Slurktan

Stephen King's IT

79 posts in this topic

9 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Oh yeah, some of my favorite Horror stories have really bleak endings. The Ruins by Scott Smith would be one example. 

Yeah. A more Lovecraftian approach to the whole IT thing could have made it infinitely more terrible. Say, one of the children getting away in the end only to be scared as hell until old age when Pennywise finally comes knocking, or something like that. 

There are a few powerful scenes in that book that stress the fact that death and the victory of the creature are inevitable - the whole thing about the adults not seeing/caring works very fine there. And that being continuously reinforced throughout the story until the very end would have made the story much more terrible and more powerful as a horror novel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

.

The message the book is sending seems to be that not being afraid of the thing isn't enough. Its claws and teeth are still real, never mind what you believe. The best example for that is the Hockstatter murder in the book. The boy fears nothing yet that doesn't save him.

 

But Patrick Hockstetter is afraid of one thing, leeches.  The scene in which he is eventually killed reveals that he is afraid leeches are sucking his "realness" out of him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Fiddler said:

But Patrick Hockstetter is afraid of one thing, leeches.  The scene in which he is eventually killed reveals that he is afraid leeches are sucking his "realness" out of him.

Wasn't he not just disgusted of leeches, not *really* afraid of them? They knock him out pretty quickly but isn't that because they were poisonous?

In any case, when he finally meets the thing it is an amorphous white mass, unable to take a proper form because Patrick's mind is too blank for that kind of thing.

One assumes that it would have been a huge leech if that was what the boy was truly and deeply afraid of.

2 hours ago, lancerman said:

Not being afraid of IT is one thing. Hurting it requires a child like belief that what you are doing can hurt IT. 

You have to believe a silver bullet can hurt IT. You have to believe a Ritual of Chud is the only way to kill it. 

IT never intended for its ability to manifest fear through the power of people believing what they are seeing could be used against IT. That last what horrified IT. Not only were these kids not a afraid. They actually worked out a way to hurt IT. And there were 7 people who could do it and gang up on him so it couldn't just pick them off one by one. 

IT realized there was a possibility that IT's food might be able to kill it and that threatened IT's entire existence. To the point where IT went back in hiding after nearly getting killed and gave the kids perfect lives far away from Derry, and made sure they couldn't have children. It was a one in a million scenario where the right 7 kids were guided by Gan and the Turtle and worked out how to use their friendship and belief into killing it..

That is an interesting interpretation but is that really what's in the text? Isn't the thing's fear that it is going to be harmed and killed by them a deciding factor, too? The whole Ritual of Chüd thing is just a battle of wills.

And I'm not sure it is just children who can hurt the thing - I mean, if I'm an adult believing in werewolves one should expect me to be able to kill them with silver bullets, just as vampires can be staked in Salem's Lot. The difficult thing for the gang is to get back into the mindset of believing in monsters in the first place - although it is somewhat odd that they struggle with that so hard considering that they are so afraid of the thing.

I see a similar underlying thing in Leland Gaunt in Needful Thing who is more of a character than Pennywise. He is afraid of Pangborn from the very beginning, constantly avoiding him throughout the novel. In his case we cannot say it is only Pangborn's vague believe in a higher (positive) power or his belief in magic that does the trick. It is as much Gaunt's belief in Pangborn's specialness and power that's his undoing. Alan really has no idea what he is doing there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Lord Varys

Man, I am too tired to keep arguing in circles with you. I'm just gonna say that the book you're describing, isn't IT. Maybe it would be scarier, or darker, or more forgiving of what you perceive to be inconsistencies in the novel, but it wouldn't have what makes the story special, what elevates it beyond any by-the-numbers horror story. Taking the childhood friendship angle out of IT is like taking alcoholism out of The Shining. It would lose the thing that makes it real, and thus truly frightening. You can still have a scary novel about a haunted house and a psychopath terrorizing his family. But it wouldn't be The Shining.

Edited by Let's Get Kraken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

@Lord Varys

Man, I am too tired to keep arguing in circles with you. I'm just gonna say that the book you're describing, isn't IT. Maybe it would be scarier, or darker, or more forgiving of what you perceive to be inconsistencies in the novel, but it wouldn't have what makes the story special, what elevates it beyond any by-the-numbers horror story. Taking the childhood friendship angle out of IT is like taking alcoholism out of The Shining. It would lose the thing that makes it real, and thus truly frightening. You can still have a scary novel about a haunted house and a psychopath terrorizing his family. But it wouldn't be The Shining.

And again - that isn't my point. The point is that the monster is inconsistent and the story could have been either a better horror novel (or a set of novellas) or a better novel about children/adults fighting the good fight if that hadn't been so.

I don't think that's all that controversial unless you think the monster is completely consistent and makes a lot of sense the way it is.

We don't need Pennywise being older than the universe for him to be as great a threat to the Losers and the good denizens of Derry as he is.

The Shining is a different case. There the alcoholism is an important part of the protagonist's character. What is strange there is more the haunted house itself - its 'motivation' to do what it does. The ghosts and manifestations are one thing, even the idea of a lot crimes and deaths leaving 'an evil aura' sort of makes sense, but the Hotel ending up high-jacking Jack completely and making him a zombie thing seems to be a little too much. Especially in light of the fact that 'the Hotel' apparently completely ignores the heating system time bomb.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You might want to start a thread for King over in lit. Not that I mid the discussion here but you might get more participation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 16/09/2017 at 3:33 PM, PlayerUp.com said:

Solid movie. Looks like this will end up being a series. 

A duology I think. 

 

It's broken a lot of records !! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm hoping it leads to a bunch more attempts at doing Stephen King novels are mid-budget movies. Dark Tower was a bust, but they're also doing The Stand again, and I'd love to see them take stabs at The Shining (again*), The Long Walk, Pet Sematary, and so forth.

* I like the Kubrick version of The Shining, but it does feel quite different in characterization from the book. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Summer Bass said:

I'm hoping it leads to a bunch more attempts at doing Stephen King novels are mid-budget movies. Dark Tower was a bust, but they're also doing The Stand again, and I'd love to see them take stabs at The Shining (again*), The Long Walk, Pet Sematary, and so forth.

* I like the Kubrick version of The Shining, but it does feel quite different in characterization from the book. 

I hope it will lead to them doing more King adaptations that aren't a single movie.  The bulk of King's best novels would be much better served by a series of films or a limited TV series rather than a single film.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd love to see an anthology series based on his short fiction work.

(Off topic, but I'd also love such a series based on GRRM's early scifi work).

Edited by Let's Get Kraken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

The Stand movie is dead, at the moment.

For now. Maybe they'll re-boot it again in two years, with a different director, different actors cast, etc.

Truth be told, I wouldn't be too sad if that one was never successfully remade (I liked the mini-series). I'd be much more interested to see someone try Needful Things, The Shining (again), Insomnia (after IT Chapter 2 is done), Revival, and the Long Walk. None of those would break the bank on budgeting, either - they could probably do them on an IT-sized budget ($30-50 million per film).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Darth Richard II said:

Honestly I feel The Stand has aged very very badly. I loved it growing up but I read it now and there are, eh, issues.

That's the one that King revised in 1985, right? (The year the Captain Trips plague took place.) Originally published in 1978, if I recall. I wonder if it could be revised again? Of course that treads into the Possibly Needless Remake category, as I always felt the TV mini was a fine adaptation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Honestly I feel The Stand has aged very very badly. I loved it growing up but I read it now and there are, eh, issues.

I finally read all of The Stand just the other week (had two very long plane rides), and I agree. I really like the basic concept, but almost all of the execution falls very short. The logic of non-supernatural elements is too shaky in a way King usually isn't, there are some of his worst pacing issues, and there are way too many unnecessary and unresolved plot threads. Plus the usual unsatisfactory ending.

There are so many other King works I'd like to see adapted first, and such better collapse-and-rebuilding-of-society stories that could be adapted instead (e.g. The Passage, at least the first book; and it seems like it may finally actually be leaving development hell).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was thinking more of the fact that the purpose of women is to make the babies and the, eh, let's say black stereotypes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/19/2017 at 4:02 AM, Summer Bass said:

I'm hoping it leads to a bunch more attempts at doing Stephen King novels are mid-budget movies. Dark Tower was a bust, but they're also doing The Stand again, and I'd love to see them take stabs at The Shining (again*), The Long Walk, Pet Sematary, and so forth.

* I like the Kubrick version of The Shining, but it does feel quite different in characterization from the book. 

I think The Long Walk could be done well if they took a more futuristic view of it and created more of a backstory to The Major and some of the boys. Mixing genders and adding some females to the walkers would be a good idea as well.

I'd also love to see Eyes of the Dragon made into a film. With the success of LoTR, Hobbit, and GoT I could see a market for the film. Maybe there is not enough there and i am being sentimental but I loved that story. It was my first King book. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now