AlaskanSandman

Braavos, Tyrosh, and Dorne, Lemons Tree's and a Red Door. Go.

118 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Geeks bite the heads off of chickens and other small animals in freak shows.  Nerd has an inherent bookish quality to it 

Why can't we be both geeks and nerds, you dork? :P

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19 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

About the email, exactly, GRRM has brought fan attention to it. Calling fans nerds or stupid for it is just stupid. 

Yes the Archon is elected. There's isn't a yearly election though if i recall. So it may be for life or untill some one ends it and takes it. Maybe its nothing, but maybe it's something. Im asking people to think and come up with what it could be, not with what it isn't. 

Read above comment. And if the Original Plot you guys keep talking about, is the 3 page outline he gave his publishers after he completed the first 13 chapters? yea that one, doesn't mention anything about Tyrosh or Lemon trees or any of that. And i agree, people should hold to that outline like they should a fart

Not yearly no, but not for life either. GRRM hasn't given us info on how long the term lasts but I would think somewhere between two and five years.

18 hours ago, falcotron said:

There's no special word for much larger fandoms—DC comics, Star Wars, that TV show Game of Thrones

Also, it's very hard to pronounce the word "Asoiafians", but I suppose GRRbils might work.

GRRbils. :lol:  Cute. But how about GRRaniMals?

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11 hours ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

This is really interesting. Why don't lemon trees grow in Braavos? It's quite clear that the big house with the red door and the lemon tree are major landmarks. It''s possible GRRM wanted these very obvious landmarks because he wanted Dany, or the reader, to recognize the place later. Some people seem to take the lemons as a metaphor for bitterness. When I read the story, I thought the lemons simply represented simplicity and nostalgia. Major nostalgia. The lemon tree must have been quite grand for Dany to remember it cause she was like 7 or 8 at the time. 

Braavos is too far north, and the climate is too cold. It would be like me trying to grow lemons here in Wisconsin. Granted, the Sealord could have all kinds of advantages that the common Braavosi lack, like greenhouses, or people working for him who understand the concept of microclimates.

Remembering something from age 7 or 8 isn't remarkable. Dany would have been even younger than that while in Braavos. The house with the red door and the lemon tree outside her bedroom window could be an amalgam, a dream she's conjured up out of bits and pieces of memories. It's come to stand for safety, security, and home in her mind, but it may not be just one place.

If you want to have some real fun with lemon imagery, compare Dany's memories to Sansa's love of lemon cakes and there is a halfway decent case to be made for lemons being associated with innocence and simpler/happier times. Thus your comment about nostalgia takes on greater significance. Neither Dany, nor Sansa, can ever go back to the carefree days of childhood. Technically no character can. That's bittersweet right there. The world will never be the same for any of them.

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4 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Geeks bite the heads off of chickens and other small animals in freak shows.  Nerd has an inherent bookish quality to it 

I don't know. I've known plenty of geeks and for 99% of them the closest they've ever gotten to a chicken was eating at KFC. 

Nerd does have a bookish quality to it though.

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16 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Ok, so looking at the dates and events it seems like this. 

284ac-Danny born, flight from Dragonstone to Braavos

285-286Ac Marriage pact made based on numbers given in the introduction post.

?- Arriane being sent to Tyrosh to be cupbearer. Ill get back to this.

289Ac- Willem Darry supposedly dies and Danny and Viserys are robbed before being put out, but left their mothers crown at least.

             Now, this same year is the Greyjoy Rebellion, a Tourney is held for the victory of it and Jorah purposes to Lynesse that same night. I assume the marriage happened with in the year so maybe 289-290Ac they wed? 

             Arriane going to Tyrosh i list before Darry's death as Doran seems to have lost contact with them after. 

             Jorah spends at least half a year going broke in Tyrosh and a Year in exile in Volantis meaning it's at leassst 291-292Ac about this time. 

So his exile is off by some years, butttt his marriage is right on the button. It's also mentioned he never won again suggesting something may have been up. He won by breaking 9 lances against Jamie to no avail so Robert just gave it to Jorah. Maybe nothing but it's interesting to say the least.

Note- Sorry to edit again. Just saw in the books Daenerys I ACOK Jorah mentions they were wed in Lannisport right there so they wed for sure 289AC and with in a fortnight she was unhappy having arrived to Bear Island. So Jorah may have gone broke within that first year.

Yes, his marriage is also super suspicious. Here is the relevant quote:

Quote

"I fight as well as any man, Khaleesi, but I have never been a tourney knight. Yet with Lynesse's favor knotted round my arm, I was a different man. I won joust after joust. Lord Jason Mallister fell before me, and Bronze Yohn Royce. Ser Ryman Frey, his brother Ser Hosteen, Lord Whent, Strongboar, even Ser Boros Blount of the Kingsguard, I unhorsed them all. In the last match, I broke nine lances against Jaime Lannister to no result, and King Robert gave me the champion's laurel. I crowned Lynesse queen of love and beauty, and that very night went to her father and asked for her hand. I was drunk, as much on glory as on wine. By rights I should have gotten a contemptuous refusal, but Lord Leyton accepted my offer. We were married there in Lannisport, and for a fortnight I was the happiest man in the wide world."

So there are 2 suspicious details there. 1) Jorah was a different man with Lynesse's favor around his arm. This would not be the only instance of potentially rigged jousting. Rhaegar may have cheated to win the Harrenhal tourney and crown Lyanna. Loras definitely cheated against the Mountain. It is even possible that Loras cheated or the old gods interfered with his earlier joust against Jaime where LF importantly lost his dagger to Robert (eventually leading to the Wot5K). And Lyanna may have cheated as the KotLT with her skinchanging abilities, either by magically controlling her own horse or even those of her opponents. We know the Hightowers and Lord Leyton specifically are interested in magic and prophecy, and Lynesse's sister Malora is known as the Mad Maid, which probably alludes to the fact that she has prophetic visions. So it may be that the Hightowers purposely rigged the tourney. And it would probably be super easy for Lynesse to have flirted with Jorah and gotten his attention in the first place if the whole thing was really a set-up from the beginning.

2) Jorah says that by rights Leyton should have refused his offer, but for some reason he accepted, again hinting that the whole thing was just a Hightower set-up.

So the question is, if this was a Hightower set-up, were Leyton and Lynesse working with Varys/Illyrio? It is possible, but the only evidence we really have to go on is the fact that both parties were connected to Jorah, and the set-up is what directly led to Jorah becoming a spy.

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14 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I suspect Varys and Illyrio were watching Viserys and later his sister very closely from the moment he left King's Landing. 

I agree, and I think this idea is supported by this quote from Robert:

Quote

The king's mouth twisted in a bitter grimace. "No, gods be cursed. Some pox-ridden Pentoshi cheesemonger had her brother and her walled up on his estate with pointy-hatted eunuchs all around them, and now he's handed them over to the Dothraki. I should have had them both killed years ago, when it was easy to get at them, but Jon was as bad as you. More fool I, I listened to him."

If Robert knew it was easy to get at them, he must have been getting at least occasional reports on their activities, and these reports presumably came from Varys. Side note, this is also the quote that proves Viserys was being paranoid about Robert trying to kill him.

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16 minutes ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

Yes, his marriage is also super suspicious. Here is the relevant quote:

So there are 2 suspicious details there. 1) Jorah was a different man with Lynesse's favor around his arm. This would not be the only instance of potentially rigged jousting. Rhaegar may have cheated to win the Harrenhal tourney and crown Lyanna. Loras definitely cheated against the Mountain. It is even possible that Loras cheated or the old gods interfered with his earlier joust against Jaime where LF importantly lost his dagger to Robert (eventually leading to the Wot5K). And Lyanna may have cheated as the KotLT with her skinchanging abilities, either by magically controlling her own horse or even those of her opponents. We know the Hightowers and Lord Leyton specifically are interested in magic and prophecy, and Lynesse's sister Malora is known as the Mad Maid, which probably alludes to the fact that she has prophetic visions. So it may be that the Hightowers purposely rigged the tourney. And it would probably be super easy for Lynesse to have flirted with Jorah and gotten his attention in the first place if the whole thing was really a set-up from the beginning.

2) Jorah says that by rights Leyton should have refused his offer, but for some reason he accepted, again hinting that the whole thing was just a Hightower set-up.

So the question is, if this was a Hightower set-up, were Leyton and Lynesse working with Varys/Illyrio? It is possible, but the only evidence we really have to go on is the fact that both parties were connected to Jorah, and the set-up is what directly led to Jorah becoming a spy.

Isnt there something about the cinnamon wind being connected to Old Town, and pops up in Qarth or Mereen? 

Also, the Citidel supposedly received 4 Glass Candles for some reason from Valyria before their collapse. Now Marwyn has one, a black one i believe. That leaves 2 more black and one Green. It would be fitting if the Greens had the green glass candle. Either way, with Urrugon and Peremore Hightower being the founders of the Citidel during the Age of Heroes, it stands to reason the Hightowers have access to these glass candles.

I suspect this is why it's reported that you can see the wall from the Hightower. They seem to be keeping an eye on Dany and the Wall. 

I wonder though if everyone with a glass candle including Urrathon Night walker are in together and the candles work in tandem, like the seeing stones of LOTR, or if they're independent of each other.

Edited by AlaskanSandman
My bad rushed spelling

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25 minutes ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

I agree, and I think this idea is supported by this quote from Robert:

If Robert knew it was easy to get at them, he must have been getting at least occasional reports on their activities, and these reports presumably came from Varys. Side note, this is also the quote that proves Viserys was being paranoid about Robert trying to kill him.

It's honestly hard to not see Varys tied some how to what happened on Dragonstone. Varys was at K.L. the entire time and definitely would have heard the same word as Eddard, and even know first hand that Rhaella and Viserys went to Dragonstone with Darry, and that Robert was fixing to siege Dragonstone soon. 

This also makes me wonder about the two accounts differing between Visery and Jamie about when they left. As Jamie reports just seeing a hooded woman leave in the morning that he assumes is Rhaella. Viserys recalls a midnight flight. So is this part of some scheming by Varys. Or is it somebody elses work. Or is this simply just an error of two faulty narrators? 

Somebody wanted it be thought that Rhaella was leaving in the morning and to be seen by people. While possibly the real Rhaella and Viserys left the night before? Declare out loud where you intend to go (Such as Cat with Tyrion claiming to go north, while really going to the Vale.), then, make everyone think you did with a body double? If that is the case though, where did Rhaella go? Or did she still go, and they just wanted when she left to be secret lest some one tries to foil her flight?

Edit- Ive randomly theorized in another thread that for the sake of argument. Said body double was Ashara Dayne, lady in waiting to Elia Martell, stuck at K.L. and that GRRM has stated that Ashara Dayne was not nailed down at Starfall as many of his fans seem to think.

Oops-should've gone to @Lost Melnibonean

Edited by AlaskanSandman
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3 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Isnt there something about the cinnamon wind being connected to Old Town, and pops up in Qarth or Mereen? 

Also, the Citidel supposedly received 4 Glass Candles for some reason from Valyria before their collapse. Now Marwyn has one, a black one i believe. That leaves 2 more black and one Green. It would be fitting if the Greens had the green glass candle. Either way, with Urrugon and Peremore Hightower being the founders of the Citidel during the Age of Heroes, it stands to reason the Hightowers have access to these glass candles.

I suspect this is why it's reported that you can see the wall from the Hightower. They seem to be keeping an eye on Dany and the Wall. 

I wonder though if everyone with a glass candle including Urrathon Night walker are in together and the candles work in tandem, like the seeing stones of LOTR, or if they're independent of each other.

The adventures of the Cinnamon Wind are quite interesting. It seems to be working directly for Marwyn. Yes, the first place we see the ship is in Qarth, when Quhuru Mo tells Dany that Robert is dead, influencing her subsequent actions. Note that he speaks the common tongue. Later Marwyn infiltrates Aemon's dreams with his glass candle, possibly being the ultimate cause of the entire Braavos/Oldtown adventure. They provide passage to Sam and Aemon (and Gilly and Mance's son) in exchange for rare books, potentially containing vital info about dragons. They claimed the plan is to sell the books to the Citadel, but they were probably lying and plan on using the books. Quhuru also claims to Sam that he cannot speak the common tongue, but we know this to be false.

At some point Quhuru oddly disappears, and a man who is only mentioned once in ASOIAF named Qurulu seems to have taken over as captain of the ship (I assume it is his brother or son). The Cinnamon Wind for some strange reason must submit to an inspection by Gunthor Hightower, Lord Leyton's son, even though the ship had already been inspected. And then Gunthor and Qurulu have a suspicious private conversation, with the excuse being that Gunthor speaks the Summer Tongue. And then Sam leaves Gilly, Aemon's corpse, Mance's son, and the rare books on the ship and meets Marwyn, who immediately departs for the docks, presumably to sail away on the Cinnamon Wind with a bunch of king's blood and rare books about dragons.

It may be that the private conversation between Gunthor and Qurulu involved Gunthor relaying the latest prophetic visions of his sister, the Mad Maid Malora. It is implied that Marwyn had been using his glass candle to learn about Targaryen dragon dreams from Aemon, so he seems to think such visions are important.

I assume the glass candles are mostly "independent" of one another, but they definitely seem to be inspired by LOTR and I wouldn't be surprised if both parties possessing them enabled some sort of enhanced communication ability.

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11 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

It's honestly hard to not see Varys tied some how to what happened on Dragonstone. Varys was at K.L. the entire time and definitely would have heard the same word as Eddard, and even know first hand that Rhaella and Viserys went to Dragonstone with Darry, and that Robert was fixing to siege Dragonstone soon. 

This also makes me wonder about the two accounts differing between Visery and Jamie about when they left. As Jamie reports just seeing a hooded woman leave in the morning that he assumes is Rhaella. Viserys recalls a midnight flight. So is this part of some scheming by Varys. Or is it somebody elses work. Or is this simply just an error of two faulty narrators? 

Somebody wanted it be thought that Rhaella was leaving in the morning and to be seen by people. While possibly the real Rhaella and Viserys left the night before? Declare out loud where you intend to go (Such as Cat with Tyrion claiming to go north, while really going to the Vale.), then, make everyone think you did with a body double? If that is the case though, where did Rhaella go? Or did she still go, and they just wanted when she left to be secret lest some one tries to foil her flight?

Edit- Ive randomly theorized in another thread that for the sake of argument. Said body double was Ashara Dayne, lady in waiting to Elia Martell, stuck at K.L. and that GRRM has stated that Ashara Dayne was not nailed down at Starfall as many of his fans seem to think.

I think it is just supposed to be one of many hints that Dany's entire childhood is a lie. The midnight flight, the lemons, the big wooden house (wood is super expensive in Braavos), Willem Darry being a "bear of a man" but allegedly dying of a wasting sickness. None of her account of her own past makes much sense. But there certainly could be something more nefarious going on.

Edited by 40 Thousand Skeletons

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23 minutes ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

The adventures of the Cinnamon Wind are quite interesting. It seems to be working directly for Marwyn. Yes, the first place we see the ship is in Qarth, when Quhuru Mo tells Dany that Robert is dead, influencing her subsequent actions. Note that he speaks the common tongue. Later Marwyn infiltrates Aemon's dreams with his glass candle, possibly being the ultimate cause of the entire Braavos/Oldtown adventure. They provide passage to Sam and Aemon (and Gilly and Mance's son) in exchange for rare books, potentially containing vital info about dragons. They claimed the plan is to sell the books to the Citadel, but they were probably lying and plan on using the books. Quhuru also claims to Sam that he cannot speak the common tongue, but we know this to be false.

At some point Quhuru oddly disappears, and a man who is only mentioned once in ASOIAF named Qurulu seems to have taken over as captain of the ship (I assume it is his brother or son). The Cinnamon Wind for some strange reason must submit to an inspection by Gunthor Hightower, Lord Leyton's son, even though the ship had already been inspected. And then Gunthor and Qurulu have a suspicious private conversation, with the excuse being that Gunthor speaks the Summer Tongue. And then Sam leaves Gilly, Aemon's corpse, Mance's son, and the rare books on the ship and meets Marwyn, who immediately departs for the docks, presumably to sail away on the Cinnamon Wind with a bunch of king's blood and rare books about dragons.

It may be that the private conversation between Gunthor and Qurulu involved Gunthor relaying the latest prophetic visions of his sister, the Mad Maid Malora. It is implied that Marwyn had been using his glass candle to learn about Targaryen dragon dreams from Aemon, so he seems to think such visions are important.

I assume the glass candles are mostly "independent" of one another, but they definitely seem to be inspired by LOTR and I wouldn't be surprised if both parties possessing them enabled some sort of enhanced communication ability.

Let us not forget Sarella Sand and the fact that Mirri trained with Marwyn. See i think there is definitely something here going on.

So do you think Marwyn and the Hightowers are in on things together. Maybe the Citidel as a whole are not part of it? or are they too?

I kinda wanna take all these bits and pieces and add them into the main post to help paint a picture of what's happening for others to draw from it what they may.

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25 minutes ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

I think it is just supposed to be one of many hints that Dany's entire childhood is a lie. The midnight flight, the lemons, the big wooden house (wood is super expensive in Braavos), Willem Darry being a "bear of a man" but allegedly dying of a wasting sickness. None of her account of her own past makes much sense. But there certainly could be something more nefarious going on.

What's the truth though and how do these various players fit in? I like alot of these things brought up so far that help paint a picture with out having to do alot of leaping and assuming.

Edit- Like the info about the Hightowers and the Cinnamon Wind and such. Tracking these kind of things i think can help alot.

Edited by AlaskanSandman
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Hightower involvement begs it's own questions. As their origins are weird, their ties to the Citidel are weird, and mostly, their role in the Dance of the Dragons that saw almost the extinction of House Targaryen and they're dragons. Who did die shortly after. Dragons were said to roost upon Battle Isle before the first Hightowers put an end to them. This can be literal dragons, or metaphorical dragons (Valyrians, etc.) 

Edit-Is there signs of Hightower aid to the Blackfyre's during the rebellion? or were they for House Targaryen?

Edited by AlaskanSandman
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2 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

That doesn't cover Jon and Dany and how the Others will be defeated.

that isn't what you asked

2 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Well, the crown, and some other money they spent. Plus Viserys somehow treated the Golden Company, with what?

they called him the beggar prince for a reason 

2 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

And yes, because through all 5 books plus TWOIAF we're told that Braavos is against slavery hard core due to their origins of being slaves. Pentos isn't supposed to have slaves due to a war with Braavos. 

what does this have to do with the servants in the Darry house kicking the kids out and taking what money was left after he died?

2 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Possibly. No we dont see that in Arya's POV. All we see is that there is some new Sea Lord that has a different First Sword than Syrio. We're not really given much.

Yes, we know via her POV that there was a new sealord. A change. A different sealord than the one that sheltered the Targs. things change. And since the position isn't hereditary, there has to be an election by some means. 

2 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

So he was a care taker to a royal family, doesn't mean he was rich. And where in smuggling them out would he have been carting a ton of gold? Id venture some one was helping Darry.

If you read the story, it states that like his brother in the KG, he was staunchly loyal to the royal family. When word of the sack came to DS, and after Rhaella was dead, he took her children and fled. He would have had access to jewelry and other possessions. Viserys had her crown. Why not other possessions. Now as to someone helping them, initially? yes, but where were they when the kids were put out? why did the kids wander for years until they made it to pentos? 

2 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Yes, you said the Lemon Tree was an artifact from some older draft. I then asked  a relic repeated up till book 5? And yes, the lemon tree is mentioned in book 5. 

 The lemon tree is an integral part of Dany's story. The lemon tree was originally from an earlier version where the house was in Tyrosh. when he moved the house to Braavos, he kept the tree, but later made Braavos cold and foggy.  That was the relic part. Had she been in Bravos from the beginning, she would be into apples or cherries or something 

2 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

When talking of Lemons in Arya's chapter i believe. A lady says, what do you think this is, Dorne. Implying the only place in Westeros they grow naturally is Dorne. 

Or, dorne is where a lot of lemons come from. Remember, in GOT, king bob talks about the summer heat in king's landing, and how the women wear very little clothing to deal with it. Dorne is not the only warm place in westeros.

2 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

No, just constructive. Down playing one idea while not offering another is not constructive. Thats all. Im up for disagreement otherwise. 

you assume that there is something to be offered when putting down baseless crackpot. See below \/

2 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Face palm. I just randomly made that shit about Quiathe having some random link to the Faceless men and dragons as an example of something random some one could try to argue that id be willing to listen to, long as they provided ideas as to how it happened. In reference to you just blasting stuff while offering nothing.

every single piece of crackpot is exactly that. Random shit people make up out of boredom. Hence my above statement.

3 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Well if you ever find it, let me know. And yes i know he makes mistakes and that's why he hired Elio and Linda. 

I will keep looking and yes, his mistakes finally led him to hire proofreaders. 

3 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Yes, i really dont like the term arguing really. Debating is better. This post isn't a theory though, so your not tempering any crackpot theories. This is asking people to express their crack pot ideas, because im interested to hear them haha so i wanna hear what you think happened, not just what you think didn't happen :D

Well, aside from the thing that we cannot mention,  Doran backs (f)Aegon in dance2 after he finds out the fate of his eldest. Dany fights (f)Aegon after landing in westeros but he has Storms end and king's landing. Jon is healed/resurrected and rides south to join Stannis after Shireen is burned by mel to help the false AA. 

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Its interesting that the Hightowers may have Glass candles, the Citidel does, and so does Marwyn who trained Miri.

Now, Quaithe who may have a Glass Candle as she come to Dany a "Different way" and isn't really there and that her guards didn't see her. Quaithe warns Dany of alot of people, The Lion, The Griffin, The sun's son, the Mummer's Dragon, Dark Flame and Kraken. Yet, she never warns of Marwyn coming. Every one she mentions has no apparent connection to either, the Hightowers, Marwyn, or the Citidel.

Just realized that.

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2 hours ago, falcotron said:

Why can't we be both geeks and nerds, you dork? :P

I like my chicken heads fried personally :)

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2 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I don't know. I've known plenty of geeks and for 99% of them the closest they've ever gotten to a chicken was eating at KFC. 

Nerd does have a bookish quality to it though.

Well, your friends do not (maybe?) live in the 19th century. 

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9 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

that isn't what you asked

they called him the beggar prince for a reason 

what does this have to do with the servants in the Darry house kicking the kids out and taking what money was left after he died?

Yes, we know via her POV that there was a new sealord. A change. A different sealord than the one that sheltered the Targs. things change. And since the position isn't hereditary, there has to be an election by some means. 

If you read the story, it states that like his brother in the KG, he was staunchly loyal to the royal family. When word of the sack came to DS, and after Rhaella was dead, he took her children and fled. He would have had access to jewelry and other possessions. Viserys had her crown. Why not other possessions. Now as to someone helping them, initially? yes, but where were they when the kids were put out? why did the kids wander for years until they made it to pentos? 

 The lemon tree is an integral part of Dany's story. The lemon tree was originally from an earlier version where the house was in Tyrosh. when he moved the house to Braavos, he kept the tree, but later made Braavos cold and foggy.  That was the relic part. Had she been in Bravos from the beginning, she would be into apples or cherries or something 

Or, dorne is where a lot of lemons come from. Remember, in GOT, king bob talks about the summer heat in king's landing, and how the women wear very little clothing to deal with it. Dorne is not the only warm place in westeros.

you assume that there is something to be offered when putting down baseless crackpot. See below \/

every single piece of crackpot is exactly that. Random shit people make up out of boredom. Hence my above statement.

I will keep looking and yes, his mistakes finally led him to hire proofreaders. 

Well, aside from the thing that we cannot mention,  Doran backs (f)Aegon in dance2 after he finds out the fate of his eldest. Dany fights (f)Aegon after landing in westeros but he has Storms end and king's landing. Jon is healed/resurrected and rides south to join Stannis after Shireen is burned by mel to help the false AA. 

No, i think there's nothing to be offered.

I guess that depends on your idea of crack pot. And awesome insight on nearly all throne fans. All and all pretty negative and unproductive. Im not sure what it is you seek to gain on the forum but it may be best to start your own thread so that topic can be to your choosing and help you further what ever theories you might have.

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21 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

No, i think there's nothing to be offered.

I guess that depends on your idea of crack pot. And awesome insight on nearly all throne fans. All and all pretty negative and unproductive. Im not sure what it is you seek to gain on the forum but it may be best to start your own thread so that topic can be to your choosing and help you further what ever theories you might have.


There is no need to further any theories of my own. The book spells most of it out. Any new legit theories on the books were all posted before 2014. Now all we have is the dregs 

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5 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Based on descriptions of him id guess no, but, there is Varys. Varys may well be one, or a Targ.

Daemon Blackfyre's father is Aegon the Unworthy. If Illyrio descends from Daemon, he descends from Aegon IV. Could you buy that? 

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