayment

The final battle will be between Jon’s army and Daenerys’s army

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20 hours ago, jcmontea said:

It really depends what message the show is looking to convey. On the sliding scale between idealism and cynicism, this show generally has tended towards cynicism.

Characters like a Jon, like a Daenerys and Tyrion are advocating for something different. They are daring to imagine a different world, one where honesty is important, there is no slavery and where the small folk are not continually crushed as a result of the political games played by the high born. 

While it is important for these characters to rise to power and to advocate for these principles, if the show is to end with a message that is not excessive cynicism, these characters will actually have to triumph at some point because of their beliefs and not despite them. 

Season 7 seemed to swing back towards cynicism after Season 6's much needed correction by having the wight hunt go so catastrophically bad with the death of Vicerion, Cersei's betrayal and the fact that Cersei is still around and arguably in a good position as her enemies are set to bear the brunt of the burden fighting the dead. 

So I agree. Jon's honesty was important. But if ultimatley his honesty doesn't serve for more than just to further gain Dany's trust and get her in the sack, it will ultimately have been nothing more than just to re-emphazize cynicism.  For it to be important it has to lead to something. 

Yes, I know. I would not gamble much on where the show is going. It could be a very dark ending. The Others winning because no alliance were possible. Cersei and Daenerys annihilating each other and everyone. Total victory of Ice, or total victory of Fire. But I believe it's more "bad writing" and "shocking story line" by D&D than deliberate nihilism.

I much liked season 7, for Jon's bringing peace and reforging the northern alliance. It's the 1st time since season 1 that I read in the show the moral values and the story purpose that I read in the book series. I know the storyboard derailed, maybe more than usual. But it's not my main interest.

I know GRRM said stuff like:

There are some people who read and want to believe in a world where the good guys win and the bad guys lose, and at the end they live happily ever after. That's not the kind of fiction that I write.

But he put in his story people with high moral, or simply kind and just people. Like Sam, Davos, Mance... Most of them orbiting around Jon. I'm not sure how to conjugate my hopes with the above statement. OK, someone may still win by killing and submitting everyone who disagree: "bend the knee or die". But I've hopes in something better, like the GEoD (but not for the show anyway).

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5 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Yes, I know. I would not gamble much on where the show is going. It could be a very dark ending. The Others winning because no alliance were possible. Cersei and Daenerys annihilating each other and everyone. Total victory of Ice, or total victory of Fire. But I believe it's more "bad writing" and "shocking story line" by D&D than deliberate nihilism.

I much liked season 7, for Jon's bringing peace and reforging the northern alliance. It's the 1st time since season 1 that I read in the show the moral values and the story purpose that I read in the book series. I know the storyboard derailed, maybe more than usual. But it's not my main interest.

I know GRRM said stuff like:

There are some people who read and want to believe in a world where the good guys win and the bad guys lose, and at the end they live happily ever after. That's not the kind of fiction that I write.

But he put in his story people with high moral, or simply kind and just people. Like Sam, Davos, Mance... Most of them orbiting around Jon. I'm not sure how to conjugate my hopes with the above statement. OK, someone may still win by killing and submitting everyone who disagree: "bend the knee or die". But I've hopes in something better, like the GEoD (but not for the show anyway).

My hope is that between the sliding scale of idealism and cynicism we end up right in the middle at a very realistic place. Not someplace that is nihilistic. but not some place either where it is over the top idealistic where the heroes win because they were good. A nice middle ground where we see that the world is messy, but that pure cynicism has its own costs, where believing in a better world and fighting for it while difficult and not always rewarded is important and the right thing to do but in order to achieve that world you have to understand power, how to use it and that sometimes being feared is necessary. 

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7 hours ago, jcmontea said:

My hope is that between the sliding scale of idealism and cynicism we end up right in the middle at a very realistic place. Not someplace that is nihilistic. but not some place either where it is over the top idealistic where the heroes win because they were good. A nice middle ground where we see that the world is messy, but that pure cynicism has its own costs, where believing in a better world and fighting for it while difficult and not always rewarded is important and the right thing to do but in order to achieve that world you have to understand power, how to use it and that sometimes being feared is necessary. 

Yes. Attempting the "middle ground", as you say, should be the result of a realistic writing. But my feeling is, given the blood price payed, the People should be granted a more "unrealistic" reward. If living in such a world, if the end result was the "return to business as usual", then I would just prefer to die the first day. I would not fight for a price so high and a reward so little. I would agree with the Others and gods: "men don't deserve to live if they don't understand the lesson". GRRM is writing a fantasy story, with gods and no clear separation between life and death. People behaviors are realistic. But the world is not. So I hope he will find something rewarding, without being naive and fairy tale's ending.

Edited by BalerionTheCat

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On 30/11/2017 at 0:18 AM, Meera of Tarth said:

Euron will play a role, but I'm not sure if he'll be the final human villain or he will be alive along with Cersei, probably marrying her as well.

The thing about Euron is that in the show they sort of tacted him on, last minute. In the books, he's a much bigger deal - he might even be the one who actually gets control of Viserion if that horn of his works. He might even be indirectly (if not actually directly) responsible for the Wall coming down if Sam's horn really is the Horn of Winter. Depending on how seriously we can take his weird "what if we can fly" fantasies and the nickname "Crow's Eye" referring to more than just his black eye, he might even be like the anti-Bran and one of actual-Bran's boss battles.

In the show, he'll just be Theon's proxy-Ramsay and that's it.

On 01/12/2017 at 1:58 AM, Caterina Sforza said:

I would like that. Although they don't seem to have put much importance to the crypt, except for those scenes of Bran and Rickon in season 1.

In the show, pretty anyone seems to be able to just... wander in. The Crypts and their location are a massive secret that most people don't know about; only the Stark children, the Walders (because Rickon told them, which annoyed Bran), Theon and now, I guess, Lady Barb know where the entrance is. It's the whole reason why Bran and company were able to hide down there is because no one thought to look for them in Winterfell after their feint of escape, let alone that they would be bunkering down inside the crypts.

Together with Jon not really having the recurring dream of trying to go down to the crypts, or Bran having the weird crypts dreams where he and Rickon claim to have seen Ned's ghost (they see his death in the show but not his actual ghost) -- the crypts are a nothing in the show.

GoT really does feel like it is filled with a lot of orphaned plot threads, though, so many the crypts will provide some sort of bunker for a big showdown at Winterfell... but I doubt it.

7 hours ago, jcmontea said:
 

Hmmmmmmmm...

Spoiler

 

RE: Winterfell... siege weapons? WTF would NK be doing with siege weapons? Did he get them from the same place he bought his giant chains from? Why would wights need to siege Winterfell anyway? I guess what I'm getting at is... it looks like human armies might be attacking Winterfell. 

RE: King's Landing set. Yeah, I think we can all guess what that controlled fire might be. It is about two or three possibilities. after all.

 

 

Edited by Faera

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Spoiler

The siege is interesting. Its weird that its the AOTD yet at the same time its weird for a human arny to reach that far north. 

 

Who do you think burns unleashes dragonfire on KL? The NK, Dany or Bran? 

 

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12 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Yes. Attempting the "middle ground", as you say, should be the result of a realistic writing. But my feeling is, given the blood price payed, the People should be granted a more "unrealistic" reward. If living in such a world, if the end result was the "return to business as usual", then I would just prefer to die the first day. I would not fight for a price so high and a reward so little. I would agree with the Others and gods: "men don't deserve to live if they don't understand the lesson". GRRM is writing a fantasy story, with gods and no clear separation between life and death. People behaviors are realistic. But the world is not. So I hope he will find something rewarding, without being naive and fairy tale's ending.

I find GRRM quite nihilistic but truth be told, if it is for lesson learned, history has taught us that the mankind has never learned the lesson. Bittersweet ending would be great for me, but I am not sure what that means in GoT/ASoIAF. Some people think LOTR was not bitter enough. To me it was cause a world without elves was very sad and not at all fascinating anymore. 

 

12 hours ago, Faera said:

 

  Hide contents

 

RE: Winterfell... siege weapons? WTF would NK be doing with siege weapons? Did he get them from the same place he bought his giant chains from? Why would wights need to siege Winterfell anyway? I guess what I'm getting at is... it looks like human armies might be attacking Winterfell. 

RE: King's Landing set. Yeah, I think we can all guess what that controlled fire might be. It is about two or three possibilities. after all.

 

 

Spoiler

It does make sense though to stay within the walls of WF when the WW&wights attack. The Dragons can fly around and burn them. 

 

7 hours ago, jcmontea said:
  Hide contents

The siege is interesting. Its weird that its the AOTD yet at the same time its weird for a human arny to reach that far north. 

 

Who do you think burns unleashes dragonfire on KL? The NK, Dany or Bran? 

 

Spoiler

Dany and possibly Jon. I don't see Bran going south. His story will be concluded in the north.

 

Edited by Caterina Sforza

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55 minutes ago, Caterina Sforza said:

I find GRRM quite nihilistic but truth be told, if it is for lesson learned, history has taught us that the mankind has never learned the lesson.

Yes. I believe he is very nihilistic concerning our world. So he is writing another one. One with some hope. There would be no Prince Promised if not.

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3 hours ago, jcmontea said:
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The siege is interesting. Its weird that its the AOTD yet at the same time its weird for a human arny to reach that far north. 

 

Who do you think burns unleashes dragonfire on KL? The NK, Dany or Bran? 

 

Spoiler

Either way, it doesn't make sense. At all. Unless those siege weapons are only there the throw off spoiler scouts.

Honestly, it could be any of those options. If I were Dany, given how time constraints are no longer an issue, I'd probably find time to pop back to KL and blow Cersei up the minute I heard she betrayed me. However, I would also argue that NK would bring the biggest payoff and allow for that true convergence I have been crying out for on this thread and others. That said, it'll probably be something as simple as crazy Cersei blowing up KL for some reason.

Bran would be my wildcard choice.

 

 

2 hours ago, Caterina Sforza said:
Spoiler

It does make sense though to stay within the walls of WF when the WW&wights attack. The Dragons can fly around and burn them. 

 

Spoiler

On paper, of course, it makes sense for them to haul up in Winterfell. The issue I have with this is that NK has a zombie!Viserion that took out a chunk of the Wall. By that logic, blowing a hole in the battlements of Winterfell should be like cutting a slice of cake. We saw at Hardhome and in the Battle of the Frozen Lake that wights will simply pile on top of each other in order to get over an obstacle. Plus, would Dany be dumb enough to risk her final two dragons with 'Guinness Book of Records 302 AC' javelin gold-medalist NK around. Especially now he himself is mounted. Honestly, the only realistic way I see this siege on WF working is if, for whatever reason, NK isn't there... but why wouldn't he be there?

 

2 hours ago, Caterina Sforza said:
Spoiler

Dany and possibly Jon. I don't see Bran going south. His story will be concluded in the north.

 

Spoiler

He could warg a dragon and use that to burn things up. Question is... why would he do that? I only would foresee him using a dragon over KL if NK was already there blowing things up.

 

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2 hours ago, Faera said:
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Either way, it doesn't make sense. At all. Unless those siege weapons are only there the throw off spoiler scouts.

Honestly, it could be any of those options. If I were Dany, given how time constraints are no longer an issue, I'd probably find time to pop back to KL and blow Cersei up the minute I heard she betrayed me. However, I would also argue that NK would bring the biggest payoff and allow for that true convergence I have been crying out for on this thread and others. That said, it'll probably be something as simple as crazy Cersei blowing up KL for some reason.

Bran would be my wildcard choice.

 

 

Spoiler

The NK has better than siege engines for breaking walls. The Others could know how to build and operate such engines. But the wights should be even less adequate to use them than drawing a chain.

I definitely want the Others paying a visit to Cersei. They could have left a small detachment to keep an eye en WF. And gone south with their main forces.

I expect KL to be the main battlefield between Daenerys and the NK. So everyone, even Cersei, could give a hand in burning it.

 

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2 hours ago, Faera said:

 

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On paper, of course, it makes sense for them to haul up in Winterfell. The issue I have with this is that NK has a zombie!Viserion that took out a chunk of the Wall. By that logic, blowing a hole in the battlements of Winterfell should be like cutting a slice of cake. We saw at Hardhome and in the Battle of the Frozen Lake that wights will simply pile on top of each other in order to get over an obstacle. Plus, would Dany be dumb enough to risk her final two dragons with 'Guinness Book of Records 302 AC' javelin gold-medalist NK around. Especially now he himself is mounted. Honestly, the only realistic way I see this siege on WF working is if, for whatever reason, NK isn't there... but why wouldn't he be there?

 

Spoiler

As we were talking a couple of days ago, it depends if the NK will be using Viserion from the start or not. In either case Dany will be forced to use the Dragons at some point. They're with her and I don't see how you can't use them, especially with Viserion in the middle. The question is how does Viserion works now. The other 2 Dragons can kill him with fire but can he kill (or froze) them? Probably yes, but I'm not 100% sure how is this gonna play. I can see Bran trying to skinchange into Viserion. Can he manage to do that? I don't know but he's the only one who can. He may try and die in the process too. 

 

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11 hours ago, Caterina Sforza said:
Spoiler

As we were talking a couple of days ago, it depends if the NK will be using Viserion from the start or not. In either case Dany will be forced to use the Dragons at some point.

 

1

 

Spoiler

Honestly, I would love it if it turns out that NK is not at Winterfell because he's gone off to create more troops on Viserion across Westeros. It's the only logical reason I can think of for why he wouldn't be there and a siege would be going on.

 
 

 

11 hours ago, Caterina Sforza said:
Spoiler

In either case Dany will be forced to use the Dragons at some point. They're with her and I don't see how you can't use them, especially with Viserion in the middle. The question is how does Viserion works now. The other 2 Dragons can kill him with fire but can he kill (or froze) them? Probably yes, but I'm not 100% sure how is this gonna play. I can see Bran trying to skinchange into Viserion. Can he manage to do that? I don't know but he's the only one who can. He may try and die in the process too. 

 

3

Obviously, Dany will need to use her dragons at some point. The real question is...

Spoiler

Will Jon get to ride Rhaegal? Surely if both dragons have riders, it will make them harder to target by NK as they will have someone to guide them in flight. Also, if NK heads off away from Winterfell, will Jon and Dany need to separate - one chases him, the other guards Winterfell. If Dany gets pregnant, it might make sense if she stays at Winterfell (with the majority of her army), as well.

 

 

Edited by Faera

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I think Winterfell will fall at the beginning of the season after a fantastic battle at the gates of Winterfell. Possible deaths during the battle: Greyworm, Arya, Danny.

The series will end with a conclusive battle in Kings Landing against the Others. Deaths: Varys, Melissandre, Cersey, Jamie, Euron, the Mountain, the Hound, Theon. 

King at the End: Aegon VI Targaryen. Hand: Davos. 

Ruler of the north: Sansa Stark, Lands of Winterfell.

Ruler of the Westerlands: Tyrion Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock.

Ruler of the East/Stormlands: Gendry Baratheon, Lord of Storms End.

Ruler of the Reach: Samwell Tarly, Lord of Highgarden. 

Ruler of the Iron Islands: Yara Greyjoy.

No Idea what will happen to Dorne or the Eyre. I guess it will never be mentioned again. 

Edited by Dragonsbone

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Spoiler

"This set outside of Titanic Studios will depict multiple city streets of King’s Landing, just so they can destroy them in a truly Game of Thrones fashion — by dragonfire, according to our sources. Yes, at some point in season eight, the capital of the Seven Kingdoms may be razed by dragons."

My bet is on Dany, alone. 

 

Edited by TRILOGY

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Interesting video given the discussion on Jon being Ned 2.0 or not 

 

 

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On 11/30/2017 at 8:46 PM, jcmontea said:

Yea. The books are over the top almost. The TV show just seemed borderline nihilistic when during the end of season 4 during season 5. 

I guess the nihilism is something that's always made me apprehensive about the books/show. 

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