Dukhasinov

Weis and Benioff are missing the point of Robert`s Rebellion

70 posts in this topic

34 minutes ago, Tagganaro said:

If GOT started like this?  The reason GOT started the way it did was because D & D signed up to do an adaptation of a set of novels they loved (or at least purported to).  They are fans of the source material as much as anyone else, at least in GRRM's estimation who signed off on this.  I think D & D care a great lot about the integrity of the source material and this kind of sentiment is unfair to them, who are stuck essentially writing fan-fiction because GRRM can't and won't finish the damn books.  

I lost all faith that D & D was interested in being faithful the moment they put in 'You want a good girl, but you need a bad pussy'.

As far as I can tell, D & D read up to the end of Storm of Swords, saw the Red Wedding, and thought 'This'll make great SHOCK AND AWE™ television'. Fuck, they even said in early interviews after Season One that 'the good stuff will probably only come three seasons in'. They were only interested in luring people in with SHOCKING TWISTS™ and DARK AND GRITTY™ environments to make the show FANTASY, BUT FOR ADULTS™.

They're just typical TV Network hacks like any other, all they care about is luring in as many idiots (who want to feel smart/faux-geeky) as possible and basking in the monetary returns.

Edited by Beardy the Wildling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

I lost all faith that D & D was interested in being faithful the moment they put in 'You want a good girl, but you need a bad pussy'.

As far as I can tell, D & D read up to the end of Storm of Swords, saw the Red Wedding, and thought 'This'll make great SHOCK AND AWE™ television'. Fuck, they even said in early interviews after Season One that 'the good stuff will probably only come three seasons in'. They were only interested in luring people in with SHOCKING TWISTS™ and DARK AND GRITTY™ environments to make the show FANTASY, BUT FOR ADULTS™.

They're just typical TV Network hacks like any other, all they care about is luring in as many idiots (who want to feel smart/faux-geeky) as possible and basking in the monetary returns.

C'mon now, this is the worst kind of condescending talk there is, suggesting that you have to be an idiot to enjoy the show or if you happen to be a more casual viewer?  Please clarify if I'm misreading that because if I'm not, no point in discussion.  

Yeah, the Dorne stuff was unforgivably awful and the low point of the show.  If memory serves, they initially waffled about including Dorne in the first place and didn't want to, but then changed their minds for some reason and tried to convince themselves the Sandsnakes would be huge hits.  That was a failure on all levels- not only was the writing awful, but the acting, directing, and fight choreography were also awful.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Tagganaro said:

C'mon now, this is the worst kind of condescending talk there is, suggesting that you have to be an idiot to enjoy the show or if you happen to be a more casual viewer?  Please clarify if I'm misreading that because if I'm not, no point in discussion.  

Yeah, the Dorne stuff was unforgivably awful and the low point of the show.  If memory serves, they initially waffled about including Dorne in the first place and didn't want to, but then changed their minds for some reason and tried to convince themselves the Sandsnakes would be huge hits.  That was a failure on all levels- not only was the writing awful, but the acting, directing, and fight choreography were also awful.  

Well, I think it's fine to be a casual viewer, as long as you understand that you're not watching a show of substance. Just another cynical collection of tired fantasy tropes, fun for eating popcorn to and going 'ooh' and 'aah' with your friends. Like Star Wars, shit like that. Turn your brain off and watch the shit-show.

Nah, the true idiots are the ones that think that Game of Thrones in its current state, is 'deep' and 'asks the tough questions', when it is little more than a mixture of fantasy tropes, exploitation film tropes, and a massive budget.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

'And Lady Sandra is a Bolton' - Line actually kept in the final cut of Game of Thrones.

And no-one was surprised.

Haha! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Tagganaro said:

C'mon now, this is the worst kind of condescending talk there is, suggesting that you have to be an idiot to enjoy the show or if you happen to be a more casual viewer?  Please clarify if I'm misreading that because if I'm not, no point in discussion.  

Yeah, the Dorne stuff was unforgivably awful and the low point of the show.  If memory serves, they initially waffled about including Dorne in the first place and didn't want to, but then changed their minds for some reason and tried to convince themselves the Sandsnakes would be huge hits.  That was a failure on all levels- not only was the writing awful, but the acting, directing, and fight choreography were also awful.  

I thought the Sand Snakes were the worst and bad pussy was the lowest moment of the entire show.

What is interesting to me is I have a friend who is watching the show right now for the first time and through 5x08. We have been talking about the season a lot and he pieced together R+L=J after 5x04. As of yet he has not mentioned the sand snakes once. 

I am curious if for most people it was a non event since the actual screen time they get is minimal. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Tagganaro said:

C'mon now, this is the worst kind of condescending talk there is, suggesting that you have to be an idiot to enjoy the show or if you happen to be a more casual viewer?  Please clarify if I'm misreading that because if I'm not, no point in discussion.  

Yeah, the Dorne stuff was unforgivably awful and the low point of the show.  If memory serves, they initially waffled about including Dorne in the first place and didn't want to, but then changed their minds for some reason and tried to convince themselves the Sandsnakes would be huge hits.  That was a failure on all levels- not only was the writing awful, but the acting, directing, and fight choreography were also awful.  

Well, the show truly is stupid. Every plotline is stupid, every character acts stupidly, the dialogue is often simplified to the lowest common point, and things like violence and sex are used to lure viewers and not to serve the plot. And nobody in the cast or crew is actually shy about all of that. I mean, it's only tits and dragons, right? So I'm not sure it can get more stupid than that.

Even in earlier seasons almost every deviation from the books resulted in something incredibly stupid.

Of course it's okay to enjoy the show even if it's stupid. Everyone does that, everyone enjoys things that are stupid. But thinking that GOT is actually intelligent or well written? Now that's something else. At the very least, that means lack of taste, or at the very least lack of exposure to the material that really is good, like The Wire or Breaking Bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

Nah, the true idiots are the ones that think that Game of Thrones in its current state, is 'deep' and 'asks the tough questions', when it is little more than a mixture of fantasy tropes, exploitation film tropes, and a massive budget.

I agree completely, I'd just add that it wasn't much better even in earlier seasons. What was more-less faithfully taken from the books was the saving grace back then, but if you look as just the stuff D&D invented, they were always terrible as writers and showrunners. I mean, Talisa! What makes her better than Sand Snakes? Nothing really, except that she doesn't curse, and of course, unlike them she's part of the storyline that generally makes sense. But everything about her, starting with her identity, is totally ridiculous, not a bit better than Sand Snakes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Tagganaro said:

They are fans of the source material as much as anyone else, at least in GRRM's estimation who signed off on this.  I think D & D care a great lot about the integrity of the source material and this kind of sentiment is unfair to them, who are stuck essentially writing fan-fiction because GRRM can't and won't finish the damn books.

I think GRRM probably changed his estimation about them greatly, considering that he doesn't even watch the show any more. It really is something else, isn't it? Two guys are making a show based on your books (even if still unpublished) and you're not even watching! That tells you everything you need to know about GRRM's opinion of D&D and their "respect" for the source material.

And actually, they never respected the source material. They probably never understood it either.

BTW, I'm fine with GRRM taking his time to finish the books. All I care is that once they're out the books are good, which pretty much means that they're nothing like the show. Who's impatient or doesn't care about the books, can watch this piece of trash that is GOT. To each their own, right? So GRRM really has no reason to rush his writing just so that D&D can mess with the source material some more. They're Emmy-winning writers for Christ's sake, and they know what works on screen and what doesn't: shouldn't they be capable of writing a coherent episode at least, if the entire season is too much for them? After all that bragging about how much they love and care for the books, shouldn't they know to write something that at least resembles an arc for Davos? Or Arya? Or Sansa? Or anyone really?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, StepStark said:

I agree completely, I'd just add that it wasn't much better even in earlier seasons. What was more-less faithfully taken from the books was the saving grace back then, but if you look as just the stuff D&D invented, they were always terrible as writers and showrunners. I mean, Talisa! What makes her better than Sand Snakes? Nothing really, except that she doesn't curse, and of course, unlike them she's part of the storyline that generally makes sense. But everything about her, starting with her identity, is totally ridiculous, not a bit better than Sand Snakes.

Yeah. It's something I've noticed as well. Pod the Sex God, Jaime and Bronn's big gay road trip in Dorne, Loras's gay promiscuity (as opposed to his inconsolable joining of a celibate order in grief), whenever D & D is doing something original and wasn't merely streamlining... yeah, it stinks to high heaven of juvenile fantasy tropes, shitty attempts to be 'edgy' or 'funny', and flat-out lame storytelling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I think we're getting a bit sidetracked, but yeah, I gotta agree with this thread, that they missed the point. Because it wasn't based on a bloody lie, since Aerys executed Rickard, had Brandon strangle himself to death, and then called for Ned and Robert's heads. That's when Jon Arryn went "screw your ultimatum" and the three declared war on Aerys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now