r'hllor's red lobster

u.s. politics: a cruel and unusual government

409 posts in this topic

19 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

Thank you, that's what I get for googling and then just skimming to see if I remembered it right. Clearly I didn't.

No problem, it happens.

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SHAME!

 

 

A reminder of what a real president sounds like, it's been so long in Trump years it's heartrending to remember: 

 

 

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Some interesting links this morning...

Democrats dread Hillary's book tour:

Quote

For Clinton, it's not about the future of the Democratic Party. She's promoting the book because she doesn't think the story of 2016 has been told properly. People close to her believe there's still no closure from 2016, and that no one has offered a reliable autopsy.

Her inner circle — which has been slowly whittled down to longtime aides like Huma Abedin, Nick Merrill, Philippe Reines, Dan Schwerin and a few friends — is defiant.

 

Trump wants to kill the debt ceiling:

Quote

President Trump floated the idea of scrapping the debt ceiling altogether in a Wednesday meeting with congressional leaders.

In the meeting, in which Trump acceded to Democratic demands for a short-term debt ceiling lift to be coupled with a three-month extension on government funding and Hurricane Harvey relief, the president said that debt ceiling votes were unproductive and that the next such vote could be the last.

 

Trump tells DACA recipients they "have nothing to worry about":

Quote

The president’s comments, however, are unlikely to give comfort to DACA recipients who are worried what might happen to them after the program ends.

 

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Ta-Nehisi does it again; the orange demon does have an ideology, one that has been demonstrated from earliest times and which was his father's as well, and it is white supremacy:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/10/the-first-white-president-ta-nehisi-coates/537909/

Quote

Trump truly is something new—the first president whose entire political existence hinges on the fact of a black president.

 

Edited by Zorral

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Trump is really playing with fire now. If working with Democrats over Republiicans really makes him upbeat enough that it is something we're going to see more of, he truly will Lose His Base™, and yes, I realize that has become something of a trope. But coverage of cooperation with Democrats will pierce the right-wing media bubble, it will bring down the wrath of Coulter, Jones, et. al., and it will make him completely useless to his own congressmembers. And at the same time he will never be able to buy himself enough love from any centrists there might be left in the country to offset the beating he's going to get.

You don't run on being an extremist just to start cooperating with the enemy.

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Trump is right** that the debt ceiling is a stupid issue that costs political capital of whoever controls the government without actually accomplishing anything. If he actually abolishes the debt ceiling, I would totally laud him for it.  I don't think he will, and I'm not even sure he'll actually try.  We'll see.  

** I'm fairly sure this is the first time I've ever used this phrase.

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25 minutes ago, denstorebog said:

Trump is really playing with fire now. If working with Democrats over Republiicans really makes him upbeat enough that it is something we're going to see more of, he truly will Lose His Base™, and yes, I realize that has become something of a trope. But coverage of cooperation with Democrats will pierce the right-wing media bubble, it will bring down the wrath of Coulter, Jones, et. al., and it will make him completely useless to his own congressmembers. And at the same time he will never be able to buy himself enough love from any centrists there might be left in the country to offset the beating he's going to get.

You don't run on being an extremist just to start cooperating with the enemy.

Trump did not run on being an extremist.  Hillary ran on Trump being an extremist.

Some people voted for Trump because they believed Hillary.

Some people voted for Trump because they did not believe Hillary.

But I suppose, it you like, those two groups can be said to collectively comprise his "His Base (TM)".

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6 minutes ago, Lew Theobald said:

Trump did not run on being an extremist.  Hillary ran on Trump being an extremist.

Eh, he pretty much did. He took many of the typical Conservative dogwhistles and broadcast them with a bullhorn. He may have defined this as being an "outsider", but I think many would define it as extremism, and correctly so. 

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38 minutes ago, denstorebog said:

Trump is really playing with fire now. If working with Democrats over Republiicans really makes him upbeat enough that it is something we're going to see more of, he truly will Lose His Base™, and yes, I realize that has become something of a trope.

Let's be real here, this kumbaya moment between Trump and Dem leaders has a half-life in the hours.  Even ignoring political realities, Trump's emotional volatility will surely take care of that.  However...

33 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Trump is right** that the debt ceiling is a stupid issue that costs political capital of whoever controls the government without actually accomplishing anything. If he actually abolishes the debt ceiling, I would totally laud him for it.  I don't think he will, and I'm not even sure he'll actually try.  We'll see.  

This maybe, could be, possibly have legs:

Quote

Trump and Schumer discussed the idea Wednesday during an Oval Office meeting. The two, along with House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D–Calif.), agreed to work together over the next several months to try to finalize a plan, which would need to be approved by Congress.

One of the people familiar described it as a “gentlemen’s agreement.” [...]

Another person familiar with the meeting said Vice President Pence is open to changes he considers in line with the “Gephardt Rule” — a parliamentary rule making it easier to tie raising the debt ceiling with Congress passing a budget. The rule is named after former House majority leader Richard A. Gephardt (D-Mo.). [...]

House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) said at a news conference Thursday that he opposes scrapping the debt-limit process.

“I won’t get into a private conversation that we had [at the White House], but I think there’s a legitimate role for the power of the purse of the Article 1 powers, and that’s something we defend here in Congress.”

If Trump truly wants to scrap the debt ceiling - or return to the Gephardt Rule - I'm fine with that.  However, tactically the Dems should extract something out of it since they will be gifting Trump alleviation from quite a bit of headaches.  The obvious deal is for Trump to pressure enough GOP members to give a clean (and passing) vote on the DREAM Act.  I think that's more than fair.

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8 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Eh, he pretty much did. He took many of the typical Conservative dogwhistles and broadcast them with a bullhorn. He may have defined this as being an "outsider", but I think many would define it as extremism, and correctly so. 

A "Conservative Dogwhistle (TM)" is a secret code used by conservatives, that only a liberal can hear.

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He ran on white supremacy, which maybe in the US of A isn't extreme at all, at least among the white voters who voted him in?

He is a white supremacist, he didn't even dog whistle half the time.  Like his daddy was, who marched with the KKK in his salad days -- and got arrested for the violence he was committing.

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4 minutes ago, Lew Theobald said:

A "Conservative Dogwhistle (TM)" is a secret code used by conservatives, that only a liberal can hear.

Y'know, it really isn't. If you look at it with a non-partisan eye, it becomes pretty transparent pretty quickly. I suppose it's fair to say that the term is overused by liberals, but if you're going to claim it doesn't exist, you're fooling yourself. 

Edited by Manhole Eunuchsbane

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2 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Y'know, it really isn't. If you look at it with a non-partisan eye, it becomes pretty transparent pretty quickly. I suppose it's fair to say that the term is over-used by liberals, but if you're going to claim it doesn't exist, you're fooling yourself. 

It's more about plausible deniability than any kind of sooper sekrit code. His Charlottesville responses were a great example where he was castigated by folks with a conscience and contextual awareness, lauded by white supremacists, and - key - excused by the Right who offered tepid responses to the language but remained in support.

It also goes back to the arguments over whether he should be taken literally or not -- where taken literally his comments are excused by supporters, but the impact and intent are more extreme. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/09/trump-makes-his-case-in-pittsburgh/501335/

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He also called on a foreign government to act against his political rival, called for a "2nd amendment solution" against his political rival, harassed the press so much at his rallies that the crowd yelled at and harassed them as well. In fact one person from the press, Katy Tur, was escorted out by security for her own safety.  He also called his rivals in his party by degrading nicknames. This is not normal, its extreme. 

Edited by Nasty LongRider

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26 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Y'know, it really isn't. If you look at it with a non-partisan eye, it becomes pretty transparent pretty quickly. I suppose it's fair to say that the term is overused by liberals, but if you're going to claim it doesn't exist, you're fooling yourself. 

Sorry mac.  I can read words.  But I can't read minds.  I just don't have the knack.  If you've got some subtle ability that I don't have, then more power to you.

I don't particularly like it when people pretend to read my mind, and ascribe uncharitable motivations to the things I never said.  So I make it my policy to try not to do that to other people.  Golden Rule, and all that.

Edited by Lew Theobald

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3 minutes ago, Lew Theobald said:

Sorry mac.  I can read words.  But I can't read minds.  I just don't have the knack.  If you've got some subtle ability that I don't have, then more power to you.

You COULD be right, I suppose.  But I don't particularly like it when people pretend to read my mind, and ascribe uncharitable motivations to the things I never said.  So I make it my policy to try not to do that to other people.  Golden Rule, and all that.

You don't have to be a mind reader to pick up on much of this stuff. In fact, you have to be fairly obtuse to ignore it. 

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5 minutes ago, Lew Theobald said:

Sorry mac.  I can read words.  But I can't read minds.  I just don't have the knack.  If you've got some subtle ability that I don't have, then more power to you.

You COULD be right, I suppose.  But I don't particularly like it when people pretend to read my mind, and ascribe uncharitable motivations to the things I never said.  So I make it my policy to try not to do that to other people.  Golden Rule, and all that.

But... you did exactly that the last time I responded to one of your posts. You went off on one, going on about how because I was a mod I was 'signalling' that it was 'open season' on you simply by criticising you, accusing me of saying things I hadn't actually said, ascribing nasty motives to me and so on.

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1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

You don't have to be a mind reader to pick up on much of this stuff. In fact, you have to be fairly obtuse to ignore it. 

You're not very specific about what "much of this stuff" is.  

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4 minutes ago, mormont said:

But... you did exactly that the last time I responded to one of your posts. You went off on one, going on about how because I was a mod I was 'signalling' that it was 'open season' on you simply by criticising you, accusing me of saying things I hadn't actually said, ascribing nasty motives to me and so on.

You are pursuing a personal grudge from two threads back.  Please stop.

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