u.s. politics: a cruel and unusual government

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

36 minutes ago, Lew Theobald said:

No. I understood it.  And what I got from it is that you think Trump is doing a bad job and should be voted out in 3 years.  The part I disagreed with is the idea that Trump would do an even better job with Federal judges looking over his shoulder second-guessing his every move.

You seem to be operating under the mistaken assumption that once elected a President should not be under the scrutiny of Federal Courts.  That elections are the exclusive remedy for an overstep of power by the President.  

One of the purposes of the Federal Courts is to reign in the Government when it oversteps its authority.  What Trump is attempting to do with his travel bans is stepping beyond the authority granted to Trump under the US Constitution.  That's not a "wait till the next election" event.  It is a "stop it now" event.

[aceluby]

36 minutes ago, Lew Theobald said:

No. I understood it.  And what I got from it is that you think Trump is doing a bad job and should be voted out in 3 years.  The part I disagreed with is the idea that Trump would do an even better job with Federal judges looking over his shoulder second-guessing his every move.

Yeah, fuck checks and balances!

[aceluby]

Just now, Lew Theobald said:

By definition, everything Trump does is evil, wrong, racist, and bad, because every act he commits stems from his evil, wrong, racist, bad mind.  Presumably, we need a ruling from SCOTUS that it is unconstitutional for him to ever do anything ever again.

Order for strawman.  Order for strawman. Is there a strawman here?  Your order is up....

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I think the point that the troll is not getting is that Trump has taken an action that has no net effect on preventing a terrorist attack in this country while at the same time increasing the likelihood of terrorist recruiting around the world, thus making his action a net negative for the security of this country.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

8 minutes ago, Lew Theobald said:

Funny that it seems that way to you.  Because I certainly said nothing of the sort.

It is not necessarily a "stop it now" event, and it is not clear that it exceeds his authority under the US Constitution.  SCOTUS does not seem too certain about that, anyhow.  But I expect they'll look into it.

A better example of a "stop it now" event would be an event that, if not stopped, would prevent the free and unfettered operation of the democratic process.  In such cases, waiting for the next election might not be an adequate remedy, for obvious reasons.

Generally speaking, the checks and balances of the Constitution were written with such considerations in mind.  

No, you implied it but didn't say it.  You are very good with implication.  Then you jump up and down pointing out that you never explicitly said what you implied.  I will grant you that you didn't explicitly say "elections are the remedy".  But you continue to strongly push that implication.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Mr. Theobald,

Then please be more explicit with your statements.  Are you not strongly implying that the proper remedy here is to just let Trump do his thing and if we don't like it make sure someone else wins the Presidency in 2020?

[OldGimletEye]

Today in: Pity The Billionaire

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/09/12/billionaire-investor-schwarzman-i-was-accused-by-people-of-being-a-nazi/

Quote

 Billionaire investor Stephen Schwarzman said Tuesday that President Trump's former business councils crumbled under "astonishing" pressure after violent protests by white supremacists in Charlottesville.

According to this clown, Obama was planning to invade Poland, lookin for some lebensraum evidently, because he suggested raising taxes.

Now cries his eyes out over being compared to a Nazi. Boo hoo.

Today In:
Expansionary austerity. Or when conservatives fuck you over, man they really fuck you over.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w23789

Quote

The Great Recession and the Global Financial Crisis have left many developed countries with low interest rates and high levels of public debt, thus limiting the ability of policymakers to fight the next recession. Whether new fiscal stimulus programs would be jeopardized by these already heavy public debt burdens is a central question. For a sample of developed countries, we find that government spending shocks do not lead to persistent increases in debt-to-GDP ratios or costs of borrowing, especially during periods of economic weakness. Indeed, fiscal stimulus in a weak economy can improve fiscal sustainability along the metrics we study. Even in countries with high public debt, the penalty for activist discretionary fiscal policy appears to be small.

 

Also,
http://www.frbsf.org/economic-research/publications/economic-letter/2017/september/disappointing-facts-about-black-white-wage-gap/

Quote

The most important fact highlighted by our decomposition is that a significant portion of the wage gap between blacks and whites is not traceable to differences in easily measured characteristics, but rather is unexplained within our model (red bars).

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 minute ago, Lew Theobald said:

Who is Adam, and what is his argument?  It might be a good one, for all I know.

It might exceed the authority of the POTUS, under the US Constitution and/or established caselaw. Though I doubt many people would have had that opinion had Obama done it.  But if it exceeds his authority, it should be stopped.

POTUS's (including Trump, to an extent) have been making war for years without authorization of Congress, and I'm not too happy about it; though I don't see it ever changing either.   Border security issues seem like small potatoes, compared to that.

My real name is "Adam".

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

5 minutes ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

Lol you just did exactly what Adam's talking about you fucking idiot.

Quit feeding. You’re wasting your time and all you’ll achieve is getting a warning point. He’s not here to have an honest conversation.   

[James Arryn]

14 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

No, you implied it but didn't say it.  You are very good with implication.  Then you jump up and down pointing out that you never explicitly said what you implied.  I will grant you that you didn't explicitly say "elections are the remedy".  But you continue to strongly push that implication.

Scot, technically we can't hear his voice, so we don't know what he 'says' and doesn't 'say'. Oh, you cunning fiend, Lew! You win again! At this rate pointless semantic excercise in snide unmeaning will cease to be the open field of endeavour it has heretofore not unbeen. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 minute ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

Shit, I'm sorry about that. I've been up all night, got my wires crossed.

It's cool.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

4 minutes ago, Lew Theobald said:

I'm saying that the 2020 Presidency is one remedy.  Impeachment is another if the POTUS every actually commits a crime.  And SCOTUS can step in if the POTUS ever exceeds his authority.

A travel ban may or may not exceed his authority.  But, to the (limited) extent that border security is his job, he needs to be able to do that job.  Certainly, there is no reason for immediate panic: a travel ban affecting non-citizens does not threaten the democratic process.

I'm not convinced SCOTUS is not doing its job, merely because they declined to stay all aspects of his order while they are waiting to rule on it.  Seems to me that judicial oversight is happening, and the process is working.

And in the meantime you can all keep yelling at him.  Freedom of speech, and all that.  Very important!    

Indeed it is.  I, for one, hope that the Courts act upon their proper authority and reign in Pres. Trump.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

25 minutes ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

I mean, yeah you're right, he's clearly trolling and I shouldn't feed him. "Lewis Theobald" was an English playwright credited with writing "Double Falsehood", which many scholars believe was actually a lost Shakespeare. This reeks of sock puppet fuckery.

Though I'm not entirely sure why you linked me to an article on GamerGate lol.

Has anyone seen Solo recently?

I linked it because it has a good section on trolling and how to deal with the different types of trolls.      

[Kalbear]

1 hour ago, Lew Theobald said:

I'm saying that the 2020 Presidency is one remedy.  Impeachment is another if the POTUS every actually commits a crime.  And SCOTUS can step in if the POTUS ever exceeds his authority.

Note that impeachment is not remotely only in the case of the POTUS committing a crime. That is certainly one thing it can be used for, but gross neglect of duties and misuse of powers (albeit legally, such as pardoning a relative) are also right up there. 

In practice, impeachment doesn't matter until public support has been massively eroded. 

[Bonnot OG]

 

Meet the White Nationalist Fraternity Coming to a College Near You

http://www.theroot.com/meet-the-white-nationalist-fraternity-coming-to-a-colle-1803782779?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=The_Root_

[Kalbear]

6 minutes ago, Lew Theobald said:

Well, if you were to ask Sandor Clegane's opinion, or that of some other cynic, he would probably say that the only thing required is majority of the House and 2/3rds of the Senate, and all else is empty words.  Of course, the House and the Senate don't want to piss off the public.  So ultimately, the words will matter somehow, if the public believes in them.

Yes, exactly. Whether or not it is criminal is really not an issue. As an example, Trump blatantly profiting from the office of POTUS as he did with the recent Malaysian diplomatic trip is easily impeachable, and could be very easily convicted, but it's not actually a crime. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

20 minutes ago, Sword of Doom said:

 

Meet the White Nationalist Fraternity Coming to a College Near You

http://www.theroot.com/meet-the-white-nationalist-fraternity-coming-to-a-colle-1803782779?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=The_Root_

By meet I'm assuming you mean set off some low grade explosives, smash some property and bar entry to their events thus giving them 10 times the publicity they would've otherwise received?

[OldGimletEye]

Today in Bush Era gimmicks that don't work, though Paul "Numbers Guy" Ryan probably thinks they are a great idea.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/09/13/trump-says-his-tax-break-will-get-companies-to-hire-more-workers-companies-say-it-wont/

Quote

Trump says middle-class Americans should not fret about giant corporations getting a steep discount on their tax bills. Once that money is on U.S. soil, Trump argues, companies will use it to build new factories and research centers and create more American jobs.

Also, along with this, it's depressing that Trump is appointing people like Randal Quarles to the FED who has said some really questionable things.

It's like, we haven't learned a goddamned thing since 2007.
 

Quote

“Companies want to get their money back to buy stock and goose the stock price because their senior executives derive so much of their compensation from the stock prices,” said Edward Kleinbard, a tax law professor at the University of Southern California and former chief of staff for Congress’s nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation. “Their motives are completely suspect.”

I think I need to sit down. I'm shocked, just shocked over this.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

Ah okay, I gotcha. It wouldn't open on my phone past the title for some reason. Thanks tho.

Funnily enough, I'm actually in the middle of reading Zoe Quinn's memoir atm.

Funny coincidence. 

[TrackerNeil]

3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

@TrackerNeil is back!!!

Heh...for today, at least. Honestly, after November I could not bear debating the Board Libertarian of the Week (BLOW) about how badly Trump was going to perform as president. He has, but whatever BLOW I was engaged with wouldn't be admitting it anyway.