Noble House Scenario - Reach

[James Steller]

Imagine that you're the head of a Noble House (assume that it's been there for as long as the others). You are 18, newly knighted, and unmarried, with the rest of your house consisting only of your elderly mother, Arien, and your 15 year old sister, Dora.

It has been a devastating year for your house. First, your oldest brother was drowned at sea during a storm, along with his beloved, when they were sailing back to the mainland from the Shield Islands. Then your elderly father died of a broken heart when he heard the news of his son and daughter-in-law's death. Then your uncle was killed during a small tourney at Old Oak, and finally, your last brother was killed by Dornish raiders while he was visiting his foster family, the Peakes of Whitegrove.

Now you are the Lord of your house, and while the fields of your smallfolk are prospering, you must act now before good fortune turns even further against you.

Now that you have become the head of your family, it is important to take a wife. Several lords have come forward with propositions:

• Lord Gram Costayne has offered the hand of his only daughter and heir, meaning that your children will inherit two keeps instead of one. While she is your age and comely, she lost her sight in a childhood accident, and would thus require special care for the rest of her life.
• Lord Tobias Grimm offers his younger daughter, once she comes of age. This is after his older daughter had previously been wed to your brother before they both drowned. You found the Grimms to be a surly lot, though he remarks that your father promised him the hand of his heir, which now means you, and he seems quite eager to uphold your late father's word.
• Lord Magor Ball, related to House Tarly by his grandmother's blood and by marriage as well, offers his own daughter, a homely girl, but with two brothers and an older sister married to Lord Varner with five children already, a promising sign. However, Lord Ball is very poor due to a bad harvest and a local pestilence which wiped out a part of his smallfolk. Marrying into this family has been reason enough to turn other houses away, as family honour would mean marrying such debts as well as the girl in question.
• Lord Guilin Florent, a wealthy man, offers his younger sister to be your wife. Though it has been proven that the Florents are powerful and fertile, the Florent woman is ten years older than you and already a widow.
• Finally, Lord Wilimar Fossoway suggested his youngest sister to your hand, partly because he was friends with your oldest brother, and knows you to be a man of honour. However, your own sister urges you to reject the Fossoway girl, whom she despises for being snobbish, conceited, and quick to anger.

In the meantime, your sister is receiving marriage offers as well:

• Lord Ball offers his son and heir, though this would be contingent on you marrying his daughter, and he also requests a generous dowry from you.
• Ser Tolman Norcross, serving his first cousin, Lord Florent, wishes to marry your daughter. It is a daring request for him to make; House Norcross is a newly made knightly house, and Ser Tolman is the grandson of a hedge knight and the son of the previous Lord Florent's bastard daughter. However, you are aware that Lord Florent will not like it if you accept his sister but refuse his cousin.
• Lord Milo Gracefield, an old man, offers to wed Dora to his grandson and heir. He asks for no dowry, only for hand of your mother, to comfort an old man in his final days. It seems a fair request, but he is also a glutton, fondling servant girls young enough to be his grand-daughters when he thinks nobody is looking. You know your mother will wed him if you ask it of her, but would you send your own mother to the wedding bed? Especially one which she will share with this man?

As you decide who your wife will be, a great tourney has been announced, hosted by King Fastred Gardener at Highgarden. All the lords, great and small, are invited to attend and/or participate as they see fit. Honour and chivalry push you towards participating in the tourney and winning renown, perhaps the chance at a better marriage offer, but your mother weeps and wails and urges you not to die and leave her bereft of sons.

What do you do?

Note to administrators: This is purely a hypothetical scenario, not a game. It's meant to illicit thought and discussion rather than awarding a win or loss.

[Canon Claude]

I can see that Tolkien wrote this scenario.

At this point I'm trying to rebuild my family tree and also build new connections (given that I'm about to spit on two of the former ones), so I'll go with the blind heir to House Costayne. My kids will inherit two keeps and I'll care for my wife as best I can.

My sister and mother wed into House Gracefield and I invest in some Tears of Lys for my mother to use on her new husband.

I attend the tourney but don't participate. I'll pretend I've injured myself as a good alibi.

[devilish]

Mace Tyrell is married to a Hightower and his mother is a Redywne. He is a decent Lord who raised 4 magnificent kids. He’s not particularly bright but his heir is and all Tyrells are kind by nature. Why on earth would Leyton turn against his own daughter and his grandson’s interest?

In my opinion, the Lannister will soon show their true colours by turning against the Tyrells and in favour of the Greyjoys. It makes sense to them. The Lannister-Tyrell relations are strained at best and we all know whose got the biggest army out of the two. Chaos favours the Lannisters at this point. The more bickering there is, the more time they have to get their crap together. Kevan needs replacement, the crownlands and the Westerlands need to get organized and with Cersei in loggerheads with Margaery, the Tyrells need to be dealt with.

I don’t trust the Tarly’s though.  Lord Tarly has been living in Mace’s incompetent shadow for too much time. I doubt he appreciated Mace stealing the shine at Ashford. His wife Melessa is probably upset to see her own family being evicted from Brightwater’s keep to make space for Garlan. The Florents have an equal claim to the Reach as the Tyrells and this land grab adds insult to injury. Randyll might have expected Mace to give the keep to his own wife (Melessa had remained loyal + Randyll had served the Reach well) so this might have been a real kick at the teeth. If the lions offer the Reach in exchange of his support then I bet he will consider it.
 
 

[Lady Lia]

I would assess my potential brides as follows:

-The Costayne heiress is an enormous prize, since our children will end up inheriting both keeps and lands, and in the meantime her father will be my loyal ally since he has no sons and I stand as a son to him.

-Lord Grimm is either ill-tempered by nature or deliberately annoying me, and further is trying to bully me into paying a debt that doesn't in fact exist. He's not the sort of father-in-law I want to deal with. Besides, his daughter is too young to marry, and I need to produce an heir soon.

-I sympathise with Lord Ball, but I can't afford to pay his debts for him.

-If Lord Fossoway is a man of honour I'll gladly accept his friendship, but even if my sister is wrong about the lady's disposition, he's not offering me anything to compete with an heiress.

-Lord Florent's sister is the only other one I might consider. Her age isn't important as she has plenty more childbearing years left, and Lord Florent is a very valuable ally. But ultimately, that second lordship is just too tempting.

So, I betroth myself to the future Lady Costayne and ask her father to allow the wedding to take place at once. I assume she already has a maid to see to her needs, but if not I arrange for one as well as a man-at-arms to be her personal guard and guide around her new home. This is a feudal society, labour is cheap.

My sister's marriage is trickier. Lord Ball's heir is off the table since I declined his daughter. Lord Gracefield's offer is tempting, but I won't press my mother to wed; I'll ask her if she's interested, since for all I know she'd be happy to have her own establishment to run now I'm married, and I imagine Lord Gracefield will be bothering his servant girls rather than her. If she agrees, the double wedding can take place once Dora comes of age, giving my wife plenty of time to learn from my mother and adjust to running my household.

If she disagrees, I'll have a chat with Lord Florent. If he's so interested in marrying off his cousin, perhaps he'll be willing to sweeten the pot with some lands and income, or a good position for the young man. If he doesn't come up with a good enough offer, there's no rush; Dora's still young and I can wait for other suitors to show up.

I attend the tourney with my family, but don't compete. I've just made myself a very fine marriage, so I don't need to show off, but it's a good chance for Dora. If anyone asks why I'm not competing, I swore a sacred oath to my grieving mother, and how can I break that and call myself a man of honour?

[Floki of the Ironborn]

Frankly, I think I'll go with House Costayne too. The blind girl will need to be treated gently, but that's not a problem.

Also, the whole thing with the tourney isn't as black-and-white as it seems. If it's only just been announced, then it will be quite some time before they are prepared to actually put it on. They'd generally want to let people know at least a month in advance, given how big the Reach is and how everyone seems to have been invited. So I should have a decent amount of time to get married and ideally get my wife pregnant before the tourney. Just in case, though, I won't participate, but I'll take my sister to the tourney with me so she might attract better marriage proposals rather than the ones that are currently being offered. None of them are very appealing. Plus I won't make my mother remarry just for a more elevated status.

[James Steller]

15 hours ago, devilish said:

Mace Tyrell is married to a Hightower and his mother is a Redywne. He is a decent Lord who raised 4 magnificent kids. He’s not particularly bright but his heir is and all Tyrells are kind by nature. Why on earth would Leyton turn against his own daughter and his grandson’s interest?

In my opinion, the Lannister will soon show their true colours by turning against the Tyrells and in favour of the Greyjoys. It makes sense to them. The Lannister-Tyrell relations are strained at best and we all know whose got the biggest army out of the two. Chaos favours the Lannisters at this point. The more bickering there is, the more time they have to get their crap together. Kevan needs replacement, the crownlands and the Westerlands need to get organized and with Cersei in loggerheads with Margaery, the Tyrells need to be dealt with.

I don’t trust the Tarly’s though.  Lord Tarly has been living in Mace’s incompetent shadow for too much time. I doubt he appreciated Mace stealing the shine at Ashford. His wife Melessa is probably upset to see her own family being evicted from Brightwater’s keep to make space for Garlan. The Florents have an equal claim to the Reach as the Tyrells and this land grab adds insult to injury. Randyll might have expected Mace to give the keep to his own wife (Melessa had remained loyal + Randyll had served the Reach well) so this might have been a real kick at the teeth. If the lions offer the Reach in exchange of his support then I bet he will consider it.
 
 

Pretty sure you answered the wrong topic, friend.

[Universal Sword Donor]

I burn everything down and then sail to the shield islands and burn down everything.

Then onto Dorne, where I learn to play the lute and dying of thirst walking around wondering why everything is so hot.

[Universal Sword Donor]

10 hours ago, James Steller said:

Pretty sure you answered the wrong topic, friend.

He's just roleplaying giving an impassioned speech.

[James Steller]

1 hour ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

He's just roleplaying giving an impassioned speech.

Heh.

[Equilibrium]

This one is pretty straightforward.

Marry the blind girl, sight is not the most important attribute in a women, castles she inherits are. 

Marry the sister to the Gracefield, old man likes a good bite and to pinch a maid, so what, it's not like he is violet psychopath. Besides it's not on me, mother is doing that for the sister's future.

As mom is shipped away and normally one would presume the odds are against two brothers dying at a tourney in such short time, it would make sense to joust a bit, but I will nevertheless decide against it, such a streak of tragedy is enough to persuade me it is in my best interest to avoid horsepowered lances launched my way for the foreseeable future.

 

[Dorian Martell's son]

Hire a faceless man to kill your rivals, take power, breed. Why are all these forum games the same? 

[1000th Lord Commander]

I marry the blind girl. She's pretty, and young. So what if she requires a couple of extra maidservents?

The problem is that leaves me nowhere to marry my sister off that doesn't come with strings attached. I delay on my sisters match, hoping for a better offer. 

As much as I hate to admit it, my mother is right. I am the sole man of the house, and should focus my efforts on siring the next generation. I attend, but do not participate 

[elder brother jonothor dar]

She gave him back the ring. "I cannot return to Coldmoat empty-handed. They will say the Red Widow has lost her bite, that she was too weak to do justice, that she could not protect her smallfolk. You do not understand, ser."

"I might." Better than you know. "I remember once some little lord in the stormlands took Ser Arlan into service, to help him fight some other little lord. When I asked the old man what they were fighting over, he said, 'Nothing, lad. It's just some pissingcontest.' "

Lady Rohanne gave him a shocked look, but could sustain it no more than half a heartbeat before it turned into a grin. "I have heard a thousand empty courtesies in my time, but you are the first knight who ever said pissing in my presence." Her freckled face went somber. "Those pissing contests are how lords judge one another's strength, and woe to any man who shows his weakness. A woman must needs piss twice as hard, if she hopes to rule. And if that woman should happen to be small . . . Lord Stackhouse covets my Horseshoe Hills, Ser Clifford Conklyn has an old claim to Leafy Lake, those dismal Durwells live by stealing cattle . . . and beneath mine own roof I have the Longinch. Every day I wake wondering if this might be the day he marries me by force." Her hand curled tight around her braid, as hard as if it were a rope, and she was dangling over a precipice. "He wants to, I know. He holds back for fear of my wroth, just as Conklyn and Stackhouse and the Durwells tread carefully where the Red Widow is concerned. If any of them thought for a moment that I had turned weak and soft . . ."

A boring scenario with no consequence of note.  Not a fan of these threads but you seem to forget this is a feudal society, hell Jorah gets to marry above his station due to winning a tourney.

Not participating would ask questions hiding behind women's skirts would not improve the situation, martial prowess is up there with wealth and rank in their world.

[TMIFairy]

I will go with the flow

1 - I marry the Costayne Heiress. This means that TWO of my children get something to inherit, a rare thing! And I wonder what made Lord Costayne offer such an attractive match to me.

2 - I keep my mother at home, unless she very much wants to be married off. With a blind wife I need a pair of eyes to help run the keep. Hopefully they will get along ...

3 - I decline to participate in the tourney. I can claim superstition, period of mourning or something.

4 - as to my sister - by elimination I am left with the Norcross offer only. However, it is not that bad as I get a tie-in with the Florents, with the current lord being fond of his cousin. With my gain in power/influence due to my Costayne match hopefully I can get a good deal for lil' sis out of the Florents, like Tolman getting a keep first (somebody suggested this before me, I know ).

 

[Jaehaerys Tyrell]

On 06/09/2017 at 4:49 AM, James Steller said:

Imagine that you're the head of a Noble House (assume that it's been there for as long as the others). You are 18, newly knighted, and unmarried, with the rest of your house consisting only of your elderly mother, Arien, and your 15 year old sister, Dora.

It has been a devastating year for your house. First, your oldest brother was drowned at sea during a storm, along with his beloved, when they were sailing back to the mainland from the Shield Islands. Then your elderly father died of a broken heart when he heard the news of his son and daughter-in-law's death. Then your uncle was killed during a small tourney at Old Oak, and finally, your last brother was killed by Dornish raiders while he was visiting his foster family, the Peakes of Whitegrove.

Now you are the Lord of your house, and while the fields of your smallfolk are prospering, you must act now before good fortune turns even further against you.

Now that you have become the head of your family, it is important to take a wife. Several lords have come forward with propositions:

• Lord Gram Costayne has offered the hand of his only daughter and heir, meaning that your children will inherit two keeps instead of one. While she is your age and comely, she lost her sight in a childhood accident, and would thus require special care for the rest of her life.
• Lord Tobias Grimm offers his younger daughter, once she comes of age. This is after his older daughter had previously been wed to your brother before they both drowned. You found the Grimms to be a surly lot, though he remarks that your father promised him the hand of his heir, which now means you, and he seems quite eager to uphold your late father's word.
• Lord Magor Ball, related to House Tarly by his grandmother's blood and by marriage as well, offers his own daughter, a homely girl, but with two brothers and an older sister married to Lord Varner with five children already, a promising sign. However, Lord Ball is very poor due to a bad harvest and a local pestilence which wiped out a part of his smallfolk. Marrying into this family has been reason enough to turn other houses away, as family honour would mean marrying such debts as well as the girl in question.
• Lord Guilin Florent, a wealthy man, offers his younger sister to be your wife. Though it has been proven that the Florents are powerful and fertile, the Florent woman is ten years older than you and already a widow.
• Finally, Lord Wilimar Fossoway suggested his youngest sister to your hand, partly because he was friends with your oldest brother, and knows you to be a man of honour. However, your own sister urges you to reject the Fossoway girl, whom she despises for being snobbish, conceited, and quick to anger.

In the meantime, your sister is receiving marriage offers as well:

• Lord Ball offers his son and heir, though this would be contingent on you marrying his daughter, and he also requests a generous dowry from you.
• Ser Tolman Norcross, serving his first cousin, Lord Florent, wishes to marry your daughter. It is a daring request for him to make; House Norcross is a newly made knightly house, and Ser Tolman is the grandson of a hedge knight and the son of the previous Lord Florent's bastard daughter. However, you are aware that Lord Florent will not like it if you accept his sister but refuse his cousin.
• Lord Milo Gracefield, an old man, offers to wed Dora to his grandson and heir. He asks for no dowry, only for hand of your mother, to comfort an old man in his final days. It seems a fair request, but he is also a glutton, fondling servant girls young enough to be his grand-daughters when he thinks nobody is looking. You know your mother will wed him if you ask it of her, but would you send your own mother to the wedding bed? Especially one which she will share with this man?

As you decide who your wife will be, a great tourney has been announced, hosted by King Fastred Gardener at Highgarden. All the lords, great and small, are invited to attend and/or participate as they see fit. Honour and chivalry push you towards participating in the tourney and winning renown, perhaps the chance at a better marriage offer, but your mother weeps and wails and urges you not to die and leave her bereft of sons.

What do you do?

Note to administrators: This is purely a hypothetical scenario, not a game. It's meant to illicit thought and discussion rather than awarding a win or loss.

I’d accept the hand of Lord Costayne’s daughter without question. Three Towers can pass to my second son, and would greatly increase my House’s fortunes. I don’t care that she’s blind, I’d take good care of her.

I would think the agreement between my lord father and Lord Grimm would be irrelevant when my father is dead and the agreement was about two other individuals. 

The Balls are poor, and the Florents and Fossoways simply don’t make as good an offer as the Costaynes. 

I’d choose Lord Gracefield’s heir for my sister to marry, but if my lady mother isn’t absolutely comfortable marrying him I’ll just pay a dowry. It’s not like my House has to pay any other dowries, and soon we’ll have the wealth of Three Towers. 

I wouldn’t take any serious risks with the tourney. I’d rather secure the future of my House and risk looking a bit of a coward.