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Season 8 Predictions?


AEJON TARGARYEN

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The kind of love idealized by the books is Ned and Cat's imo: A marriage started in good faith and with common goals where love is built brick by brick.

 

Ending predictions:

As a Sansa fan, the one thing I'm fairly confident about is Sansa remaining attached to Winterfell.

 

As for the Iron throne, if it still exists I think Gendry has as much chance of ending up on it as anyone. His blood-claim is just as good as any Targ's. Also I think it would have a nice kind of symmetry for Arya to end up with the destiny originally meant for Sansa: married to a Baratheon king on the Iron throne. (It would be a nice call back to Robert and Lyanna too. Also it would fulfill Ned's promise to her about being married to a king.)

My guess is that Dany ends up dead.

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20 hours ago, Super Mario said:

Feels like the whole incest thing gets a bit overblown. Aside from possible reproductive issues it just doesn't seem like that big a deal. In real life the biggest taboo about incest is that it usually involves some type of abuse, but clearly that isn't the case with Jon & Dany. They are just two people that fell in love. Granted, aunt/nephew is not an ideal arrangement, but in the context of ASOIF, it shouldn't be a deal breaker either.

 

10 hours ago, kimim said:

Yes, it would be perfect, but for the incest. Maybe that's how both the novels and the show will magic away how saccharine this relationship is, if it indeed ends the show/novels. Minus incest, it's way more perfect than the Aragorn-Arwen thing, which was haunted by Arwen's new and unwelcome mortality. Tolkien said that LotR was about death, and he underlines that in their story.

btw the show came closest to normalizing incest in Myrcella's speech to Jaime, right before she died.

These are not typical flesh and blood human beings anymore.  Jon snow (nephew) died at the hands of mutineers. Jon Snow (WOLF-HEATTM) is some prophesied quasi-magical being that came into existence a day or two later. Dany is "the blood of the dragon", not just metaphorically. I might have to check this on Wikipedia, but I'm pretty sure giving birth to a stillborn infant with leathery wings, "scaled like a lizard" and full of grey worms is not physically possible for an average human.  Neither is surviving two fiery infernos.   Third degree consanguinity might not be an issue here.

Jamie and Cersei are just selfish, skeevy royal perverts.  Myrcella spent too much time in Dorne.  They're a bit mad down there.

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On 15/9/2017 at 1:30 AM, Tyrion1991 said:

OP

I think they might be trying to mislead people with Jorah/Dany. Most of the second half of season 7 involved a lot Jorah seemingly acquiescing or even approving the budding relationship between Jon and Dany. Even to the point of the whole talk over Longclaw about kids. So its very much stressing that he is gracefully stepping aside and letting the better man come in. 

But, by the same token, this went hand in hand with them really pushing the relationship as this sweet and beautiful thing. Which in turn, is subverted at the end with the reveal that she is his Aunt. Making the relationship incest. Judging by Inside the Episode and the way it was shot and the whole "we have to tell him"; this is not going to end well. D&D even spelt this out emphatically "shes his aunt" and how what seemed so perfect and able to solve everything won't work out.

Which I think means they must have been trying to throw us off, by implying that this was the final nail in the coffin for Jorah getting with Daenerys. But it can't be if Jon/Dany isn't going to pan out. Which itself raises the possibility that, actually Dany is going to end up with the guy whos been by her side from the beginning. 

Why would this happen? Three scenarios:

1. Jorah full on confesses his love for Dany and she returns his affection:

In the show he actually hasn't done this. In season 7, there are a few moments, like at the beach where he's about to say something but cuts it short instead when Jon shows up. Plus when he learnt that Dany was going with Jon and the boat he did look a bit forlorn. So perhaps he decides to say how he actually feels and with all that's happening, end of the world, etc etc Dany does actually feel something and returns his love. A bit like the scene from A Storm of Swords only, it works out.

2. The Northern Lords/Vale/Riverlands makes their allegiance to Dany conditional on her marrying a Northern Lord

Its already been teased that the Northern Lords, Vale and presumably Riverlords will have a problem with the Mad Queens Daughter. Sansa is clearly going to take exception to this. They all objected to Jon going, especially Lyanna Mormont. So they don't like Dany and adamantly want a free North. Now, Jon marrying Dany is the perfect get out of dodge thing here. But, D&D have made it clear that this Aragon/Arwen thing that solves everything won't happen because incest. So if she can't marry a Stark, then surely they will insist on the next best compromise which is that Dany marry a good Northern Lord to reassure them that their interests will be looked after. Which is a very short list when you think about it. Dany already told Daario that she was fully prepared to marry somebody for duty and to secure the realm. If she has to marry a Northerner to win over three realms then; may as well be Jorah.

Which would be hilarious. Just think, who is most likely to be shouting this at Dany? Lyanna Mormont. Which means Dany can just drop the mike when she says she going to marry her cousin. :D 

3. The Incest Child

Okay hear me out on this next one. There was a lot of baby talk in season 7. There is very likely to be an incest baby inbound. However, they can't marry because of incest. The child will be a fatherless bastard because the secret has to be kept. This will cause big problems for Dany. Yes, she can legitimise bastards but this has risks and the very fact the father isn't known could lead people to suspect the truth that its Jon's child and that could in turn lead to the darker truth of the child being born of incest. Nobody, especially not the child, must know.  

So what Dany needs. :D 

- Is somebody with Northern blood to explain the childs features.

- Somebody willing to raise another mans child. (which would be hilarious after the sword conversation with Jon) 

- Somebody who can keep a secret.

- Somebody who she can convincingly turn around and say she had a relationship with. Some Northerner in her retinue who always by her side perhaps?

Now a lot of this third one depends on Jon and theres A LOT of variables to that. He might die facing the Night King in single combat. He might not know he had a son by Dany as she might conceal it from him. He might go along with the lie out of respect for Danys wishes. It would be an interesting parallel to Ned and himself and a way of bringing the story full circle.

BTW: Given how awesome the She Bears are it would be really great if Dany and Jorah had a daughter. 

 

As n an Unsullied till season 5, I suspected that Jorah and Dany would become a thing because of how the story is done, emphasizing the connection a lot, and the way she doesn't "love" him in the same way, but also developing their relationship to deeper levels, so that she could possibly fall in love one day.

Even after season fivr, I thought they were adding some scenes that would justify this possible future sceneario. (s5 and s6's scenes).

No, I don't think it will happen now but I was interested to read your analysis. And in the show, my number one choice for Dany has always been him (although now I'd love to see Daario back as well even after never having shipped them) bc this relationship with her nephew has made me abhor the character of Dany and it's super anti-romantic. Others would be, this one is the worst choice ever on a TV show.

As for Dany's men, Jon is the worst choice in romantic terms (not political) for multiple reasons. I am rewatching season seven and Jonerys theme (played in their scenes together to sugggest that something is going on-I personally don't see anything and I've rewatched till episode 4-) is super bittersweet. I think that means something.

They are doomed. We saw no first kiss (typical in the romances), it was too quick, they went to bed in season seven after no building-up, while the audience is discovering the incest in the same episode that the other incestuous relationship finally breaks up and they are relieved for that.....but then Jonerys happens and she is his aunt!

The showrunners telling this in the Inside as you piint out.....

Let's be fair, Jonerys is not epic, it's clice, very badly done, so quickly, with no story developed between them and their personalities don't really match up. To sum up, she is his aunt. She might not have a problem with it, but Jon will. And an aunt is not a cousin. The show has not established that the Stark family tree has a minority of half-avunculate marriages (as someone pointed out) , but in contrast has talked about Targaryen's incest a lot and has showed us that the relationships of this kind don't work and are bad; and has only pointed out cousin marriages as acceptable (but not even the example of the normal thing). Also, the product of incest and the relationships are two different things.

And we also had the "We have to tell him!" sentence.....while the boatsex goes on...and the big cliffhanger for more inevitable drama in s8.

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On 16/9/2017 at 1:56 AM, greensleeves said:

As for the Iron throne, if it still exists I think Gendry has as much chance of ending up on it as anyone. His blood-claim is just as good as any Targ's. Also I think it would have a nice kind of symmetry for Arya to end up with the destiny originally meant for Sansa: married to a Baratheon king on the Iron throne. (It would be a nice call back to Robert and Lyanna too. Also it would fulfill Ned's promise to her about being married to a king.)

I think it would be great, and I've thought about it many times as a great twist that actually makes sense bc I like the character, but I don't think it has lots of chances, on the contrary.

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2 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

They are doomed. We saw no first kiss (typical in the romances), it was too quick, they went to bed in season seven after no building-up, while the audience is discovering the incest in the same episode that the other incestuous relationship finally breaks up and they are relieved for that.....but then Jonerys happens and she is his aunt!

That was weird. I understand why they did it (cliffhanger, shock value, etc) but still. :blink:

It felt rushed, they could've made their feelings clear in S7 (for example, an intimate conversation with no mentions of the war) but no resolution yet, more romantic tension, more depth, and the final culmination in mid S8. Show, don't tell @ Tyrion/Davos/Bran. 

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2 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

We saw no first kiss (typical in the romances), it was too quick, they went to bed in season seven after no building-up

There was plenty of buildup (gazes of longing and intrigue, intimate scenes of them being alone in E6 and E7, handholding, etc.), but judging from the rest of your post, you're a part of the audience that abhors their relationship for no other reason than "OMG they're related, nasty!", so you probably ignored the buildup (perhaps unintentionally) because you didn't like it.

Let's be fair, Jonerys is not epic, it's clice, very badly done, so quickly, with no story developed between them and their personalities don't really match up. To sum up, she is his aunt

You are entitled to your opinion, but please don't make it sound like this is an objective fact. It's not.
I wasn't a "Jonerys-shipper" in S7E1, the fact that they might end up together had barely even crossed my mind, but by S7E7 I very much ship them and I like how their relationship progressed during S7. 

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3 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

As n an Unsullied till season 5, I suspected that Jorah and Dany would become a thing because of how the story is done, emphasizing the connection a lot, and the way she doesn't "love" him in the same way, but also developing their relationship to deeper levels, so that she could possibly fall in love one day.

Even after season fivr, I thought they were adding some scenes that would justify this possible future sceneario. (s5 and s6's scenes).

No, I don't think it will happen now but I was interested to read your analysis. And in the show, my number one choice for Dany has always been him (although now I'd love to see Daario back as well even after never having shipped them) bc this relationship with her nephew has made me abhor the character of Dany and it's super anti-romantic. Others would be, this one is the worst choice ever on a TV show.

As for Dany's men, Jon is the worst choice in romantic terms (not political) for multiple reasons. I am rewatching season seven and Jonerys theme (played in their scenes together to sugggest that something is going on-I personally don't see anything and I've rewatched till episode 4-) is super bittersweet. I think that means something.

They are doomed. We saw no first kiss (typical in the romances), it was too quick, they went to bed in season seven after no building-up, while the audience is discovering the incest in the same episode that the other incestuous relationship finally breaks up and they are relieved for that.....but then Jonerys happens and she is his aunt!

The showrunners telling this in the Inside as you piint out.....

Let's be fair, Jonerys is not epic, it's clice, very badly done, so quickly, with no story developed between them and their personalities don't really match up. To sum up, she is his aunt. She might not have a problem with it, but Jon will. And an aunt is not a cousin. The show has not established that the Stark family tree has a minority of half-avunculate marriages (as someone pointed out) , but in contrast has talked about Targaryen's incest a lot and has showed us that the relationships of this kind don't work and are bad; and has only pointed out cousin marriages as acceptable (but not even the example of the normal thing). Also, the product of incest and the relationships are two different things.

And we also had the "We have to tell him!" sentence.....while the boatsex goes on...and the big cliffhanger for more inevitable drama in s8.

I will believe they are doomed when I see it. 

Until then if I didn't know better it looks as if this entire series has been building towards these two people coming together almost as if the series was named after them. 

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Jon will become the new Night King (his entire storyline is tied to north) Daenerys will become his queen, the Night Queen (as foreshadowed by her marriage to Khal Drogo).Their child inherits the Throne and rebuilds the Targaryen dynasty (Lightbringer/Prince that was promised/Maiden-made-of-Light's child in the Yi Ti explanation of the Long Night). He can't do that all alone so the great Houses that destroyed House Targaryen work together to rebuild it. Sansa is the younger, more beautiful queen who casts Cersei aside and marries a Baratheon like she was supposed to in the very beginning of her story - Gendry King's Blood Baratheon. Tyrion is Dany's betrayal for love (in the original story there was a love triangle between Jon, Arya and Tyrion. I believe GRRM kept this but swithed Arya with Dany. It would also fit into Tyrion's theme of feeling betrayed by the women she loves). Arya uses Euron's face to kill Cersei. (This fulfills the dual meaning of the valonqar prophecy which speaks of gender neutral valonqar and then of "he" who chokes Cersei to death. It's little sister Arya using Euron's hands). Jaime becomes the Hand in the end, which is a play on words aswell as hinted on in the way Jaime gave council to Tommen. In the very end Samwell writes the story down.

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13 minutes ago, MakeThemBurn said:

Jon will become the new Night King (his entire storyline is tied to north) Daenerys will become his queen, the Night Queen (as foreshadowed by her marriage to Khal Drogo).

???? what does it mean? Jon and Dany become the new enemy of mankind?

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31 minutes ago, MakeThemBurn said:

 Arya uses Euron's face to kill Cersei. (This fulfills the dual meaning of the valonqar prophecy which speaks of gender neutral valonqar 

You got your prophecies mixed up. It's the prince who was promised that's supposedly gender neutral, not the valonqar.

Also this theory about Jon and Dany becoming the new Nightking/Nightqueen needs to stop. It's outright stupid, there is no evidence for it and having the two main protagonists end up as the future enemies of mankind is hardly a bittersweet and satisfying ending, quite the opposite.

Hmm...now when I re-read your post again I'm not actually sure if you're being sincere or just trolling with your prediction. 

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Just now, Nowy Tends said:

???? what does it mean? Jon and Dany become the new enemy of mankind?

They become the balancing factor. Mankind will only work together if they are forced to. The Yi Ti explanation of the Long Night says that Night Queen's (aka Maiden-made-of-Light) child and his children ruled Yi Ti for thousands of years until one day the ruler was killed and the Night King (aka Lion of Night) unleashed his wrath on mankind. This explains Daenerys perfectly. She keeps calling the slaves her children and keeps killing the slave masters. In other words, she is already behaving like the Night Queen by punishing those who hurt her children. And by becoming the Night Queen she becomes an immortal, a forever threat on mankind, promising to hurt those who hurt her children. This way she can protect the Targaryen dynasty and ensure that no one dares to return back to slavery.

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Just now, MinscS2 said:

You got your prophecies mixed up. It's the prince who was promised that's supposedly gender neutral, not the valonqar.

Also this theory about Jon and Dany becoming the new Nightking/Nightqueen needs to stop. It's outright stupid, there is no evidence for it and having the two main protagonists end up as the future enemies of mankind is hardly a bittersweet and satisfying ending, quite the opposite.

Hmm...now when I re-read your post again I'm not actually sure if you're being sincere or just trolling with your prediction. 

There are no genders in Valyrian language. This holds true with both prince that was promised and valonqar. Also, Jon and Dany becoming the Night King and Queen does make sense when we look at their stories thematically. It's especially so if we look at Daenerys. She is already behaving like Maiden-made-of-light and her entire story arc started with her marrying the khal of all khals, Khal Drogo. Jon Snow's story is a bit more vaque, but since Dany's story suggests that she will have a king and that her conversion will happen voluntarily (Nissa Nissa exposing her breast/The controversial book version of her wedding night with Khal Drogo where she wanted to sleep with him) it makes sense that the King would be Jon at this point. Also, Jon's death scene was written in a very peculiar manner suggesting as much and the his entire story ties him to the land of always winter. Jon's story has been all about the Night King. Somewhere along the way he met the girl kissed by fire - Ygritte, who served as a plot tool to explain his love to Daenerys. From a writer's perspective there would be no need for Ygritte if the love between Dany and Jon didn't result in something bombastic.

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21 minutes ago, MakeThemBurn said:

 The Yi Ti explanation of the Long Night says that Night Queen's (aka Maiden-made-of-Light) child and his children ruled Yi Ti for thousands of years until one day the ruler was killed and the Night King (aka Lion of Night) unleashed his wrath on mankind. This explains Daenerys perfectly.

I'm sure the show-only watchers will love this… :wacko:

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9 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

I'm sure the show-only watchers will love this… :wacko:

They don't have to know about it. It just explains Daenerys as a character and ties all of her themes together. Motherhood is a massive theme in her story and if we accept Dany as Maiden-made-of-light we understand that everything she has been doing in Slaver's Bay makes sense from the persepctive of Maiden-made-of-light furiously protecting ALL of her children. Not just the ones of her own blood but also the slaves she calls children. By becoming the new threat she ensures their safety. If the Westerosi or the slave masters hurt her children again, Dany will return and honor the promise she made at the end of season 1: "And I swear to you, those who would harm you will die screaming!"

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7 minutes ago, MakeThemBurn said:

They don't have to know about it. It just explains Daenerys as a character and ties all of her themes together. Motherhood is a massive theme in her story and if we accept Dany as Maiden-made-of-light we understand that everything she has been doing in Slaver's Bay makes sense from the persepctive of Maiden-made-of-light furiously protecting ALL of her children. Not just the ones of her own blood but also the slaves she calls children. By becoming the new threat she ensures their safety. If the Westerosi or the slave masters hurt her children again, Dany will return and honor the promise she made at the end of season 1: "And I swear to you, those who would harm you will die screaming!"

Honestly, an ending like this would be super dumb. 

This needs to be set up and foreshadowed or else its just bad storytelling and a shock for shocks sake at the end. 

I am happy to be wrong, but I have not seen any foreshadowing for Daenerys being the Night Queen. 

Ultimately the question is the following lets assume thats the ending. Can we rewatch the whole show seeing all the signs for that? 

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1 hour ago, jcmontea said:

Honestly, an ending like this would be super dumb. 

This needs to be set up and foreshadowed or else its just bad storytelling and a shock for shocks sake at the end. 

I am happy to be wrong, but I have not seen any foreshadowing for Daenerys being the Night Queen. 

Ultimately the question is the following lets assume thats the ending. Can we rewatch the whole show seeing all the signs for that? 

To be honest, out of all the characters on the show, Daenerys is the one who has gone through the biggest transformation from her book self. The show threw away all of her character progression in episode 1.10 by making her a full-blown Targaryen. They wanted a sexy, tough chick because that's media sexy but in the process the complexities of her character were ruined. So bad storytelling is not something I'd overrule in context of the show.

 

But, to go forward, she has to go back. To the start of her journey - her marriage with Khal Drogo. Drogo was a scary undefeated barbarian who ruled the largest khalasar Essos had ever seen. Like Ygritte was a plot tool to introduce Dany to Jon's story, Khal Drogo was a plot tool to foreshadow her future marriage to another scary figure - the Night King. After Khal Drogo died, she asked Mirri Maz Duur when will she see him again and Mirri gave her a description of the icy north. (Some say that mountains blowing in the wind talk about the pyramids of Mereen but that's how GRRM writes. He loves to include little hints which he obscures by giving people something obvious to concentrate on. Sansa slaying a monster in a castle made of snow and then giving a chapter about Sansa kicking down a snow castle is a prime example. A good prophecy reveales itself in the very end. We are definitely talking about snowy mountains here). The show also had her cross the Wall (House of the undying) and walk further into north where she was reunited with Khal Drogo and her baby. If we accept that Khal Drogo was a plot tool to foreshadow her future, then these two prophecies translate into her repeating the past by marrying the Khal Drogo-like Night King and having his baby. (Her book self had tons of visions and prophecies in the House of the Undying, many of which talked about her role as the "bride of fire" and her having to drink from the cups of fire and ice. So we know that A. she will marry, B. her fire blood has a part to play in this marriage and C. that she will drink from the cup of ice).

 

After her storyline in season 1, Dany has spent her time freeing slaves. This is when her motherhood theme kicks in hard with the slaves calling her mother. (I can't remember whether she called the slaves her children on the show, but that's all she does in the books. Understandably not very politically correct as the freed slaves are of different race than Dany on the show). Mhysa, Mhysa is a reference to Nissa Nissa but these two things are linked together. (Nissa Nissa explains the conversion process as the blade thrusted through her breast will be dragonglass that makes her the Night Queen and a figure capable of protecting the children-slaves for eternity. The Lightbringer is her child, again nodding to the motherhood theme). She also starts to wear icy colors like blue and white on the show. She obtains her army of Unsullied who are described as zombie-like ("absolutely obedient, absolutely loyal, and utterly without fear"). She begins to tout her titles. The show has made such a big deal about her titles, that I believe they too hold a double meaning. Stormborn - sure she was born amidst a storm but it could also hint at her future role since the Others are described as arriving in a snow storm. Unburnt - sure she survived through fire but she isn't the only character who is fire-proof. The Night King can walk through fire aswell. Breaker of chains ties her to the slaves who keep calling her mother nodding to the Maiden-made-of-light -role.

 

Her Mereen arc was my favourite in the books but the show absolutely butchered it. Daenerys failed in Mereen because she was too kind. This is because she had cast Jorah out of her circle and was advised by Barristan Selmy who kept feeding her stories about her mad father. This made Dany afraid of her sanity which prompted her to try and reason with the slave masters. (There's a revealing dialogue in the early drafts of Dance with Dragons where someone asks Dany what she is afraid of. In the finished product she refuses to answer but in the early draft she says that she is only afraid of one single thing: "myself"). Her entire Mereen arc is about Dany accepting her violent dragon side. Accepting that in order to create stability in chaos one has to use necessary force. Her storyline in the fifth book is THE most important part of her story but she show missed the mark by turning Dany into a full-blown Targ from season 2 on. But in the end, what we have to understand about Daenerys is that she is a mother who won't hesitate to unleash her rage and kill those who hurt her children. She will crucify them and burn them to death. This is not madness. It's all about her protective nature.

 

After her Mereen arc the show made her a "give me the Throne!!" -type of a person. From a teleplay perspective I get it. The show has branded itself around the Iron Throne and there is no one left to want it. Cersei wants it and she has it. And since they cut off Aegon Targaryen they no longer have anyone opposing Cersei. So the part fell for Dany. But I'm confident nothing like this will happen in the books because Dany is above all a protective character. She has been given tons of chances to leave Mereen but she has refused to do so out of fear of her children-slaves. This is what Dany is about. If we look at the themes of motherhood and slavery, everything starts to click if we accept that she will try to "break the wheel" by trying to protect her children forever. Daenerys is such a big, bombastic character with dragons and massive armies and will surely have a big bombastic ending. There is only one character as huge as she is - the Night King. This is no coincidence because we are watching the future threat from the north in making.

 

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Just now, TRILOGY said:

That was weird. I understand why they did it (cliffhanger, shock value, etc) but still. :blink:

It felt rushed, they could've made their feelings clear in S7 (for example, an intimate conversation with no mentions of the war) but no resolution yet, more romantic tension, more depth, and the final culmination in mid S8. Show, don't tell @ Tyrion/Davos/Bran. 

yes, so rushed I think that could be a hint that it wont last but I could be wrong. The fact that they made others talk about the romance was one of the worst decisions. Romances that are well developed don't need people to talk about them so often, you see it with the characters.

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Just now, jcmontea said:

I will believe they are doomed when I see it. 

Until then if I didn't know better it looks as if this entire series has been building towards these two people coming together almost as if the series was named after them. 

I think there is more than meets the eyes with the title and it's bot just about these two characters. Also Jon is both ice and fire so there is not as much simetry with the title.

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