TRILOGY

If Just One Could Survive, Whom Would You Choose: Arya or Sansa?

46 posts in this topic

Sansa mostly because Arya stabbed up Dareon, the guy was an arsehole but was just escaping a shit hand he'd been dealt (if you believe that he didn't rape Mathas Rowan's daughter) and it seems that Arya's walking down an increasingly sinister path. 

From a reader's perspective Sansa as well, since she became Alayne her POVs became much more interesting as Arya's because less so. 

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I think it's more likely that Sansa survives the series, but I hope they both do. 

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On 9/6/2017 at 8:16 PM, TRILOGY said:

Who is the most likely to survive? Who do you want to survive? 

Inspired by this thread. 

Podrick 

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This thread is a terrible idea and appears to be motivated by a preference for one sister over the other. But I'll bite and go with Arya. In the first two books (most definitely AGOT), Sansa's character, IMO, was written as a foil to Arya's. Arya was the heroine and Sansa's character only made Arya's actions and character more heroic and sympathetic to the reader. However, as the story progressed, GRRM decided to give more depth to Sansa's character and her arc started to grow and become quite interesting. I'm still not sure how Sansa's arc will develop and I'm nor convinced like the Sansa fans on thissite that she will become a master player in the league of LF or Varys.  She is developing the skills to become a machivillian sort of character but how far she'll get in terms of beating LF in his own game I'm not sure.

Arya, on the other hand, is definitely going down a dark path but I don't think she's a lost cause or ever will be. She definitely does not fit the definition of a psychopath or sociopath yet, although I've seen several posters on this site call her so. Arya, I think, is central to GRRM's overall end game and will probably survive and will be brought back from her current arc of vengeance and hate to a point where she discovers that she is Ned Stark's little girl again. And I think Jon or the something related to Jon will be the one/thing to do that. The Arya/Jon connection is so strong in the books.

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I would choose Arya, but it's Arya we are talking about here so she could survive on her own without anyone choosing to save her. 

I can't believe the people who say Sansa's storyline is more interesting. Arya is with the FM, who has a major hand in the central ice and fire thing. What she learns will have a huge bearing on the major storyline. Sansa has also been one of the most annoying (as in naive and self-obsessed) characters since book 1. But she has definitely grown up by DwD and we like her more. 

Sansa will put up with Littlefinger long enough to shove him through that sky door. Didn't the Ghost of High Heart make a prophesy about it? Then she's probably become the Lady of Eeyrie. If Sweetrobin dies, she may be able to make a claim as Lysa's niece, but I'm not sure about that. I think Sansa is the one who's most likely not to have a tragic ending. She won't get her old home back, but she will find a new one. 

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1 hour ago, teej6 said:

I'm still not sure how Sansa's arc will develop and I'm nor convinced like the Sansa fans on thissite that she will become a master player in the league of LF or Varys.

You are pulling a strawman. There is no Sansa fan on this forum board who argues she will be a master player in the league of LF or Varys. What we are saying is that given Sansa's arc has been mainly about politics and court intrigue and that she is right now in an apprentice stage, like Arya and Bran, it is extremely likely she will become a player. 

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27 minutes ago, Queen Sansa Stark said:

You are pulling a strawman. There is no Sansa fan on this forum board who argues she will be a master player in the league of LF or Varys. What we are saying is that given Sansa's arc has been mainly about politics and court intrigue and that she is right now in an apprentice stage, like Arya and Bran, it is extremely likely she will become a player. 

Whether you agree or not, I've heard many posters argue that Sansa will become a master player. I do not doubt that Sansa's arc is now all about her learning the skills of court intrigue, I'm just not sure she'll develop these skills enough in thw next couple books to take on the likes of LF. LF's destruction may probably happen at the hands of Sansa but she will be aided greatly in this by LF's own hubris and over confidence.

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17 minutes ago, teej6 said:

Whether you agree or not, I've heard many posters argue that Sansa will become a master player. I do not doubt that Sansa's arc is now all about her learning the skills of court intrigue, I'm just not sure she'll develop these skills enough in thw next couple books to take on the likes of LF. LF's destruction may probably happen at the hands of Sansa but she will be aided greatly in this by LF's own hubris and over confidence.

Sansa's skills in court intrigue in the next book will most likely skyrocket the point it will look unrealistic because technically she is supposed to be eighteen in TWOW. GRRM originally intended to do a five year time skip between ADWD and TWOW. He wanted to do this to aid the Stark children and Dany so they could hone their skills in those years, but while they would benefit from it the adults in the series wouldn't so he decided to scrap it entirely. 

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1 hour ago, Queen Sansa Stark said:

Sansa's skills in court intrigue in the next book will most likely skyrocket the point it will look unrealistic because technically she is supposed to be eighteen in TWOW. GRRM originally intended to do a five year time skip between ADWD and TWOW. He wanted to do this to aid the Stark children and Dany so they could hone their skills in those years, but while they would benefit from it the adults in the series wouldn't so he decided to scrap it entirely. 

Part of the above is incorrect. The short version is here.  http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/FAQ/Entry/What_happened_to_the_five_year_gap_that_was_supposed_to_follow_ASoS/

Mr. Martin’s original intention was that there would have been a five or six year gap between the events of book 3 (A Storm of Swords) and book 4 (A Feast for Crows). However, during the initial writing of A Feast for Crows, Mr. Martin realized that it would not work as intended, and thus he scrapped his plans for a gap after a year of attempting to make it work. The problem was that he found it impossible to jump that span of years without too many flashbacks or expository text, which would break up the narrative too much and leave readers unsatisfied with the result.

What he has now determined is that the events he planned to happen after the five year gap will largely still take place as planned, but will be happening without having to cover those proposed five years. This does mean that some characters will be doing things at an earlier age than he supposed (meaning the children—Bran, Arya, and Sansa—in particular), but it’s an unavoidable problem. He has previously remarked that in hindsight, he should have made the children two or three years older so as to avoid that problem.

The long version is here.   http://observationdeck.kinja.com/george-r-r-martin-the-complete-unedited-interview-886117845

I'm obsessed with the five-year gap you originally planned in the middle of the series. How would that have happened?

Originally, there was not supposed to be any gap. There was just supposed to be a passage of time, as the book went forward. My original concept back in 1991 was, I would start with these characters as children, and they would get older. If you pick up Arya at eight, the second chapter would be a couple months later, and she would be eight and a half and [then] she'd be nine. [This would happen] all within the space of a book.

But when I actually got into writing them, the events have a certain momentum. So you write a chapter and then in your next chapter, it can't be six months later, because something's going to happen the next day. So you have to write what happens the next day, and then you have to write what happens the week after that. And the news gets to some other place.

And pretty soon, you've written hundreds of pages and a week has passed, instead of the six months, or the year, that you wanted to pass. So you end a book, and you've had a tremendous amount of events — but they've taken place over a short time frame and the eight-year-old kid is still eight years old.

So that really took hold of me for the first three books. When it became apparent that that had taken hold of me, I came up with the idea of the five-year gap. "Time is not passing here as I want it to pass, so I will jump forward five years in time." And I will come back to these characters when they're a little more grown up. And that is what I tried to do when I started writing Feast for Crows. So [the gap] would have come after A Storm of Swords and before Feast for Crows.

But what I soon discovered — and I struggled with this for a year — [the gap] worked well with some characters like Arya — who at end the of Storm of Swords has taken off for Braavos. You can come back five years later, and she has had five years of training and all that. Or Bran, who was taken in by the Children of the Forest and the green ceremony, [so you could] come back to him five years later. That’s good. Works for him.

Other characters, it didn’t work at all. I'm writing the Cersei chapters in King's Landing, and saying, "Well yeah, in five years, six different guys have served as Hand and there was this conspiracy four years ago, and this thing happened three years ago." And I'm presenting all of this in flashbacks, and that wasn't working. The other alternative was [that] nothing happened in those five years, which seemed anticlimactic.

The Jon Snow stuff was even worse, because at the end of Storm he gets elected Lord Commander. I'm picking up there, and writing "Well five years ago, I was elected Lord Commander. Nothing much has happened since then, but now things are starting to happen again." I finally, after a year, said "I can't make this work."

END of quote.

I'm thinking this was from an interview in 2013. Maybe someone else can verify that.

 

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4 hours ago, Queen Sansa Stark said:

Sansa's skills in court intrigue in the next book will most likely skyrocket the point it will look unrealistic because technically she is supposed to be eighteen in TWOW. GRRM originally intended to do a five year time skip between ADWD and TWOW. He wanted to do this to aid the Stark children and Dany so they could hone their skills in those years, but while they would benefit from it the adults in the series wouldn't so he decided to scrap it entirely. 

Yes, I know GRRM decided to scrap his original time gap. I don't think he'll now just just make the kids magically develop skills that take years to hone, especially not Arya and Sansa. Instead, he'll show a logical progression. Arya won't be as good as Jaqen or the kindly man, neither will Sansa be better than LF, at least not in the next two books. But they will learn their respective skills and if they survive the end of the series may further develop those skills. We may only get to read about it in the epilogue of the ADOS. Bran, otoh, I believe will master his skills and will probably become more powerful than BR for plot purposes, just as Jon and Dany will have gained the skills for ruling if and when they get the IT. 

Edited by teej6

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6 hours ago, teej6 said:

Whether you agree or not, I've heard many posters argue that Sansa will become a master player. I do not doubt that Sansa's arc is now all about her learning the skills of court intrigue, I'm just not sure she'll develop these skills enough in thw next couple books to take on the likes of LF. LF's destruction may probably happen at the hands of Sansa but she will be aided greatly in this by LF's own hubris and over confidence.

And you are supposed to believe that Arya can become a master assassin in such short notice? Or that Bran will become a deity? As was said, Sansa is on the road of becoming a player. Does that mean she will turn into Varys, LF or Cersei? Hell, no. Most people argue that it means that Sansa will gain agency, that she will be independent and strong, that she will take things regarding her own life into her own hands. Yes, ultimately, we all know she is poised to deal with LF. If she manages to kill him, then that would suggest a great deal of power on her behalf. 

That said, look at Jon or Dany. I don't think one can argue that either of them is the sharpest tool in the set, but they are undoubtedly heroes of the story. Sansa, just like Bran or Arya, is one of the heroes of the story. She is growing, changing, she is affecting the world around her. That is what Martin is writing about and that is what we see in Sansa's chapters so beautifully.

Finally, I refuse to answer to this thread's question. #packsurvives :D

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2 hours ago, Risto said:

And you are supposed to believe that Arya can become a master assassin in such short notice? Or that Bran will become a deity? As was said, Sansa is on the road of becoming a player. Does that mean she will turn into Varys, LF or Cersei? Hell, no. Most people argue that it means that Sansa will gain agency, that she will be independent and strong, that she will take things regarding her own life into her own hands. Yes, ultimately, we all know she is poised to deal with LF. If she manages to kill him, then that would suggest a great deal of power on her behalf. 

That said, look at Jon or Dany. I don't think one can argue that either of them is the sharpest tool in the set, but they are undoubtedly heroes of the story. Sansa, just like Bran or Arya, is one of the heroes of the story. She is growing, changing, she is affecting the world around her. That is what Martin is writing about and that is what we see in Sansa's chapters so beautifully.

Finally, I refuse to answer to this thread's question. #packsurvives :D

If you read my above posts you would see that I'm not stating anything contrary to what you've stated above. Sansa's character has certainly grown and will continue to do so but I don't think we will see her become a master player at the level of LF in the next two books, coz that would seem forced. Same with Arya. She'll acquire the skils but won't be in the league of the kindly man or Jaqen. And I have seen plenty of posts that say that Sansa will be a great player and tactician very soon. She probably will become so but not in the next two books. And I also feel she will take down LF but will be aided greatly in the process by LF's overconfidence and carelessness. 

I disagree with you on Bran though. I do think he will surpass BR very soon as his talents are inborn and magical and his powers stem from this innate ability he has and not some skill he has to attain. He needs to be guided to reach his full potential but once he gets there (which he will before the end of the series) he will be the most powerful being. At least that's how I see his arc going.

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I liked Arya's POV for showing us the devastation of the war in the Riverlands, but since that role's been given to Jaime and Brienne, all Arya does now is indulge in the unbelievably terrible worldbuilding of Essos while having plot armor thicker than an Abram's front glacis. So Sansa.

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9 hours ago, Lifestream said:

Both, cause they need to re-unite.

I agree. I think the plot demands it. 

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On 09/09/2017 at 7:59 PM, TRILOGY said:

Chill. :ph34r:

Anyway, I vote for Sansa but I agree with Queen Sansa Stark, they have equal amount of chance to survive. 

I really dislike being told to chill. Just so you know. 

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3 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

I really dislike being told to chill. Just so you know. 

Lighten up, Lawrence.

I vote Sansa. Of the two of them, she's more beneficial to House Stark, overall. More likely to help continue the line, if need be, and more equipped to engage in politics, which the house sorely needs. Arya's certainly deadly and all, but she's still just one sword, and the Starks have plenty of swords willing to be pledged to them.

If one has to go, its Arya.

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21 hours ago, DominusNovus said:

Lighten up, Lawrence.

I vote Sansa. Of the two of them, she's more beneficial to House Stark, overall. More likely to help continue the line, if need be, and more equipped to engage in politics, which the house sorely needs. Arya's certainly deadly and all, but she's still just one sword, and the Starks have plenty of swords willing to be pledged to them.

If one has to go, its Arya.

Who the fuck is Lawrence? 

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2 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Who the fuck is Lawrence? 

Sorry, that was a typo that totally ruined my joke.  I meant to say Francis.

 

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