sergiosandres

Th dead dragon should not be able to breath fire/ice blast

54 posts in this topic

I believe that viserion can breath what ever that blast is even in death but it shouldn't. Why? Remember the way it die, it was impaled and before bleed the dragon burn itself first so the ice spear actually damage the  internal organ that produce fire or at least part of  the  internal conduct so even if the dragon is able to launch fire it should recieve damage as well and should not be able to fly properly as far I recall that hole do not regenerate or recover so every time it shoot that blast/ray there should be another one form the hole right?( All acording to the TV lore standard)

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The Wall shouldn't be able to stand, but it does. Sam Tarly should have lost weight after his time beyond the Wall, but he's still fat. Dead men shouldn't be able to attack people, but they do. Seasons should not last for years, but this last summer has lasted 10 years. Grey Worm shouldn't have his current muscle mass and deep voice if he was castrated as a boy. All of that happens because of magic.

Edited by 4 Eyed Crow

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Even if is magic. The same magic tell us the dead flesh do not  regenerate (wights) and the same magic tell us the fire generate inside the dragon (viserion death) the show  should be more consistency in that kind details. 

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I'm fine with him breathing ice. He's been ice-wighted. 

And since he's been ice-wighted, he should not breathe fire.

If the writers had ever read any history of dragons within the storyworld they would know that there was at least one dragon who breathed blue fire, and she had not been reanimated by an ice wizard.

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As 'suspension of disbelief's go, this one's not much of a stretch. I understand your point and even agree with the logic (or lack thereof), but really, focusing on the internal workings of a fictional, magical dragon's organs is nit-picky to the extreme, it's points like these that detract from the more glaring issues the show's had since Season 5 and allows people to disregard them all in one stroke. 

I did have the same thought as you and i'm sure many others have as well, but i'm fine with it.

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Because he wasn't dead, and he's not a wight. He's a Walker.

If Viserion was dead, the NK could have raised him remotely out of the water like he raised all the bodies at Hardhome. Like the two they brought to Castle Black in S1. Instead, they needed chains because he wasn't dead, likely mortally wounded, but not dead yet.

Which is why when touched by the NK, he opened Walker eyes, not wight eyes. They're different. Wight eyes are a softer blue, with a matching iris. Walker eyes are sharp, brighter blue/all iris eye. Like Craster's baby. Why go to the extent on the show of making the eyes different, and showing how the Walkers are made via Craster's son, if it weren't important?

It's why he can still breath fire, now blue. (Because the art department thinks it looks badass, and I agree.) 

(And hopefully,) it's why Bran will be able to worg him next season, and he will turn on the NK, like the NK turned on the Children. Bran can't worg the dead.

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Because he wasn't dead, and he's not a wight. He's a Walker.

I don't think that humans or animals can be turned into a White Walker that easily. Or else it wouldn't make much sense for the White Walkers to collect the male babes of Craster to turn them into White Walkers (as we have seen in an earlier season). That's a very lavish and time consuming way of getting enough White Walkers for your army. If the Night King would have been able to turn humans or animals into White Walkers by simply touching them he couth have easily capture dozens of living humans and turn them into White Walkers in a short amount of time (maybe a few weeks).

I think the Night King had to touch Viserion's dead body to reanimate him because he is a very big creature and therefore it's much more difficult to turn him into a wight.

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I agree with ShadowKitteh.

It doesnt seem easy for me that the Night King could capture living human to turn them into White Walkers, i think humans would fight to death.
Also maybe adults are harder to turn that babies or animals, just a thought.

I dont think its about size, its about live-death: alive and deserves it-> touch to turn to white walker, dead -> raised as wight.

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On 9/3/2017 at 8:40 PM, sergiosandres said:

I believe that viserion can breath what ever that blast is even in death but it shouldn't. Why? Remember the way it die, it was impaled and before bleed the dragon burn itself first so the ice spear actually damage the  internal organ that produce fire or at least part of  the  internal conduct so even if the dragon is able to launch fire it should recieve damage as well and should not be able to fly properly as far I recall that hole do not regenerate or recover so every time it shoot that blast/ray there should be another one form the hole right?( All acording to the TV lore standard)

GOT off the rails?  Say isn't so!  I mean, an undead dragon could fly without wings.... and even if it wasn't a dragon in the first place, it could still fly and breathe something to knock down the wall... because Script.

That may be why Martin is out there telling people to watch The Last Kingdom and saying he doesn't watch GOT anymore :D

GOT show producers should be ashamed of themselves that that could not take 5 frakkin books' worth of material and bring it to a coherent end.  I wonder what they think they are getting paid for.

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22 hours ago, ShadowKitteh said:

Because he wasn't dead, and he's not a wight. He's a Walker.

At this point I wonder why the Wights themselves cannot fly and breathe toxic energy at the Wall to crash it down! 

No Wings?  NO PROBLEM!  :D

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To go a bit tin foily, maybe it wasn't ice fire, but a sound wave (visualised for artistic purposes) Dragon scream the equivalent of Joramuns horn?

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I dunno. This is skirting a level of explanation that most authors hate to get into. I love it...writing in such detail I mean. Plus, it's hard to explain exactly what is going on through live action vs written word. Perhaps it will be different in books.

Having said that, I can deal with the fire. What I cannot deal with is the already decaying wings. And the super sonic flight. (Okay it's not super sonic, but it's faster than the others which is garbage). In the show, we have seen that the weits and even WW's are comparable to humans. The Night's King doesn't really count because if someone strong enough to cannon a harpoon with that kind of power then he should be able to over power any human alive with ease.

Oh god, I'm going too deep and things are starting to unravel.

My point is that the dragon shouldn't be decaying so quick, he should not suddenly be 2-3 times faster than a living dragon. Not sure where the blue fire came from (I'm already pretending his chest doesn't have a gaping hole in it, don't push your luck show). It's like being an undead dragon wasn't cool enough and the show had to conjure up some super powers to for Vys. 

 

That may be why Martin is out there telling people to watch The Last Kingdom and saying he doesn't watch GOT anymore :D

Sorry. I can't trust his judgement. I watched that show and dropped it the first episode. That kid had no reason to lie about what that other kid did to dudes daughter. Then he lied again when the priest told him his uncle will murder him. It reeks too much of the current state of GoT with forced plot conflicts and main characters doing stupid and surviving somehow.

Maybe it changes in later episodes? I'm just saying that if you start off with hot garbage like that then I won't give you the chance to show me that your writers have any skill beyond making characters stupid when plot demands it.

Oh right. This is a GoT forum :) . I admit that GRRM has magnificent prose and I love his writing "style". However, I do not at all consider him any kind of authority on Fantasy (and worse Historical fiction). So his opinion on any show is worth just as much as any random person's to me.

Edited by MrJay

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49 minutes ago, the tower of albion said:

To go a bit tin foily, maybe it wasn't ice fire, but a sound wave (visualised for artistic purposes) Dragon scream the equivalent of Joramuns horn?

 

Yes soundwave. With a hole in the side where the spear hit and all the fire shoot out. 

 

But but but. It froze. Yes, the frozen dragon that flies is totally not magic.

 

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Of all the nonsensical shit that goes on, shit that contradicts previously established lore, events, character motivations, worldbuilding, and even basic logic, and you choose the one event that hasn't really had the internal rules established yet (as this is the first undead dragon we've seen) as the one you'll complain about?

Edited by Beardy the Wildling

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Dragons shouldn't be able to fly. Physically its impossible. 

In a world where seasons last for years the environment should not look like Europe's. Biologically the plant life and animals should be completely different. 

There shouldn't be a single family that lasts 8000 years let alone multiple ones. Statistically the chances are less than 0.00%. 

If I can accept those facts that make absolutely no sense according to science, I think I can accept an undead dragon breathing blue fire. 

Edited by jcmontea

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1 minute ago, jcmontea said:

If I can accept those facts that make absolutely no sense according to science, I think I can accept an undead dragon breathing blue fire. 

I can't. Granted I can accept 90% of it. Just not wings with holes that make the dragon faster and able to hoover in place. Things the other dragons can't.

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6 minutes ago, SirArthur said:

I can't. Granted I can accept 90% of it. Just not wings with holes that make the dragon faster and able to hoover in place. Things the other dragons can't.

i get it. visually its more jarring. but the other things i listed are equally impossible even though our eyes don't reject it in the same way. 

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