Jeyne Westerling Pregnancy Confirmed by GRRM

[roosebolton36]

Has it been confirmed by him?

[The Fattest Leech]

On 9/2/2017 at 11:02 PM, roosebolton36 said:

Has it been confirmed by him?

Not that I have ever seen. I just perused the SSM's to be sure.

[kissdbyfire]

No. Unless I missed something, which is totally possible. The only thing I remember Martin saying irt Jeyne Westerling is that the conflicting descriptions of her hips (by Cat and Jaime) were a mistake like Renly's eye colour. 

[Vaedys Targaryen]

I actually for a while subscribed to the theory that Jeyne Westerling had run away with the Blackfish and the girl Jaime met was Eleyna and added a little bit more to it; Jeyne is not pregnant, but she will try to get pregnant with the Blackfish.

Her mother gave her potions so that she wouldn't get pregnant with Robb, but she isn't drinking these potions anymore, which means that she can now freely have children. She will want vengeance for Robb, but she will need the support of the North for that and she can't really do it all on her own and would need one of Robb's children. Enter the Blackfish; Brynden Tully has blue eyes and his grey hair was formerly auburn red, the Tully features. Robb took after his mother and also had the Tully features. If Jeyne can get pregnant with Brynden and the child will have at least some of the Tully features, then she will be able to pass the child as Robb's and receive support from the North.

This was just my theory, though.

[ReturnOfCaponBreath]

Click bait title....

I recently listened to the exchange between lady Westerling & Jaime. I don't see how it could be faked, the mum would have to be in on it and there is too much risk. The exchanges are too natural for it to be fake dialogue from a stand in Jayne I think.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

6 hours ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

but she will try to get pregnant with the Blackfish

I'd read a novella about those two with that plot line.  

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Nope, he's confirmed the hips was a mistake and we know her mother was giving her moontea on the sly. I don't believe she could have got pregnant.  We know from her own mouth that she was trying to and was not yet pregnant to her knowledge at RR right before the RW. And I doubt she'd be shagging the Blackfish to fool the north into avenging Robb, the north does not need a baby to want to do that and she doesn't strike me as anywhere near ruthless enough to shagg an old man whose likely gay and deceive her dead husband's bannermen. 

Also I agree clickbait title. 

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

He didn't confirm the pregnancy, but Jeyne is still alive in the books, as she didn't attend the Red Wedding.

There is one theory that the Lannisters don't have Jeyne Westerling and that the girl going to Casterly Rock with some Westerlander Lords is her young sister, Eleyna.

The theory started after Jaime saw her and her description didn't match the one from Catelyn's POV.

It is also theorized that she is pregnant and that she is in hidding with the Blackfish, when he fled Riverrun, it is believed he took Jeyne with him.

It is kind of funny, the North has a fake Arya and now we have, maybe, a fake Jeyne.

 

[kissdbyfire]

Just now, Shadow of Asshai said:

He didn't confirm the pregnancy, but Jeyne is still alive in the books, as she didn't attend the Red Wedding.

There is one theory that the Lannisters don't have Jeyne Westerling and that the girl going to Casterly Rock with some Westerlander Lords is her young sister, Eleyna.

The theory started after Jaime saw her and her description didn't match the one from Catelyn's POV.

It is also theorized that she is pregnant and that she is in hidding with the Blackfish, when he fled Riverrun, it is believed he took Jeyne with him.

It is kind of funny, the North has a fake Arya and now we have, maybe, a fake Jeyne.

 

As I mentioned above, Martin has already said the different descriptions we get of Jeyne's hips by Cat and Jaime are a mistake. 

[Lord Varys]

Considering that Jeyne would only have learned the truth about her mother's involvement in everything - assuming she ever did - after the Red Wedding, it is out of the question that she is pregnant by Robb. The man left her at Riverrun and it took him quite some time to get to the Twins. You do know whether somebody is pregnant 1-2 months later, unless you have doctor who is a moron, so this would have been news by the time Jaime came to Riverrun months later.

[the trees have eyes]

7 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Nope, he's confirmed the hips was a mistake and we know her mother was giving her moontea on the sly. I don't believe she could have got pregnant.  We know from her own mouth that she was trying to and was not yet pregnant to her knowledge at RR right before the RW. And I doubt she'd be shagging the Blackfish to fool the north into avenging Robb, the north does not need a baby to want to do that and she doesn't strike me as anywhere near ruthless enough to shagg an old man whose likely gay and deceive her dead husband's bannermen. 

Also I agree clickbait title. 

Agree with all of that.

Click bait is bad.  I read this because, despite my best intentions not to let any show spoilers cloud the story, I thought GRRM had confirmed something from the show was a genuine plot point for the novels.

Instead it's just another replay of an old theory that was spun out of one minor inconsistency that was later confirmed to be an oversight.....

[Kytheros]

3 hours ago, the trees have eyes said:

Agree with all of that.

Click bait is bad.  I read this because, despite my best intentions not to let any show spoilers cloud the story, I thought GRRM had confirmed something from the show was a genuine plot point for the novels.

Instead it's just another replay of an old theory that was spun out of one minor inconsistency that was later confirmed to be an oversight.....

To be fair, both of the Westerling daughters are supposedly at Riverrun, but we (via Jaime's PoV) only ever see the one of them. And, let's be honest, it's improbable that Jaime would be able to know which was which. And sisters often are fairly similar in appearance - it's not impossible that the two sisters are supposed to look very similar, and the one Jaime sees isn't actually Jeyne, but her sister who is very similar in appearance and pretending to be Jeyne.

 

--

 

As far as Momma Westerling feeding Jeyne moon-tea and possibly other contraceptive measures/abortificants ... it's entirely possible that they were not effective, or that Jeyne was ditching them.

Jeyne could be pregnant by Robb. If she is, she would've most likely conceived right before Robb left for the Twins and the Red Wedding, but it's not like she'd know she was pregnant immediately - it's quite possible that she learned about the Red Wedding before figuring out she was pregnant, in which case, she'd know that she'd need to keep the pregnancy quiet from anyone who could tell the Lannisters. At that point, she wouldn't be showing much, if at all, yet and she'd probably turn to her family and the Blackfish to help her protect her and her unborn child - Robb's unborn child and heir - from the Lannisters, which would involve keeping the information that she's pregnant by Robb away from the Lannisters. Momma Westerling probably wouldn't be happy about it, but if the Blackfish knows Jeyne is pregnant, Momma Westerling can't force an abortificant on Jeyne, either, at least, not safely.

 

For that matter, depending on the timing, and thus how far along a potential pregnancy might be, if it's early enough, it's likely within the realm of possibility to visually conceal it to some extent via careful tailoring and choices of attire, etc.

 

 

To be sure, Jeyne Westerling-Stark is probably not pregnant and carrying Robb's child. But it's probably technically possible that she is.

[the trees have eyes]

8 hours ago, Kytheros said:

To be fair, both of the Westerling daughters are supposedly at Riverrun, but we (via Jaime's PoV) only ever see the one of them. And, let's be honest, it's improbable that Jaime would be able to know which was which. And sisters often are fairly similar in appearance - it's not impossible that the two sisters are supposed to look very similar, and the one Jaime sees isn't actually Jeyne, but her sister who is very similar in appearance and pretending to be Jeyne.

 

--

 

As far as Momma Westerling feeding Jeyne moon-tea and possibly other contraceptive measures/abortificants ... it's entirely possible that they were not effective, or that Jeyne was ditching them.

Jeyne could be pregnant by Robb. If she is, she would've most likely conceived right before Robb left for the Twins and the Red Wedding, but it's not like she'd know she was pregnant immediately - it's quite possible that she learned about the Red Wedding before figuring out she was pregnant, in which case, she'd know that she'd need to keep the pregnancy quiet from anyone who could tell the Lannisters. At that point, she wouldn't be showing much, if at all, yet and she'd probably turn to her family and the Blackfish to help her protect her and her unborn child - Robb's unborn child and heir - from the Lannisters, which would involve keeping the information that she's pregnant by Robb away from the Lannisters. Momma Westerling probably wouldn't be happy about it, but if the Blackfish knows Jeyne is pregnant, Momma Westerling can't force an abortificant on Jeyne, either, at least, not safely.

 

For that matter, depending on the timing, and thus how far along a potential pregnancy might be, if it's early enough, it's likely within the realm of possibility to visually conceal it to some extent via careful tailoring and choices of attire, etc.

 

 

To be sure, Jeyne Westerling-Stark is probably not pregnant and carrying Robb's child. But it's probably technically possible that she is.

And that is the whole point.  A novel shows the things the author considers important to show, not the total CCTV coverage of Westeros from everyone's POV.  So the number of things that are technically possible is almost infinite but the number of those things that the author has put clues in the text to draw us to is much much smaller.  He is on the record as confirming the hips comment was an authorial slip but even before that the single observation from Jaime when meeting a distraught Jeyne was the slenderest of moonbeams on which to peg this theory.

Her sister isn't mentioned in Jaime's POVs at Riverrun because there was no narrative reason to include her alongside his meeting with Jeyne and Sybel Spicer.  Much as there was no narrative reason to include her young son, also present at Riverrun, in those scenes.  Your whole post is a stellar example of how one unfounded assumption can be built on top of another and the text discounted to construct a version people find more attractive or compelling.  E.G., We have a Cat POV where a happy Jeyne tells us her mother has been making her potions that will aid her fertility with the clear implication that she has been guzzling these in order to become pregnant and we have POVs where it is confirmed that these were in fact intended to prevent her conceiving: yet you muse she might have been ditching these.  The whole theory revolves around ignoring whart we are told and shown because "GRRM's a tricksy bird".  Nope, she never fell pregnant, her mother kept her close to her side at Riverrun (not least because a Jeyne potentially pregnant with Robb's heir could easily be offed by a ruthless Tywin), there was no miraculous escape from Riverrun and identity switch with her conveniently-imagined to be indistinguishable twin.

[kissdbyfire]

Just now, the trees have eyes said:

And that is the whole point.  A novel shows the things the author considers important to show, not the total CCTV coverage of Westeros from everyone's POV.  So the number of things that are technically possible is almost infinite but the number of those things that the author has put clues in the text to draw us to is much much smaller.  He is on the record as confirming the hips comment was an authorial slip but even before that the single observation from Jaime when meeting a distraught Jeyne was the slenderest of moonbeams on which to peg this theory.

Her sister isn't mentioned in Jaime's POVs at Riverrun because there was no narrative reason to include her alongside his meeting with Jeyne and Sybel Spicer.  Much as there was no narrative reason to include her young son, also present at Riverrun, in those scenes.  Your whole post is a stellar example of how one unfounded assumption can be built on top of another and the text discounted to construct a version people find more attractive or compelling.  E.G., We have a Cat POV where a happy Jeyne tells us her mother has been making her potions that will aid her fertility with the clear implication that she has been guzzling these in order to become pregnant and we have POVs where it is confirmed that these were in fact intended to prevent her conceiving: yet you muse she might have been ditching these.  The whole theory revolves around ignoring whart we are told and shown because "GRRM's a tricksy bird".  Nope, she never fell pregnant, her mother kept her close to her side at Riverrun (not least because a Jeyne potentially pregnant with Robb's heir could easily be offed by a ruthless Tywin), there was no miraculous escape from Riverrun and identity switch with her conveniently-imagined to be indistinguishable twin.

To be fair, the fact that the now infamous "hipgate" has been solved, i.e., the discrepancy was a mistake, doesn't mean she isn't pregnant. Mind you, I don't think she is, but still, the possibility does exist. 

[Kytheros]

1 hour ago, the trees have eyes said:

And that is the whole point.  A novel shows the things the author considers important to show, not the total CCTV coverage of Westeros from everyone's POV.  So the number of things that are technically possible is almost infinite but the number of those things that the author has put clues in the text to draw us to is much much smaller.  He is on the record as confirming the hips comment was an authorial slip but even before that the single observation from Jaime when meeting a distraught Jeyne was the slenderest of moonbeams on which to peg this theory.

Her sister isn't mentioned in Jaime's POVs at Riverrun because there was no narrative reason to include her alongside his meeting with Jeyne and Sybel Spicer.  Much as there was no narrative reason to include her young son, also present at Riverrun, in those scenes.  Your whole post is a stellar example of how one unfounded assumption can be built on top of another and the text discounted to construct a version people find more attractive or compelling.  E.G., We have a Cat POV where a happy Jeyne tells us her mother has been making her potions that will aid her fertility with the clear implication that she has been guzzling these in order to become pregnant and we have POVs where it is confirmed that these were in fact intended to prevent her conceiving: yet you muse she might have been ditching these.  The whole theory revolves around ignoring whart we are told and shown because "GRRM's a tricksy bird".  Nope, she never fell pregnant, her mother kept her close to her side at Riverrun (not least because a Jeyne potentially pregnant with Robb's heir could easily be offed by a ruthless Tywin), there was no miraculous escape from Riverrun and identity switch with her conveniently-imagined to be indistinguishable twin.

My bad, I'd forgotten about the Cat PoV mention of fertility potions. It's possible that they actually were fertility potions, not contraceptives, and the Lannisters were deceived. Or some were fertility potions (before a deal with Tywin was reached), but after a deal with Tywin was reached, they were contraceptives. In the latter scenario, it's unlikely that fertility and contraceptive potions taste, smell, and look, the same, so it's remotely possible that Jeyne initially drank the fertility potions, but noticed there was something off in the contraceptive ones and only pretended to drink them. It's also possible that the contraceptive potions lost efficacy and stopped working because Jeyne built up a resistance to them on account of drinking so many of them.

Mind, I wouldn't want to actually try to argue such a point very far, merely that the point exists and cannot (yet) be definitively ruled out.

 

 

As I said, Jeyne probably isn't pregnant. But we don't know enough to definitively rule out all possibility that she might be. We can even go to the point of saying she almost certainly isn't pregnant, but we cannot forget to leave the qualifier off. And that's all my point really is - she probably isn't, but we cannot say definitively that she isn't - yet, anyways. 

[norwaywolf123]

On 3.9.2017 at 5:02 AM, roosebolton36 said:

Has it been confirmed by him?

No, but your headline implies he has. It confused me untill i saw your question.

On 3.9.2017 at 1:21 PM, Vaedys Targaryen said:

I actually for a while subscribed to the theory that Jeyne Westerling had run away with the Blackfish and the girl Jaime met was Eleyna and added a little bit more to it; Jeyne is not pregnant, but she will try to get pregnant with the Blackfish.

Her mother gave her potions so that she wouldn't get pregnant with Robb, but she isn't drinking these potions anymore, which means that she can now freely have children. She will want vengeance for Robb, but she will need the support of the North for that and she can't really do it all on her own and would need one of Robb's children. Enter the Blackfish; Brynden Tully has blue eyes and his grey hair was formerly auburn red, the Tully features. Robb took after his mother and also had the Tully features. If Jeyne can get pregnant with Brynden and the child will have at least some of the Tully features, then she will be able to pass the child as Robb's and receive support from the North.

This was just my theory, though.

My theory is that Jeyne Westerling will somehow end up marrying Jaime Lannister.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/147816-crackpot-jeyne-westerling/

 

[Dofs]

It was confirmed by him as a mistake and Jaime's description of Jeyne was fixed in later editions.

[Stormking902]

Click bait master 

[Makk]

The whole hipgate thing came about because of a theory that Jaime was not talking to Jeyne but rather her sister while Jeyne had sneaked off with the Blackfish or something. I used to like the idea she might be pregnant but since it is pretty much confirmed that Jaime spoke to her, I don't think that she is. Keep in mind that Jaime spoke to her almost half a year after the red wedding which pretty much means she would be at least six months pregnant (since it took a little while at least to get from Riverrun to the the Twins). I think it is inconceivable that they wouldn't be able to tell at that stage.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Hips were a mistake but...

If someone knew what Sybel was up to and was willing to sabotage her efforts, the girl could be pregnant. All it takes is switching out Mama's Special Anti-Fertility tea with regular tea or one that actually did have a fertility potion in it.