DragonBlood

Speculation: Cersei, Jaime and Tyrion are bastards of Aerys II

7 posts in this topic

First off, I haven't watched the TV series since Season 4, so please, no spoilers from the series.

 

So, I just finished reading the history of the Targaryens and noticed that:

1. Aerys II lusted forJoanna Lannister.

2. He took some liberties during Tywin's bedding.

3. Months later, Joanna gives birth to twins.

4. Years later, Aerys II goes to Casterly Rock where Tywin holds a celebration for the birth of Viserys.

5. Later, Joanna gets pregnant again, and gives birth to a deformed dwarf, rumoured to have a tail that was later cut off.

 

What if Aeryes took a lot of liberty with Joanna? Tywin would obviously have known of this, but kept silent for many reasons, some being:

1. Tywin was the Hand of the King and his close friend (for a time, before he got mad). This gave him the power to rule, which he would lose if he called on Aerys' crimes. There is no guarantee that Rhaegar would let him rule as he did.

2. Tywin might never have known for sure whether Jaime and Cersei were his own or Aerys', and would never have wanted to. For many years after, he did not have a child, so it would mean he is left heirless.

3. Tywin did not want dishonor to taint House Lannister or his wife, whom he loved. Presumably, she was forced into it, or at least he was convinced she was.

All this would make him more and more frustrated and angry at the king. When he comes with his wife to King's Landing and Aerys publicly comments about Joanna's "teats", that would have been the last straw, setting into motion his plan to eventually betray the king. (I'm guessing he even had a role to play in the abduction of Lyanna Stark, which would cause the Starks, Baratheons, Tyrells and almost all the realm to rebel). This falls in place with his general character; his blood isn't hot, and his vengeance always comes with a slow, hard patience.

 

This explains:

1. Why Jaime and Cersei have incestuous feelings for each other; they have Targaryen blood in them. There is evidence that this characteristic is part of their genes; when Aegon V the Unlikely wanted no more incest in the Targaryen dynasty, he still couldn't stop his son falling in love with his own sister, since they were children.

2. Why Tyrion was born a dwarf, "deformed", with a tail; this has long been a feature in the Targaryen inheritance. Rhaenyra Targaryen was confirmed to have a deformed child, as did many other ancestors of Aerys II. Aerys himself had had many, many deformed and stillborn children with Rhaella.

 

It might be that the typical Lannister features of golden hair and green eyes might have trumped the Targaryen genetics of violet eyes and silver-golden hair.

Thoughts?

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If Twyin was mad at Aerys for impregnating Joanna, I'd expect that he'd quit right away as Hand of the King, since (if I remember correctly) he was more powerful than Aerys at that point. His power comes more from money than from being Hand, so he won't necessarily lose power. 

Tywin had always wanted to groom Jaime into the perfect heir, so I don't think he considered himself as "left heirless". Then again, you could argue that it was just an act.

Maybe Jaime and Cersei got their preference for incest from the Targaryens, but anybody could be incestuous. Beyond the wall, Craster took his daughters as wives, and it's highly unlikely that he's related to the Targaryens. 

Tyrion was rumoured to have a tail, but that is just a rumour and nothing more. In ASOS, Oberyn said that he had nothing in between his legs "but a tiny pink cock". If he had a tail that was cut off, I would expect there to also be a bandage or some sort of scar.

Tywin and Joanna were cousins while Joanna and Aerys were completely unrelated. If anything, Joanna and Tywin would probably have more chance of passing on a recessive deformity onto their child Joanna and Aerys would. After all, the deformities seen in incest don't just happen randomly; they are the result of familial recessive traits popping up. Also, by the descriptions of Tyrion in the books, it sounds like he has a dominant type of dwarfism called achondroplasia, which is either the result of random mutation, or inherited from a parent who has it themselves. Then again, maybe genetics in Planetos are different.

But anything's possible, really, at this point, so you may be right.

Edited by 4 Eyed Crow

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Would be the mother of all plot twists if Joanna and Aerys were actually in love

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On 4.9.2017 at 8:42 AM, DragonBlood said:

2. He took some liberties during Tywin's bedding.

3. Months later, Joanna gives birth to twins.

4. Years later, Aerys II goes to Casterly Rock where Tywin holds a celebration for the birth of Viserys.

5. Later, Joanna gets pregnant again, and gives birth to a deformed dwarf, rumoured to have a tail that was later cut off.

I think you are confusing some things.

1. The wedding took place in 263 AC, but the twins were born in 266 AC.

2. Viserys was born in 276 AC, but Joanna died in 273 AC.

BUT: There was a tourny in King's Landing in 272 AC (because of the tenth anniversary of Aerys's coronation), and Joanna was there.

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On 9/4/2017 at 6:55 PM, 4 Eyed Crow said:

If Twyin was mad at Aerys for impregnating Joanna, I'd expect that he'd quit right away as Hand of the King, since (if I remember correctly) he was more powerful than Aerys at that point. His power comes more from money than from being Hand, so he won't necessarily lose power. 

Tywin had always wanted to groom Jaime into the perfect heir, so I don't think he considered himself as "left heirless". Then again, you could argue that it was just an act.

Maybe Jaime and Cersei got their preference for incest from the Targaryens, but anybody could be incestuous. Beyond the wall, Craster took his daughters as wives, and it's highly unlikely that he's related to the Targaryens. 

Tyrion was rumoured to have a tail, but that is just a rumour and nothing more. In ASOS, Oberyn said that he had nothing in between his legs "but a tiny pink cock". If he had a tail that was cut off, I would expect there to also be a bandage or some sort of scar.

Tywin and Joanna were cousins while Joanna and Aerys were completely unrelated. If anything, Joanna and Tywin would probably have more chance of passing on a recessive deformity onto their child Joanna and Aerys would. After all, the deformities seen in incest don't just happen randomly; they are the result of familial recessive traits popping up. Also, by the descriptions of Tyrion in the books, it sounds like he has a dominant type of dwarfism called achondroplasia, which is either the result of random mutation, or inherited from a parent who has it themselves. Then again, maybe genetics in Planetos are different.

But anything's possible, really, at this point, so you may be right.

Good point about Oberyn. It's still possible that he somehow missed it, though, but it's unlikely.

However, I strongly feel that incest is still a genetic trait of Valyrian birth. Craster took his children for wives, but not his own sister. They're both equally incestuous, sure, but biologically speaking, a brother and sister growing in the same house and having sexual feelings for each other is extremely rare. There is something called the Westermarck Effect, which makes siblings repelled by each other's sexuality.

I still think it's possible, though unlikely.. Let's wait and see.

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On 9/6/2017 at 3:26 AM, The Wondering Wolf said:

I think you are confusing some things.

1. The wedding took place in 263 AC, but the twins were born in 266 AC.

2. Viserys was born in 276 AC, but Joanna died in 273 AC.

BUT: There was a tourny in King's Landing in 272 AC (because of the tenth anniversary of Aerys's coronation), and Joanna was there.

Good catch with the dates. This definitely seems to rule out the twins being children of Aerys.

I somehow thought the tourney was held for Viserys' birth. Weird.

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This is a quote from GRRM himself:

Quote

Dany was most like named by her mother, Tyrion by his father, Jon by Ned.

Tyrion is a traditional Lannister name, so it would make more sense if Tywin was the father. It seems odd that a Targaryen would give his baby a traditional Lannister name, especially since Jaime (whoever his father is) did not even get one. 

Well, I guess you could argue Aerys was taking precautions to not make people suspicious. But I think it would have been enough to go with a generic name like Robert or Jon and, if need be, give some warnings to keep silent.  

Edited by 4 Eyed Crow

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