Season 8 Predictions?

[MinscS2]

28 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

It's done in all the TV shows, bcause it's the big moment, and I found it very odd that we didn't have that and instead we moved to a sex scene. If I was a shipper I'd be disappointed.

Jon and Dany are in a peculiar spot, where neither thinks this is a good time for a romance so they try to ignore their feelings.
If however they hadn't repressed and tried to deny their feelings and instead acted on them like most people would in a normal, open and mutual romantic relationship, they would've most likely kissed when Jon left for the wall in episode 5, or most definitely they would've kissed on the boat in episode 6. The big moment was their hand holding, the physical intimacy they shared in episode 6.
After this they continue to try and repress their feelings for each other however, and the next time they get intimate together, they are well and beyond the stage where a single romantic kiss would be enough.

Basically either of them or both wanted to kiss in episode 5 and episode 6, but they didn't due to circumstance and uncertainty about where they had each other; going for a kiss and getting rejected would be a huge blow to either of them. In episode 7 they both finally know where the other stands in regards to their romance, and by the time this happens, they both want more than a single kiss. Can't really say I blame them, they've been attracted to each other for months.

[Meera of Tarth]

@MinscS2 I was gonna reply to your posts (in bold) but when I quote your box nothing appears. I was gonna make the effort of erase my part, unbold yours and put in in boxes to make propers replies and also re-tag you ('cause if I didn't do that the boxes would have no poster name and that's not respectful to the poster) in the style of this board but I can't, nothing appears:

 

 

13 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

 

 

Comments in bold.

 

That was gonna be the last time I did that because it's an extremely tedious work, and 'cause I study and work and I'm extremely busy but I read your analysis and wanted to ask you to please quote me in the proper way next time you wanted to quote me (in the phones you have to press Enter twice at the end of each part of the paragraph you want to separate).

So for the first and last time I'll try to do something with it, and quote some parts -doing a lot of tedious editing-

I won't bother to respond again if the quotes are not in the proper style due to the amount of work involved (not saying it's your fault, you might not have known about this)

 

 

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Perhaps you shouldn't stop looking for buildup in episode 4, unless you do that because it fits your thesis that is?
Their buildup continues (and rapidly) in episode 5, and 6.

I have not said I would stop, I don't know what I'll do, but I made it clear that my extensive analysis would be until the episode I had rewatched.

I see you agree that it continues rapidly in epi5,6, which, in fact, justifies that the romance is very quickly one (one of my premises so as not to take it as an organic romance in development, especially since until episode 4 I have not seen nothing more than two strangers that start believing the parts they didn't like from each other, no romance, and at most we could see the start of a friendship).

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  • You're misstaken "forced" for "hints". You can't claim that the show lacks hints of them ending up, just because you refuse to see the hints as actual hints, and instead consider it "forced".
  • Davos' speech in the same epi. Another person reminding us that we should be looking at Jonerys with romantic eyes.
    That speech fills two purposes: 1) To make us (the audience) know that other characters are noticing the way Jon (and Daenerys) are looking at each other and 2) To hammer home the fact that they are looking at each other to the part of the audience that can't see a romantic development even if it stripped naked and danced in front of them.
  • .
    They are quite clearly friends, or at the very least friendly to each other in episode 4. The fact that Dany tells her bodyguards to stand down while she follows Jon into the cave unguarded says it all. Perhaps she doesn't trust everything she says, but she trusts him enough to know that he won't try to harm her by this point. 
    I'm also not sure why you're against the hand holding. Would them kissing on the boat be better and less cliche?

   

 

 

-I have not said the show lacks hints, I said those "hints" are so forced that make the "omance" not organic or believable for many viewers.

-Exactly, to make the audience know there's something going on is precisely what I consider a forced hint, and bad writing WHEN the characters have barely met. If I have to be told by everyone else that there's something there from the start it's objectively forced and/or the script/acting is bad.

-I have not said that there's no trust in episode 4, in fact, I've said the contrary. In episode 4 she starts trusting him and that's not badly done, which is not loving him from a realistic point of view.

 

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You're super-wrong about Dany not liking Jon at all though, the fact that he's defiant but respectful is something she's unfamiliar with, and is one of the reasons she eventually falls for him. She's used to people either submitting to her instantly, or turning hostile. Jon did neither. If Jon had bent the knee right there and then in episode 3, they wouldn't end up falling in love.

The fact that they where starting to be attracted to each other in episode 4 was even mentioned by D&D.
Now you might not see it (or like it), but when D&D says it, Davos comments on it, and many viewers can see it, then perhaps there's actually something too it?

 

 

 

So it's not that she hasn't met other people that has behaved like him? What about Jorah and Daario?

-Exactly, another time when another character comments on it means that it's badly done since they barely know each other. It's like the writers are unsure of the scenes they have written and that's why they are forcing others to tell us. As I said, it's not the way it has to be done.

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Her being more worried about Jon than Jorah isn't really that inconsistent.

She loves Jorah as a guardian and a friend, but by this point she loves Jon a potential romantic partner.
She is also probably full of oxytocin which prevents her from thinking rationally when Jon suddenly announces that he's gonna go on a suicide-mission. She's afraid of loosing him at this point, and it's logical that she is. 

 

And here we disagree due to what I've already explained on my analysis until episode 4.

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This is your interpretation. The fact that you leave out episode 5 and 6 when discussing their romantic development makes me doubt your sincerity though

 

 

I explained to you that I don't leave it out, but that I've not rewatched it. I've read your points above and below this and yes, I see there's more building up there, but it doesn't change the fact that if I miss the first stages of what I consider a properly done romance I can't believe what happens next and/or consider it good writing.

If you doubt of my sincerity there's nothing else to discuss about it, since I've been very open-minded. I've told you that I could even accept that gaze in ep3 or 4 as a "hint" if the romance was developed with many more shared experiences and not rushed but it's not the case. I have no reason to secretly ship them and say otherwise, so I don't know what you are referring to with sincerity here.

 

 

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You said you wanted a "first kiss" between them in another post; if Jon and Dany's relationship had developed like any other relationship where both parts can be open to each other about their feelings, and act on those feelings,  Jon and Dany would've kissed either on the boat in episode 6 or when Jon leaves in episode 5.

 

Actually no, if that was a proper romance they should not have kissed until episode 7 or s8 to make it more believable. it doesn't change the fact that the romance is badly develped in the first stages and extremely rushed afterwards. By your comments I see you might like rushed romances, I just dn't.

 

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Something a lot of people who are against their relationship seem to miss however, is that Jon and Dany have known each other for more than half a season (episode 3-7 out of 7), which means that by the time they have #boatsex, they have known each other for over half a year. Rushed in terms of scenes together? Debatable. Rushed in terms of actual time spent together? No, not by a longshot.

 

 

We can not guess correctly how much time has passed. Baby Sam grows up slowly, while Tommen ages quickly, and ravens fly as quickly as planes. However, I think that Sansa mentioned he had been there for a few weeks, so it’s definitely not half a year.

 

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This is your opinion, and you're entitled to it. I personally believe that you are wrong, and that Kit and Emilia have great chemistry. (which they should have given that they are close friends irl.)
I think their scenes when they are alone together (cave E4, boat E6, dragonpit E7) are amazing.

 

We’ll have to agree to disagree on the chemistry.

 

 

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And she would never behead people like he does. The end result is the same: execution. It's interesting how Dany using fire her way of execution seems to taboo, but no one bats an eye when people are hanged, beheaded, etc.

 

What incompatibilities? 
Dany can be a bit temperamental, but we've already seen Jon's ability to calm her down, and Jon on the flip side can be a bit sullen and broody, and we've seen that Dany's ability to reassure him and make him feel better about himself.
If anything they complement each other very well

 

 

They behave in a very diffeent way. Dany is not a BIT temperamental, she starts burning people alive in the first seasons, and continues doing so many times (khals, even burning slavers alive random ones- without a trial), doesn’t listen to Tyrion when burning Tarly’s…) Meanwhile Jon does his duty with Janos Slynt, his duty following the rules of a Lord Commander. Dany follows her own rules, doesn’t listen to people and never hesitates. Jon does, and it’s hard every time he does this, which is…Janos Slynt and? Well, the ones who actually killed him, maybe someone else? I don’t recall it. The differences are HUGE.

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No you're not, but you are in the minority. 

 

 

I don’t think that a minority of viewers dislike the relationship or how it has been developed.

 

 

[Meera of Tarth]

11 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

If you really think he gave away the ending to his story to some people he doesn't know, then you may just be fooling yourself. And all of this atleast three books before he actually wrote the ending???

This is what people are going gaga over...

http://deadline.com/2017/08/game-of-thrones-spoilers-recap-kit-harington-emilia-clarke-alan-taylor-beyond-the-wall-season-7-hbo-1202152264/

So it wasn’t clear to us at the time, but he did sort of say things that made it clear that the meeting and the convergence of Jon and Dany were sort of the point of the series.

(But he says converge here and yet no one goes gaga over this. I guess it implies a giant orgy if the first converge is meant as "sex"? He is using the word in the general sense.)

Now everything’s converging, and that’s going to get only more so in Season 8 when really, all the storylines come together.

 

Exactly, I coudn't agree more.

[Meera of Tarth]

@jcmontea about the ice and fire thing

This dynastic war is one of the three main plotlines, there's another plotline involving the Others, these kind of superhuman characters, and then there's the exiled Targaryen daughter, who seeks the return or her ancient throne. Why those three main plotlines?

Well of course the two outlying [main plotlines], the things that are going on north of the Wall, and Danerys Targaryen on the other continent with her dragons, are of course the ice and fire of the title, A Song of Ice and Fire.

The central stuff, the stuff that's happening in the middle, in Kings Landing, the capital of the seven kingdoms, is much more based on historical events, historical fiction, it's loosely drawn from the War of the Roses and other conflicts around the 100 years war, although with a fantasy twist.

One of the dynamics I started with was people being so consumed with their petty struggles for power within the seven kingdoms... that they are blind to the much greater and more dangerous threats that are happening far away, on the periphery of their kingdoms.

He mentions the things...not Jon

 

Also, another:

Why your saga is called A Song of Ice and Fire, because of the Wall and the dragons or is something more beyond that?

Oh! That’s the obvious thing but yes, there’s more. People say I was influenced by Robert Frost’s poem, and of course I was, I mean... Fire is love, fire is passion, fire is sexual ardor and all of these things. Ice is betrayal, ice is revenge, ice is… you know, that kind of cold inhumanity and all that stuff is being played out in the books.

http://www.adriasnews.com/2012/10/george-r-r-martin-interview.html

 

[Meera of Tarth]

13 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Yup. The word converge/converging was used twice in that interview, however, shippers only focused on the one "converge" and took it to mean sex, instead of, ya know, the actual definition. The article also talked about many other storylines converging, which I guess selectively doesn't mean sex and relationship.

Also, the books and the show are different. GRRM talked about this while in Helsinki last month. In the books it is planned for Daenerys and Jon to "converge" on the Trident, which would be a battle against each other.

Also, some people need to remember that HBO went to D&D and gave them the books to "adapt". D&D had no idea what these books were about, and they certainly were not such fans that they came up with idea of making the series into a show because they lurved it to bits and were real keen on dissecting the clues hidden within the prose to solve mysteries. Nope. It was a job to them.

And I just want to add that season 7 had the characters still acting book parts that come from other book characters. What we saw on screen was NOT what is planned for Jon and Dany in the books at all. It physically and geographically and logistically cannot happen.

Dany played Aegon for the first part of S7. They even had Jorah do a shortened version of Jon Connington along with Aegon (fAegon). Then Dany went on to play another female character that is not Daenerys by any means.

Jon played Arianne in her TWOW chapters in S7. Then Jon went backwards and started re-playing his own book-Jon arc in ADWD (before the mutiny) when he started working with the free folk and integrating them in to the North and garrisoning castles along the wall with free folk people, etc.

Oh, also adding, the whole concept of Jon (or anyone) mining dragonglass from Dragonstone comes from the Stannis plot when he has Rolland Storm stay behind and do JUST that same thing. THIS IS NOT A JON PLOT!

The "Night King" played Quentyn in the dragonpit scene under the pyramid (yes, the show recycled half of that plot) when they had the NK take Viserion:

They turned the Night King into Quentyn Martell

• "More meat," Quentyn said. Once the beasts were fed they will become sluggish. He had seen it work with snakes in Dorne, but here, with these monsters … "Bring … bring …"
  Viserion launched himself from the ceiling, pale leather wings unfolding, spreading wide. The broken chain dangling from his neck swung wildly. His flame lit the pit, pale gold shot through with red and orange, and the stale air exploded in a cloud of hot ash and sulfur as the white wings beat and beat again.
  A hand seized Quentyn by the shoulder. The torch spun from his grip to bounce across the floor, then tumbled into the pit, still burning. He found himself face-to-face with a brass ape. Gerris. "Quent, this will not work. They are too wild, they …"
• Quentyn heard the sellswords shouting. Caggo was calling for the chains, and Pretty Meris was screaming at someone to step aside. The dragon moved awkwardly on the ground, like a man scrabbling on his knees and elbows, but quicker than the Dornish prince would have believed. When the Windblown were too late to get out of his way, Viserion let loose with another roar. Quentyn heard the rattle of chains, the deep thrum of a crossbow.

  "No," he screamed, "no, don't, don't," but it was too late. The fool was all that he had time to think as the quarrel caromed off Viserion's neck to vanish in the gloom. A line of fire gleamed in its wake—dragon's blood, glowing gold and red.

...and the Plotzee! continues...

Yes, I see there's some inspiration even with that!

I agree there are many references to the books, I can't claim that nothing from s7 is gonna happen (who knows, maybe things in the Citadel? or even Jonerys in a political way..) but it's clear that the season was basically filler.

[MinscS2]

@Meera of Tarth
You can simply use the [*quote]message[*/quote] commands (without the *s) and copy-paste my post. Sorry if you spent a very long time replying, it was not my intention to make you have to work for it.  
 

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So it's not that she hasn't met other people that has behaved like him? What about Jorah and Daario?

Jorah and Daario became enthralled by her without her actually having to do anything, and both sought her attention, approval and affection.
Jon is different; He didn't become enthralled by her and he wasn't afraid to stand up to her. Consider the amount of times Daenerys has requested that a person in power does something; they either agree to do it (and often submit to her in the process) or they refuse, turn hostile and threaten her. Jon refuses her request, but he doesn't turn hostile, and for the remainder of the series, he doesn't seek her attention nor her approval. She's unused to men like him.

 

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Exactly, another time when another character comments on it means that it's badly done since they even don't know each other. It's like the writers are unsure of the scenes they have written and that's why they are forcing others to tell us. As I said, it's not the way it has to be done.

Agree to disagree. I think hints like this are perfectly fine.

 

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Actually no, if that was a proper romance they should not have kissed until episode 7 or s8 to make it more believable. it doesn't change the fact that the romance is badly develped in the first stages and extremely rushed afterwards. By your comments I see you might like rushed romances, I just dn't.

How long did it take before Rob and Talissa kissed? How long did it take before Jon and Ygritte had sex?
Im speaking both in terms of screentime together and actual time passing in the series.
If you consider Jon and Dany's romance rushed, you should consider the above romances rushed as well.
And no, I don't like rushed romances, but unlike you I don't consider Jon and Dany's romance to be rushed. 
 

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I don’t think that a minority of viewers dislike the relationship or how it has been developed.

Someone posted a poll here recently where ~25.000 people had replied to the question if they liked or disliked Jon and Dany's romance: 80% liked it. As for people I know IRL, I know no one who dislike the relationship or how it was portrayed on screen. I know a few people who are indifferent to it, but no one who actually disapproves of it. 
With that said, I don't think their relationship is perfect, I would've liked if there were more scenes between them, but since S7 only had 7 episodes, we as Tormund says, "Have to make do with what we got."
 

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We can not guess correctly how much time has passed. Baby Sam grows up slowly, while Tommen ages quickly, and ravens fly as quickly as planes. However, I think that Sansa mentioned he had been there for a few weeks, so it’s definitely not half a year.

But we can. One season is confirmed to be roughly one year.
Baby Sam and Tommen are exceptions due to changes in actors.
Sansa didn't say that he had been on Dragonstone for "a few weeks", her exact words was that she "hadn't heard from Jon in weeks" - massive difference. 
 

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They behave in a very diffeent way. Dany is not a BIT temperamental, she starts burning people alive in the first seasons, and continues doing so many times (khals, even burning slavers alive random ones- without a trial), doesn’t listen to Tyrion when burning Tarly’s…) Meanwhile Jon does his duty with Janos Slynt, his duty following the rules of a Lord Commander. Dany follows her own rules, doesn’t listen to people and never hesitates. Jon does, and it’s hard every time he does this, which is…Janos Slynt and? Well, the ones who actually killed him, maybe someone else? I don’t recall it. The differences are HUGE

Jon and Dany both kill people they consider their enemies and who try to kill them. 
Dany uses fire because she can and because she's not exactly a good fighter.
If she didn't have dragons and was as good fighter as Arya, you'd see her use conventional weapons instead.
It's true that Dany has killed people who in hindsight were innocent, and she admits to her mistakes. Her black and white view of good and evil/right and wrong is one of her flaws, although she started realizing that there are often shades of grey to peoples actions back in season 3. 

I'm not sure how you can say that she doesn't listen to people though, this is outright false. There are multiple instances when she listens to her advisors: Jorah, Missandei, Daario, Barristan, Tyrion and Jon have all advised her and made her change her mind about something. She doesn't always do as they advise her to do but...isn't that a good thing? 

[Blackwater Revenant]

On 2017-9-2 at 5:17 AM, #teamNightking said:

Cersei takes the south back, dragon stone, Casterly rock and the rest of her losses. She marches on the Neck from the south while the NK is marching from the north. She cuts off any possible retreat for the northern alliance. 

Eh, not really an issue for the Northerners, Cercei can march on the Neck and garrison Moat Caillin, the Northerners can just go around and flank Cercei's army. Brienne knows the way.

 

[jcmontea]

45 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

@jcmontea about the ice and fire thing

This dynastic war is one of the three main plotlines, there's another plotline involving the Others, these kind of superhuman characters, and then there's the exiled Targaryen daughter, who seeks the return or her ancient throne. Why those three main plotlines?

Well of course the two outlying [main plotlines], the things that are going on north of the Wall, and Danerys Targaryen on the other continent with her dragons, are of course the ice and fire of the title, A Song of Ice and Fire.

The central stuff, the stuff that's happening in the middle, in Kings Landing, the capital of the seven kingdoms, is much more based on historical events, historical fiction, it's loosely drawn from the War of the Roses and other conflicts around the 100 years war, although with a fantasy twist.

One of the dynamics I started with was people being so consumed with their petty struggles for power within the seven kingdoms... that they are blind to the much greater and more dangerous threats that are happening far away, on the periphery of their kingdoms.

He mentions the things...not Jon

 

Also, another:

Why your saga is called A Song of Ice and Fire, because of the Wall and the dragons or is something more beyond that?

Oh! That’s the obvious thing but yes, there’s more. People say I was influenced by Robert Frost’s poem, and of course I was, I mean... Fire is love, fire is passion, fire is sexual ardor and all of these things. Ice is betrayal, ice is revenge, ice is… you know, that kind of cold inhumanity and all that stuff is being played out in the books.

http://www.adriasnews.com/2012/10/george-r-r-martin-interview.html

 

Thank you for the video, but not sure I understand what your point is. 

I specifically said "But all the evidence we got this year was that a Song of Ice and Fire refers in large part to Dany and Jon." 

I am not saying the only thing A Song of Ice and Fire refers to is Jon and Dany. But I think it is a big part of it and what you provided does not say otherwise. Are you saying that a song of ice and fire does not refer to the relationship between these two characters? 

Also, not sure what you expect GRRM to say. He can't come out and say yes its about Jon and Dany when Jon is dead right now in his last book, the two characters have yet to meet in the books and are still a whole book away from meeting and he hasn't even confirmed R+L=J. 

[Meera of Tarth]

6 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

@Meera of Tarth
You can simply use the [*quote]message[*/quote] commands (without the *s) and copy-paste my post. Sorry if you spent a very long time replying, it was not my intention to make you have to work for it.  
 

Jorah and Daario became enthralled by her without her actually having to do anything, and both sought her attention, approval and affection.
Jon is different; He didn't become enthralled by her and he wasn't afraid to stand up to her. Consider the amount of times Daenerys has requested that a person in power does something; they either agree to do it (and often submit to her in the process) or they refuse, turn hostile and threaten her. Jon refuses her request, but he doesn't turn hostile, and for the remainder of the series, he doesn't seek her attention nor her approval. She's unused to men like him.

 

Agree to disagree. I think hints like this are perfectly fine.

 

How long did it take before Rob and Talissa kissed? How long did it take before Jon and Ygritte had sex?
Im speaking both in terms of screentime together and actual time passing in the series.
If you consider Jon and Dany's romance rushed, you should consider the above romances rushed as well.
And no, I don't like rushed romances, but unlike you I don't consider Jon and Dany's romance to be rushed. 
 

Someone posted a poll here recently where ~25.000 people had replied to the question if they liked or disliked Jon and Dany's romance: 80% liked it. As for people I know IRL, I know no one who dislike the relationship or how it was portrayed on screen. I know a few people who are indifferent to it, but no one who actually disapproves of it. 
With that said, I don't think their relationship is perfect, I would've liked if there were more scenes between them, but since S7 only had 7 episodes, we as Tormund says, "Have to make do with what we got."
 

But we can. One season is confirmed to be roughly one year.
Baby Sam and Tommen are exceptions due to changes in actors.
Sansa didn't say that he had been on Dragonstone for "a few weeks", her exact words was that she "hadn't heard from Jon in weeks" - massive difference. 
 

Jon and Dany both kill people they consider their enemies and who try to kill them. 
Dany uses fire because she can and because she's not exactly a good fighter.
If she didn't have dragons and was as good fighter as Arya, you'd see her use conventional weapons instead.
It's true that Dany has killed people who in hindsight were innocent, and she admits to her mistakes. Her black and white view of good and evil/right and wrong is one of her flaws, although she started realizing that there are often shades of grey to peoples actions back in season 3. 

I'm not sure how you can say that she doesn't listen to people though, this is outright false. There are multiple instances when she listens to her advisors: Jorah, Missandei, Daario, Barristan, Tyrion and Jon have all advised her and made her change her mind about something. She doesn't always do as they advise her to do but...isn't that a good thing? 

I agree that Talissa's is rUshed but Ygritte's is well done because its developed through several seasons and they share lots of experiences together alone like climbing the wall. They have sex but later they are even more in love .It's  different there when in theory they are in love before and bc people tell us many many times.

As for the minority my experience is totally different. I personally don't know anyone who has liked it  from the forum(apart from people from this thread or others related to jonerys) and same thing outside hese boards. I would have liked to see that poll. Is it still open? Do you have the link?

As for the time well we will have to disagree bc i can't see how these scenes cover six months especially after what Sansa says.

I normally believe that after each season at least some months happen in order to understand how the characters grow up, but the show doesn't make it clear (wikia says each season is a year but that doesn't work with the dialogues and events) (it did in season 1, though). So my assumption for that is that we are told that years have passed in between seasons, like Theon or Yara talking about Theon's past this season, for instance and bc the characters grow up due to that the actors grow up.

My theory is that time is relative in Westeros and we should not nitpick at it because it's already a complete mess. Of course, that can't mean half a year or periods as long as that during the season if we take into account the words of Sansa, Cersei, etc. We can add some weeks more, but not months.

 So when talking about periods of time during a season (saying weeks for instance)  for Sansa might refer to a maximum of 1,5 months (I add a month more to these weeks), considering also that Cersei speaks with the iron bank and she also says something about paying the debt soon (between episode 3 or 4, I don't recall what she says but it's soon or a matter of weeks as well). Furthermore, we also have the wight hunt, that covers several trips around the continent in not more than 48 hours. 

However, in between seasons, some months actually happen; otherwise events from the past could not be referred as "happened many years ago", like Theon's tortures.

[Blackwater Revenant]

On 2017-9-6 at 0:41 PM, Faint said:

Also, now that I think about it, we are pretty much guaranteed that Daenerys beats the Others because she is going to be alive nine months after where we are in the story right now. 

Ah, but you forget, time is a little wacky in D&D's world. A pregnancy can be carried to term ranging from anywhere between a week to three years, depending on what the plot calls for. From what this show has established, it's very plausible that Danny could very well have given birth to a child in episode one, meanwhile, the Others would still be climbing over the rubble of the fallen wall.

[jcmontea]

12 minutes ago, Blackwater Revenant said:

Ah, but you forget, time is a little wacky in D&D's world. A pregnancy can be carried to term ranging from anywhere between about a week to three years, depending on what the plot calls for. From what this show has established, it's very plausible that Danny could very well have given birth to a child in episode one, meanwhile, the Others would still be climbing over the rubble of the fallen wall.

lol. that ain't happening. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

16 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

The "Night King" played Quentyn in the dragonpit scene under the pyramid (yes, the show recycled half of that plot) when they had the NK take Viserion:

They turned the Night King into Quentyn Martell ...and the Plotzee! continues...

Right.

Book: Quentyn travels to the dragons lair to get a dragon for a noble cause.

Show, Vision travels the the Night Kings lair to save the Seven (six at that point) and their precious cargo (the walker).

Book: Quentyn is killed by a dragon with dragon fire.

Show: Viserion is killed by the Night King with a spear.

Book: Quentyn is definitely dead.

Show: Viserion is definitely dead. Later he is raised in thrall to the NK, unbeknownst to the heroes at the frozen lake.

So, the idiot show runners "plotzee!" involves literally inverting or ignoring every story element of that scene.

Sounds legit.

[jcmontea]

17 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Right.

Book: Quentyn travels to the dragons lair to get a dragon for a noble cause.

Show, Vision travels the the Night Kings lair to save the Seven (six at that point) and their precious cargo (the walker).

Book: Quentyn is killed by a dragon with dragon fire.

Show: Viserion is killed by the Night King with a spear.

Book: Quentyn is definitely dead.

Show: Viserion is definitely dead. Later he is raised in thrall to the NK, unbeknownst to the heroes at the frozen lake.

So, the idiot show runners "plotzee!" involves literally inverting or ignoring every story element of that scene.

Sounds legit.

Lol. 

[The Fattest Leech]

32 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Right.

Book: Quentyn travels to the dragons lair to get a dragon for a noble cause.

Show, Vision travels the the Night Kings lair to save the Seven (six at that point) and their precious cargo (the walker).

Book: Quentyn is killed by a dragon with dragon fire.

Show: Viserion is killed by the Night King with a spear.

Book: Quentyn is definitely dead.

Show: Viserion is definitely dead. Later he is raised in thrall to the NK, unbeknownst to the heroes at the frozen lake.

Yup. Pretty much. However, they are only taking the broad strokes such as Viserion is the one in chains that has an arrow (spear) thrown at his neck where a gout of flames follows, and then there is a death, and so on. And the dragon falling into water and "showing up" on the water's edge also comes from another dragon this happened to in the books. Plotzeed! again . When in doubt, mish-mash. If Daenerys and Jon had their own love story in the books, then why did we watch Arianne's, (f)Aegon, Rolland Storm, Quent, and rewind book Jon, and others play out on screen instead?
This is not the only time they have done this, and as a matter of fact, they have done this all along. Sometimes it is smaller details like giving Arya's torment of being teased in the books over to Margery instead. This was back in season 2/3 when Sansa and Margery were out walking around and Marg tells Sansa she was being teased and called "pig nose", or something. This was taken from Arya and reworked into Margery, and still sorta played out with Sansa on screen. It happens a lot!

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So, the idiot show runners

For the record, you said this, not I.

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"plotzee!" involves literally inverting or ignoring every story element of that scene.

Nope. They are not ignoring "every element" as I literally just pointed out. They are remixing these types of details and trying to make it new and their own for the show. The problem is, when it is not organic to the way the entire story for all characters is planned out, it is disjointed and jarring.

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Sounds legit.

Totes!

[BalerionTheCat]

15 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

This is what people are going gaga over...

http://deadline.com/2017/08/game-of-thrones-spoilers-recap-kit-harington-emilia-clarke-alan-taylor-beyond-the-wall-season-7-hbo-1202152264/

Found this, me who is not a kneeler:

So, I was happy that a big step forward was taken in the episode I got to do this season is where he has fallen for her both, you know, emotionally and politically I think. He recognizes what she’s capable of, and is ready to bend the knee as soon as his knees bend.

What he knows of "what she’s capable of"? I thought Jon had learn from Mance (not book but HBO, the scene before the pyre), that a king cannot bend the knee, agree to something, that is not the will of his people. And in no way, the North would agree to be involved in the wars of the South.

[jcmontea]

1 minute ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Found this, me who is not a kneeler:

So, I was happy that a big step forward was taken in the episode I got to do this season is where he has fallen for her both, you know, emotionally and politically I think. He recognizes what she’s capable of, and is ready to bend the knee as soon as his knees bend.

What he knows of "what she’s capable of"? I thought Jon had learn from Mance (not book but HBO, the scene before the pyre), that a king cannot bend the knee, agree to something, that is not the will of his people. And in no way, the North would agree to be involved in the wars of the South.

Is this the same Mance who one of his main lieutenants in the same episode said made a huge mistake by not bending the knee to Stannis? 

And lets be clear about that. Mance not bending the knee to Stannis was a huge mistake, it effectively lead to a Wildling holocaust if we can believe the numbers on the show. 

There were 100k in Mance's army. By the end of season 6 there is no more than what 5k wildlings? 

Way to go Mance! 

[Meera of Tarth]

2 hours ago, Blackwater Revenant said:

Ah, but you forget, time is a little wacky in D&D's world. A pregnancy can be carried to term ranging from anywhere between about a week to three years, depending on what the plot calls for. From what this show has established, it's very plausible that Danny could very well have given birth to a child in episode one, meanwhile, the Others would still be climbing over the rubble of the fallen wall.

Time is the last thing I'd rant about in this show since I've been accustomed to that and I like imagining that some magic makes time not be a simultaneous event for everyone involved. Sometimes it gives us cool surprises such as Tommen growing up, or teleportation. How do we know that characters don't spend days in the ships but then for others it has been a matter of hours? Maybe that would explain the wight hunt... maybe they don't experience the teleportation phenomenon in their bodies while others see that they have teleported.

So I think that time passes quicker in between seasons (offscreen) - I always assume that at least 4-8 months happen (and thus we see how Tyene's hair has gorwn, for instance). And my assumption for that is that we are told that years have passed in between seasons, like Theon or Yara talking about Theon's past this season, for instance.

It would be cool if someone wrote down every evidence of time passing in GOT since s4. I believe there are some contradictions or relative magic moments as well (like Tyrion's or Cersei's trials). Does time in KL expand or contract depending on the characters involved? I think that would be a cool thread. Does it happen as well in the more septentrional regions? That would explain why the WWs are moving so slowly in the eyes of the audience.

As for time, my guesses are that s8 will cover a huge period of time like season 1, although this time it will be covered in less episodes.

[Einheri]

46 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Is this the same Mance who one of his main lieutenants in the same episode said made a huge mistake by not bending the knee to Stannis? 

And lets be clear about that. Mance not bending the knee to Stannis was a huge mistake, it effectively lead to a Wildling holocaust if we can believe the numbers on the show. 

There were 100k in Mance's army. By the end of season 6 there is no more than what 5k wildlings? 

Way to go Mance! 

It was a lose-lose situation for Mance. If he bends the knee to Stannis he will lose respect among the Free Folk, and it's likely that  tens of thousands of them will no longer consider him their leader. And those that do decide to stay with him will pretty much become cannon fodder in Stannis’ army.

Also, 5000 was the number of fighting men and women. There was also a large number of non-combatants among those that made it through the Wall.  There was about 2500 fighters. My mistake.

[jcmontea]

40 minutes ago, Einheri said:

It was a lose-lose situation for Mance. If he bends the knee to Stannis he will lose respect among the Free Folk, and it's likely that  tens of thousands of them will no longer consider him their leader. And those that do decide to stay with him will pretty much become cannon fodder in Stannis’ army.

Also, 5000 was the number of fighting men and women. There was also a large number of non-combatants among those that made it through the Wall.  There was about 2500 fighters. My mistake.

Totally. It was a tough decision. But I think what Tormund is saying is that Mance made that decision thinking about his own respect and his own status as a leader - effectively pride. He didn't think how can I get my deal south of that wall even if i have to bend he knee.

[Blackwater Revenant]

On 2017-9-11 at 11:08 PM, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Remember that GRRM has also stated that Dany's fire immunity isn't that straightforward either, despite her demonstrated (book and show) tolerance for heat.

Actually, in the books, Dany's tolerance to heat is no more than one would expect from that of someone who lives in a warm climate (such as an equatorial region) as opposed to someone from a cold climate (arctic region). The pyre incident, as per GRRM, was a one time, magical event, that was not meant to indicate any special abilities or tolerances attributed to Targaryens.