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Venus414

Renlys death revisited

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What if it was actually Cat and/or Baelish that killed Renly? What do I mean? 

1. People whispered it was Catelyn that killed Renly... 

"Have you ever considered that too many answers are the same as no answer at all? My informers are not always as highly placed as we might like. When a king dies, fancies sprout like mushrooms in the dark. A groom says that Renly was slain by a knight of his own Rainbow Guard. A washerwoman claims Stannis stole through the heart of his brother's army with his magic sword. Several men-at-arms believe a woman did the fell deed, but cannot agree on which woman. A maid that Renly had spurned, claims one. A camp follower brought in to serve his pleasure on the eve of battle, says a second. The third ventures that it might have been the Lady Catelyn Stark."

2. She had motive..she was panicking the brothers would fight each other instead of the real enemy, and told them so.

Catelyn said, "Let us hope there will be no battle. We three share a common foe who would destroy us all."

---

"This is folly," Catelyn said sharply. "Lord Tywin sits at Harrenhal with twenty thousand swords. The remnants of the Kingslayer's army have regrouped at the Golden Tooth, another Lannister host gathers beneath the shadow of Casterly Rock, and Cersei and her son hold King's Landing and your precious Iron Throne. You each name yourself king, yet the kingdom bleeds, and no one lifts a sword to defend it but my son."

3. She was there.. 

4. Cortnay Penrose sounded more like he jumped or was pushed.

5. Mel used smoke, mirrors and powders to trick people (could she have faked a shadow baby before Davos?) also this: 

"Maester Cressen was your faithful servant. She slew him, as she killed Ser Cortnay Penrose and your brother Renly." 

"Now you sound a fool," the king complained. "She saw Renly's end in the flames, yes, but she had no more part in it than I did. The priestess was with me. Your Devan would tell you so. Ask him, if you doubt me. She would have spared Renly if she could. It was Melisandre who urged me to meet with him, and give him one last chance to amend his treason. And it was Melisandre who told me to send for you when Ser Axell wished to give you to R'hllor." He smiled thinly. "Does that surprise you?"

6. Cat said "the kings shadow"..I think she meant Renlys.. 

A Clash of Kings - Catelyn IV

Renly laughed. "Tell me, my lady, do direwolves vote on who should lead the pack?" Brienne brought the king's gauntlets and greathelm, crowned with golden antlers that would add a foot and a half to his height. "The time for talk is done. Now we see who is stronger." Renly pulled a lobstered green-and-gold gauntlet over his left hand, while Brienne knelt to buckle on his belt, heavy with the weight of longsword and dagger.

"I beg you in the name of the Mother," Catelyn began when a sudden gust of wind flung open the door of the tent. She thought she glimpsed movement, but when she turned her head, it was only the king's shadow shifting against the silken walls. She heard Renly begin a jest, his shadow moving, lifting its sword, black on green, candles guttering, shivering, something was queer, wrong, and then she saw Renly's sword still in its scabbard, sheathed still, but the shadowsword . . .

"Cold," said Renly in a small puzzled voice, a heartbeat before the steel of his gorget parted like cheesecloth beneath the shadow of a blade that was not there. He had time to make a small thick gasp before the blood came gushing out of his throat.

 

7. Cat loses time in other parts of the story ex: sitting with Hoster & looking out the window 

8. Brienne -

"There was no one in the tent but you and Lady Stark. Do you claim that old woman could cut through hardened steel?"
"There was a shadow. I know how mad it sounds, but . . . I was helping Renly into his armor, and the candles blew out and there was blood everywhere. It was Stannis, Lady Catelyn said. His . . . his shadow. I had no part in it, on my honor . . ."

9. Glass candles, glamouring, and faceless men Do exist in the story for certain. Are glass candles messing with Cat and Briennes heads ? Did Baelish hire a FM? more likely than a magical shadow baby that Stan made without his real consent, right? 

10. Baelish had motive too: Convenient it frees up Marge to marry Joff ..I mean Tommen. So Baelish could treat for the Lannisters and be rewarded Harrenhal.

11. Stannis woke up with "clean hands" 

"Tell me, Alayne—which is more dangerous, the dagger brandished by an enemy, or the hidden one pressed to your back by someone you never even see?"

 

 

 

Edited by Venus414
Added quotations

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I find it unlikely that Littlefinger or Catelyn killed Renly. If Cat killed Renly herself, even if she flipped out and does not remember, then surely Brienne would have noticed. Littlefinger was not in Highgarden during that time.

Either of them could have hired an assassin. But I think Cat wouldn't have been so off-guard because she would have known it was coming. Also, I don't think a human assassin, even a FM assassin, could have just killed Renly in full view of Cat and Brienne and go practically unnoticed. A human assassin would also probably be smart enough to try to kill Cat and Brienne too rather than let them live to tell about it.

As for the glass candles, I don't recall messing with people's heads as one of their uses. They could enter people's dreams and maybe mess with the dreams, but Cat was awake.

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We also have a first hand account from Davos and also his questions to Melisandre

Quote

Together they tied off the sail as the boat rocked beneath them. As Davos unshipped the oars and slid them into the choppy black water, he said, "Who rowed you to Renly?"

"There was no need," she said. "He was unprotected. But here . . . this Storm's End is an old place. There are spells woven into the stones. Dark walls that no shadow can pass—ancient, forgotten, yet still in place."

 

Quote

 

Davos raised a hand to shield his eyes, and his breath caught in his throat. Melisandre had thrown back her cowl and shrugged out of the smothering robe. Beneath, she was naked, and huge with child. Swollen breasts hung heavy against her chest, and her belly bulged as if near to bursting. "Gods preserve us," he whispered, and heard her answering laugh, deep and throaty. Her eyes were hot coals, and the sweat that dappled her skin seemed to glow with a light of its own. Melisandre shone.

Panting, she squatted and spread her legs. Blood ran down her thighs, black as ink. Her cry might have been agony or ecstasy or both. And Davos saw the crown of the child's head push its way out of her. Two arms wriggled free, grasping, black fingers coiling around Melisandre's straining thighs, pushing, until the whole of the shadow slid out into the world and rose taller than Davos, tall as the tunnel, towering above the boat. He had only an instant to look at it before it was gone, twisting between the bars of the portcullis and racing across the surface of the water, but that instant was long enough.

He knew that shadow. As he knew the man who'd cast it.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that it was Melisandre (and Stannis) that killed Renly.

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7 hours ago, 4 Eyed Crow said:

I find it unlikely that Littlefinger or Catelyn killed Renly. If Cat killed Renly herself, even if she flipped out and does not remember, then surely Brienne would have noticed. Littlefinger was not in Highgarden during that time.

Either of them could have hired an assassin. But I think Cat wouldn't have been so off-guard because she would have known it was coming. Also, I don't think a human assassin, even a FM assassin, could have just killed Renly in full view of Cat and Brienne and go practically unnoticed. A human assassin would also probably be smart enough to try to kill Cat and Brienne too rather than let them live to tell about it.

As for the glass candles, I don't recall messing with people's heads as one of their uses. They could enter people's dreams and maybe mess with the dreams, but Cat was awake.

Well that is kindof where I'm at. Did Baelish hire an assassin. It was dark and they saw shadows. Also, glamors and reflective armor (like that if the Others) exists in the story. I'm not sure, but I wonder if the angle of the lighting could be a factor.  I'm not sure the assassin would kill them too without good reason, orders, or payment. All it would take for the theory to work is evidence of communication between Baelish and Mel, and I don't.We Do have a red temple in Braavos. 

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5 hours ago, Makk said:

We also have a first hand account from Davos and also his questions to Melisandre

 

There is no doubt in my mind that it was Melisandre (and Stannis) that killed Renly.

Lol. I read that too. And I explained my thoughts on it in the OP.

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1 hour ago, Venus414 said:

Well that is kindof where I'm at. Did Baelish hire an assassin. It was dark and they saw shadows. Also, glamors and reflective armor (like that if the Others) exists in the story. I'm not sure, but I wonder if the angle of the lighting could be a factor.  I'm not sure the assassin would kill them too without good reason, orders, or payment. All it would take for the theory to work is evidence of communication between Baelish and Mel, and I don't.We Do have a red temple in Braavos. 

So LF conspiring with Mel to kill Renly?

I don't think it's ever suggested that LF and Mel have met. His great-grandfather was from Braavos, but LF was a 3rd/4th generation Westerosi, likely to have never been there. We never read anything about Mel being in Braavos, but who knows what she'd been up to in her lifetime? Glass candles theoretically allow them to communicate without ever meeting in person, but as far as we know, neither of them have a glass candle.

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4 hours ago, 4 Eyed Crow said:

So LF conspiring with Mel to kill Renly?

I don't think it's ever suggested that LF and Mel have met. His great-grandfather was from Braavos, but LF was a 3rd/4th generation Westerosi, likely to have never been there. We never read anything about Mel being in Braavos, but who knows what she'd been up to in her lifetime? Glass candles theoretically allow them to communicate without ever meeting in person, but as far as we know, neither of them have a glass candle.

Mel has visions, that goes without saying. I was thinking Baelish Must have one to be so well informed and ahead of the game.. before PJ implied communication between Baelish and Mance in his recent catspaw vids. He explains that better than I do! I know how controversial he is.

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