AlaskanSandman

End Game: Telepathy/Telekinesis, the myths, the black-stone and the Trees. It's all connected :P Oh, and the secret to Dragon steel?

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So i brought up some random ideas others have started and i followed through with to a possibly clearer picture? Telepathy and Telekinesis is the only magic that we're seeing and that it all derives from the Trees and Fire. The White Trees with Red Leaves, and the Black Trees with Blue Leaves. Each requiring blood to make them work or to feed the gods.

So let's first bullet points.  

*The Gift- Powers passed on through CotF to men through breeding.

*Creation of dragons and Direwolves may have just been breeding by a skinchanger, the og blood of the dragon. breaking the rules.

*Mind controll/Telepathy- Fooling those who see you into seeing something else, false sense of foreseeing the future through mind reading, seeing back in time through the Tree's which are alive, Mind controll and making creatures or people do what you want.

*Telekinesis- Controlling shadows, controlling water, controlling fire, controlling ice, controlling dragons or creatures through telekinetic nudges like a cowboy does with his heels or reins. 

*The Blackstone is petrified weirwood, the Black ones with Blue leaves.

*Dragon Glass/Obsidian Glass- Frozen Fire made in the heart of the Earth.

*Glass candles are Obsidian, mixed with blood of the dragon. Obsidian being Frozen Fire.

*Valyrian Steel

Spoiler

is Iron, fire, blood of the dragon, and, ready for it, the black weirwood. To get the carbon for the steel. 

*Dawn

Spoiler

was forged using the white Wierwood, iron, fire, and blood of the Dragon.

*Blood of the dragon is actually the family of skinchangers brought on by the mingling of humans and Cotf, which allowed men to tap into the trees and their powers. Though expanding the possibilities into weapons, structures and magic creatures tied to them by blood. 

*Prolonged Life/Long Life- Is tied to glamouring and possibly blood or using the Trees.

*Shadow Demons- A product of death, and life. Important regarding Jon and Dany, and the Night's King and his Corpse Bride.

The Gift- Now it all starts with the pact, in which men and CotF come together and breed. Creating a family of men that could tap into the Weirwood trees and their powers, and converting to the Faith of the Old Gods along with their men. 

Dragons- Some one in this family (Azor Ahai or someone else) creates dragons by breaking the rule on mating while wearing the skin of another creature. So they purposely rounded up Wyvern from their city in Sothoryos and the Fire Wyrms they discovered in Stygai, and bred them through skinchanging. Causing the resulting dragons and their bond to the family that created them as a part of his soul went into the dragon. (This will come up later on the Night's King, Corpse Queen, and Jon and Dany.). Same happened with the Direwolves possibly. 

*Edit- The dragons are controlled through telekinetic or telepathic nudges. Not whips or dragon horns. This is why Dany's horse and dragons seem to respond like they know what she wants, but Dany doesn't realize this so it's happening subconsciously and doesnt' always work in the case of the dragons.  

Now either the Black trees with blue leaves have always been around, or they're the result of some sort of corruption. Them and their fire (blue) become used by said family in constructions. The Blackstone supposedly involved with dragons, these weird building and the powers of Melisandre being greater at the wall than even Asshai (Black stone foundation), is actually just more petrified Weirwood Trees. The Black kind with Inky blue leaves? We know that one Castle in Westeros is said to be built of Weirwood Trees. The Grey Kings Hall may have been petrified Weirwood trees too. So essentially the powers are all derived from the trees. And why blood is needed cause the trees powers are fed by blood. So anything built of it will drink in the blood. Plus you now have the blood of the dragon which hold magic in and of it's self, and ill be getting into how this works. So this explains why there is so many constructions of this apparent black stone, but too much for it to have been a meteor, and why it's imbued with magic.

Dragon Glass/ Obsidian- Is forged in the heart of the Earth and named Frozen Fire. May be a natural magical item of its own accord tied to Fire Magic. On it's own all we know is that it can kill the Others.

Now Glass candles seem to as though they were hit with dragon fire and twisted the obsidian. Im guessing they mixed they're blood into them to allow them to use them to enter peoples dreams and see far with them. Maybe even having mixed the trees in through the ash and sand melted? Obsidian it self being made it the heart of earth and being magical on it's own and called dragon glass just for the fact it's made with fire. Its named Frozen Fire. On it's own all we know for sure is that it can kill an other. Glass candles have been twisted and possibly had other things done to it to make it do what it does.

Now, Valyrian/Dragon steel. Forged of blood and steel and dragon fire they say, i say just fire. But the key is weirwood trees for the carbon and the magic, along with the blood of the dragon of course. See Qohoric smiths can melt it and reforge it, but dont know the missing key to making it new. I might add that ice was melted down and reforged with out the need of dragons in K.L. This also explains why dragon steel is black, which leads me to Dawn.

Why not made out of obsidian? Well obsidian is glass, so it wouldn't really work with metal. Amorphous metals are non crystalline in their atomic structure and have a more scattered glass-like structure that makes them very brittle. As opposed to Steel which is  Iron with carbon to make it stronger (actually more flexible which gives "strength" allowing it not to break) with an atomic structure of atoms more aligned and tight. 

Dawn, glows white like milk glass yet has all the other properties of Dragon steel. Why? Because it was forged using the white trees for its carbon. Another reason Dawn is white and Valyrian steel is Black, is due to the simple fact we're told of ample weirwood trees in Westeros, but not a mention of them in Essos. In Essos, they have another tree, one which is likely in Westeros too (Ill explain), the black one with the blue leaves found at Qarth and used to make shade of the evening. The Blacktrees may have been mentioned in westeros as were told of trees in the north with black bark that burns blue when burned. We're just not told whether the leaves are blue or not. 

Edit- Neat fact about swords and metal, is that the Vikings used to use the bones or their dead ancestors to infuse the Iron with Carbon in the forging process to make steel. So weirwood instead of coal or normal wood would make sense.

**Edit- Oathkeeper, Widow's Wail, and Red Ryne.- I thought id touch upon these swords and them being red and what may be happening here. Now first of all, all Valyrian steel is Smoke Grey to Black by all acounts. Except for these three. So why? Well we know Ice was smoke grey, and that it was melted down into Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail. Now Tobho Mott claims he was using magic to turn the sword crimson but that it came out black and red instead. Was Tobho being truthful? He can add color to normal steel but can he add color to Valyrian Steel? Idk as there's no examples. Yet i find it interesting that Red Rain may be named so for being owned by House Reyne, taken by House Drumm. I would venture to guess that in the process of taking the sword, killed the member of House Reyne with the sword, or at least some member with the sword. If so, Eddard being executed with his own sword, and the sword drinking the blood of it's owner, may have something to do with why these swords are red. Or maybe not. Maybe it is just some "magical" thing done while reforging, and when i say "Magical" i mean some scientific method we dont understand so it just appears supper natural.

Edit-Now as far as prolonged/ long lives. This seems to be a mix of two different things happening. Prolonging ones life, which seems to leave them old and ugly physically still, such as Bloodraven , the Undying and possibly Melissendre. This seems to involve some sort of blood magic as we're told of other people bathing in blood to stay young, but may not as Bloodraven is using the trees achieve this, while Melisandre is using an un-yet seen method. The Next part of it seems to be glamouring ones self to hide the fact that your still old, such as Melisandre or the Undying. Prolonging your life seems to come at a cost.

Edit-Shadow Demons- Ok, so lastly is shadow demons. Which we see born of Melisandre and Stannis, who gives his seed to her and depletes his fires in the process. To the point Melisandre say's any more would kill Stannis. So what's happening here? Well, the "Never Born" is happening here. Or at least a lesser degree of it. Melisandre is dead for all intent and purposes. She has extended her life beyond it's natural mortal years and is her self a walking corpse, who like the Corpse Queen, sleeps with a man who's alive, and he gives his soul to her through his seed. They're baby. So what would happen if Stannis kept doing this and his Fire's died out? Would he simply die? Or turn into something dark and cold like the Others? This is how i think the Others were born, why they cant reproduce now, and need crastor's sons.

 

______________________________Dreams/Visions/ and Prophecies_________________________________

                                                                                             

Spoiler

 

To start we'll list the known methods for sending or receiving dreams or visions. 

Sending

*Glass Candles- Able to be used to enter peoples dreams, communicate with each other and across vast distances.

*Weirwood Trees- Able to be used to enter peoples dreams, communicate with each other and across vast distances, and allow person to see into the past, and supposedly into the future.

Receiving

Weirwood paste/Shade of the Evening- Used to help open a person's third eye possibly but associated with allowing person to now see visions and in case of Bran, wed him to the trees to use them to greater abilities. It is unknown if Euron, Dany, or the Warlocks are now able to tap into the Black and Blue trees the same way.

Fire Visions- Allows person to receive supposed visions from an unknown person or being. Unknown if fire is capable of being used to any greater extent. When Varys's parts are burned, he reports that the flames turned blue and that a voice answered that he couldn't understand. 

Glass Candles- In receiving from Glass Candles we know very little. Maester Marwyn may have been visited by Marwyn in his dreams, but we are given no POV chapters to know what is going on. Dany is visited by Quiathe presumably by Glass Candles and appears to her. It is unknown is Dany is Asleep, half Asleep, or actually awake.

Weirwoods and Blackstones- When around said items, people are able to receive visions as in the case of Jamie falling asleep on a weirwood stump, or blackstone (which i think is the black tree petrified) being around while Dany has her dreams in AGOT. Theres the Weirwood throne in the Eyrie possibly giving Robert Arryn dreams. 

Receivers and eye color.

Daenys the dreamer- purple, dragon dreams

Prince Daeron- purple, dragon dreams

Daemon Blackfyre- purple, dragon dreams

Measter Aemon- purple, dragon dreams

Aegon V- purple, dragon dreams

Daenerys- purple, dragon dreams

Maggy the Frog- Red, Green Dreams

Ghost of Higheart- Yellow (Golden?), Green Dreams

Brandon Stark- Blue, Green Dreams, Wolf Dreams, Three Eye Crow Dreams (we'll talk further)

Rickon Stark-, Blue, Green Dreams

Jon Snow- Grey/black, Green Dreams, Wolf Dreams, dragon dreams?

Jojen Reed- Green, Green Dreams

Robert Arryn- Unknown, Green dreams? Dragon Dreams? Unknown.

Jamie Lannister- Green, Green dream?

Tyrion Lannister- Green/Black, Green dream? Dragon dream?

Melisandre- Red, Fire visions

Stannis Baratheon- Blue eyes, Fire Visions

Moqorro- Unknown, Fire Visions

Thoros- Unknown, Fire Visions

Dosh Kaleen- Unknown, Fire Visions? Green Dreams?

Patch Face- Unknown, Green Dreams? 

Euron- Blue/Black (red in Aerons dream), Green Dreams? Three Eye Crow Dreams? Drinks shade of the evening for sure. 

So most things seem related to green dreams via the trees, a couple known Glass Candle dreams, and then Fire visions. The Glass Candle dreams may be related to the visions in the Fires and how they're being sent to people who see them in the flames. The Dosh Kaleen i think are seeing there's in the fires. Patch Face id assume is receiving them in his sleep. Same for Euron. 

Interestingly Bran mentions having Tree dreams, Wolf Dreams, and Three Eye Crow Dreams. The Wolf Dreams we know are him warged into Summer, as Arya and Jon have the same dreams. Yet when Bran asks Bloodraven about being the Three Eyed Crow, he seems confused and says yet he was a Crow, black of garb. Suggesting he thinks Bran is talking about him having been in the Nights Watch. Suggesting the Three Eyed Crow may not be Bloodraven. When Jon sees Bran in a vision, he comes to Jon via a tree. So the Three Eyed Crow, may be associated with who is sending visions in the flames, or not. Unknown who is sending the visions in the flames.

It is unknown if the prophecies and prophetic dreams are actually real, or dreams being sent by some one who can see the activities of others. Such as Marwyn or Bloodraven, and are unaware if the Others have this ability. 

 

________________________CRACK POT ENDING IDEA__________________________________

 

Spoiler

 

MY CRACK POT ENDING IDEA. (Updated)

Now, onto what i think happened and how the others were created, and what theOthers wants. Short answer, they want there "Never born" child and to Break the Curse.

So i believe Azor Ahai forging Light bringer was a trick by the CotF after the meteor fell and caused the Long Night. The corpse queen was his wife Nissa Nissa reborn, the first Other, who finds him. He unwilling to leave her after the COTF betrayal. He gives his seed to her and falls into their trap, creating the Others. They are eventually defeated and his Corpse Queen is destroyed. Some Others survived though.

Problem though, they cant reproduce now though and replenish there numbers now. Hence the baby nabbing and why they need people like Crastor. That is untill the Others can get their plan into motion by going into peoples dreams and causing them to do things. Namely, Jon, Dany and Bran. 

Note that Bran says he has Tree dreams, Wolf Dreams, and three eye crow dreams. And when he ask's Bloodraven about being the 3 eyed crow, he seems puzzled and says yes he was of the Nights Watch. He does mention coming to Bran in his dreams though, soooo, he's weirwood/Tree dreams. The wold dreams are Bran warged into summer while he's sleeping. So the Three Eyed Crow is some one else. As far as dreams, we know that Bloodraven can enter dreams, people with Glass candles can, and possibly the Others/Great Other. The only other visions people have other than their dreams, is fire visions. Ghost of High Heart receives her vision in her sleep for exp. So we have dream visions and 3 possible culprits. But dont know who is sending fire visions and how that works. Perhaps just another form of blinding you to wake your third eye?

Now for this part im gonna use the show a lil, but it's something i thought was gonna happen any ways so im still using it. Dany and Jon will hook up and have a baby, but this baby will not be good. Why? The Never born. 

Jon is a fire wight now, resurrected by who and controlled by who? Think whites and how they're controlled. So here we have a dead Jon, mating with an alive Dany. How will that child come out?? Never Born. Exactly what the Others wants.

*Edit- Im thinking the Others may want to break the curse via Jon and Dany and may be positioning them into this.

Jon will be resurrected but will now be a wight. Dead. Controlled by some one else like all wights, who now has access to their memories. Hook up with Dany and have a "Never Born" Child. Now why wouldn't the Others just go turn a female into an Other? Im guessing they cant and it wouldn't work anyways as it would be two dead things mating. I think it's tied to Death paying for Life. It has to be some one alive with some one dead, exp. Night's King/Corpse Bride, Stannis/Melisandre/ and Jon/Dany. Jon will be being controlled by who ever is leading the Others and controlling the armies of the Dead, so it wont be Dany mating with Jon, it will be Dany mating with an Other. 

Azor Ahai and the Night's King legends are about the trick from the COTF that caused the Others. The Others, aside from wanting revenge would possibly and logically want to break this curse against them. This may be the way to do it.

Thoughts? This would explains alot and cut out alot of magic and superstition.

 

 

 

 

Edited by AlaskanSandman
Edit- Updated info and took theory further. Ive not changed anything, just added to it to encompass more like prolonged life. Added in discussion of red Valyrian steel.

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Targaryen and Stark bond with their creatures may just be the result of some one breaking one of the Warging rules like Varymyr and having sex with other creatures while in other creatures. This may have been how they got the Wyvern and Firewyrms to mate to begin with.

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Well if you want all my thoughts on the subject, feel free to read these relevant threads.

This one explains the mechanics of telepathy based on GRRM's other stories:

I think the most significant point I made in that thread is that seeing visions in the flames (like Mel) is basically the exact same thing as being blind or being in complete darkness (like Arya, Bran, and the worshipers of Blind Boash). Because if you stare at a fire for hours, you effectively go blind. I see no reason to think that there is some sort of difference between "fire magic" and "ice magic". It is all just generic telepathy.

And this much cooler thread explains that shade of the evening and weirwood paste are basically the same thing, greenseer blood, and the Undying of Qarth are all hooked up to their trees (the ones surrounding the HOTU) Bloodraven-style:

 

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4 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

Well if you want all my thoughts on the subject, feel free to read these relevant threads.

This one explains the mechanics of telepathy based on GRRM's other stories:

I think the most significant point I made in that thread is that seeing visions in the flames (like Mel) is basically the exact same thing as being blind or being in complete darkness (like Arya, Bran, and the worshipers of Blind Boash). Because if you stare at a fire for hours, you effectively go blind. I see no reason to think that there is some sort of difference between "fire magic" and "ice magic". It is all just generic telepathy.

And this much cooler thread explains that shade of the evening and weirwood paste are basically the same thing, greenseer blood, and the Undying of Qarth are all hooked up to their trees (the ones surrounding the HOTU) Bloodraven-style:

 

Give me just a min. Im about to expand into some much deeper area connecting everything further, if i can ;)

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So this doesn't answer who the gods are still and doesn't attempt to really. The Tree's i imagine are one force. The Other maybe independant of the Night King, or not. There definitely seems to have been some sea creatures who may link to the Deep Ones, along with the Fisher Queen's that may have filtered down some how. I think these will all be unresolved plot points that we're not meant to understand and that this is some sort of magic and work still that we dont understand. Even if the telepathy and telekinesis we use is not magic or some sci-fi science power, and just an extension of our higher being, it doesn't matter to the story ultimately. Even if the tools used, i.e. Trees, Fire, Obsidian, etc are seen, the forces governing them wont be. We really dont even need to know telepathy and such is whats really happening for the story to resolve it self either. 

This also doesnt' paint a picture of what exactly happened in the past, but just a vague understanding or what roughly happened, while hinting at how it ties to our stories end through clues like the Nigh King and Stannis's shadow baby.

It also doesn't offer a resolve to how Jon and Dany must defeat the Night King, just what the Night King wants and is after. Still very much interested in any and all thoughts into any section of it :) 

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The Night King is a show character and hasn't appeared in the books.  He might not appear in the books at all.

Quote

As for the Night's King (the form I prefer), in the books he is a legendary figure, akin to Lann the Clever and Brandon the Builder, and no more likely to have survived to the present day than they have.

GRRM

1

I agree with your suggestion that we may never learn what mechanisms allow magic to work in this story. 

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As far as why the Night King doesn't just take some girl and turn her into an Other? Cause then you would have two dead things mating. I think he needs one dead, and one alive. 

So if Jon is dead, and is brought back to life like Beric or Caitlyn, then Jon would be a Wight. Like the Wight that was brought beyond the wall, they're controlled by some one who has access to they're memories. 

So the Night King will controll Jon into mating with Dany possibly to get death paying for life. 

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6 hours ago, White Ravens said:

The Night King is a show character and hasn't appeared in the books.  He might not appear in the books at all.

I agree with your suggestion that we may never learn what mechanisms allow magic to work in this story. 

Well the Night's King does exist, the Night King doesn't. No we dont know that the old Night King is still controlling them. Doesn't change my opinion that the guy leading them now needs this. Kind of bad to use his name i guess as leading them but as we dont know who is specifically leading them now i just used him. 

Edit. Fixed which one he calls them. 

Edited by AlaskanSandman
Edit

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I will be working to include all known information regarding visions and prophecies. Who is receiving them, what is being used to potentially send them, and receive them, and who may be sending them, and what it all means.

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Ill edit the information surrounding motives of the Others and remove the Night's King from current situation and only reference him for the past events. 

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On 9/8/2017 at 11:04 PM, AlaskanSandman said:

The Blacktrees may have been mentioned in westeros as were told of trees in the north with black bark that burns blue when burned. We're just not told whether the leaves are blue or not. 

yes, the leaves are blue.  I'm somewhat obsessed with this.

Quote

Long and low, without towers or windows, it coiled like a stone serpent through a grove of black-barked trees whose inky blue leaves made the stuff of the sorcerous drink the Qartheen called shade of the evening.

ACoK Dany IV

Bran - who eats the weirwood paste - and Dany - who drinks shade of the evening - have very similar descriptions of their taste and very similar experiences with alternate dimensions/time travel etc.  So I'm also certain the weirwood and the blackwood is related in some manner. Possibly a corruption, I've considered that because of the corrupted blue heart in Dany's HoTU visions

Also if you suppose that the weirwood leaves are red because they're fed human blood, and that Valyrian steel red it's red hue from dragon blood, I'd like you to consider that the Others have blue blood.  It doesn't all have to be about dragons.

More in a bit.

 

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On 9/10/2017 at 0:14 AM, AlaskanSandman said:

As far as why the Night King doesn't just take some girl and turn her into an Other? Cause then you would have two dead things mating. I think he needs one dead, and one alive. 

I believe this has already happened.  Consider that GRRM is not planning on having an entire generation pass to put a magical Jon/Dany baby in place as the savior.  The magical baby already exists.

Chapter One GoT tells us outright:

Quote

And their women lay with the Others in the Long Night to sire terrible half-human children.

And Chapter One GoT tells us:

Quote
"Maybe she didn't," Jory said. "I've heard tales … maybe the bitch was already dead when the pups came."
"Born with the dead," another man put in. "Worse luck."

And - this is a controversial statement but I think Lyanna may have been a version of whatever Coldhands is.  Unless GRRM intentionally uses a misplaced modifier here, it is Lyanna's palm that is dead and black.

Quote

the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black

So.  We already have the magic baby born of the dead - Jon Snow.  

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On 9/9/2017 at 8:44 PM, AlaskanSandman said:

So this doesn't answer who the gods are still and doesn't attempt to really.

Gestalts: the psychic power of the average human is tiny, unable to much of anything on it's own, but when that energy coalesces into a single will, there's real power behind it.

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6 hours ago, WeaselPie said:

yes, the leaves are blue.  I'm somewhat obsessed with this.

ACoK Dany IV

Bran - who eats the weirwood paste - and Dany - who drinks shade of the evening - have very similar descriptions of their taste and very similar experiences with alternate dimensions/time travel etc.  So I'm also certain the weirwood and the blackwood is related in some manner. Possibly a corruption, I've considered that because of the corrupted blue heart in Dany's HoTU visions

Also if you suppose that the weirwood leaves are red because they're fed human blood, and that Valyrian steel red it's red hue from dragon blood, I'd like you to consider that the Others have blue blood.  It doesn't all have to be about dragons.

More in a bit.

 

Do you have a quote for that as that would be very helpful. I know of the blue leaved one in Essos but definitive proof that it's in Westeros would be cool.

As far as the steel turning red? That only happenes the once with Ice. All other Valyrian steel we're shown is dark almost black. Tobho mentions it being spells that he uses to add color to steel with out paint, but that something happened and instead of the sword being all crimson. Its black and red ripples together. 

So i know Tobho mentions magic, but i suspect this is just another forging secret. Like using the trees to infuse the Iron with Carbon. An actual method for forging steel. So this may just be another trick of the trade, such as tempering it in oil and heat to get the resulting color. This is the easiest way to get color into steel. All methods involve heat and some alchemy and understanding of metallurgy. This may be less special than it seems. Or it's something more, and may have to do with the sword drinking the blood of it's owner?  

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6 hours ago, WeaselPie said:

I believe this has already happened.  Consider that GRRM is not planning on having an entire generation pass to put a magical Jon/Dany baby in place as the savior.  The magical baby already exists.

Chapter One GoT tells us outright:

And Chapter One GoT tells us:

And - this is a controversial statement but I think Lyanna may have been a version of whatever Coldhands is.  Unless GRRM intentionally uses a misplaced modifier here, it is Lyanna's palm that is dead and black.

So.  We already have the magic baby born of the dead - Jon Snow.  

Well the idea isn't that any generations will pass. All my theory requires is a couple years, like 2 tops. The baby of Jon and Dany doesn't have to grow to manhood for the Others to use him to break the curse against them. 

Jon's not a baby any more and being brought back to life is just a dead wight like the rest of the Others army.  

I do like that quote though. 

"Maybe she didn't," Jory said. "I've heard tales … maybe the bitch was already dead when the pups came."

"Born with the dead," another man put in. "Worse luck."  This is what i believe caused the Others, when the Night's King gave his seed to the Corpse bride. 

The same argument can be made for Dany as far as her mother dying during labor. Jon, Dany, and Tyrion are all born of death. None of the parents were resurrected dead though. So a litlle different that what im talking about but right up the same alley! :) I definitely see it as  more foreshadowing though. 

My thought is that the Others are trying to reverse this process to lift the curse. 

 

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4 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

Gestalts: the psychic power of the average human is tiny, unable to much of anything on it's own, but when that energy coalesces into a single will, there's real power behind it.

Which i think is a part of how the trees work 

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@AlaskanSandman

Have you read The Ice Dragon? If not, you may be interested in this super cool quote:

Quote

They talked about other things as well. They said it was the chill of that terrible freeze that had killed her mother, stealing in during her long night of labor past the great fire that Adara’s father had built, and creeping under the layers of blankets that covered the birthing bed. And they said that the cold had entered Adara in the womb, that her skin had been pale blue and icy to the touch when she came forth, and that she had never warmed in all the years since. The winter had touched her, left its mark upon her, and made her its own.

I like this thread :D. I will have more comments later, but for now I just want to share one speculation of my own. I think Azor Ahai/Nissa Nissa and the Night's King/Corpse Queen are parallel stories and were 2 totally separate couples from the past, one in Westeros and one in Essos. I think the NK/Corpse Queen union created the Others, and the AA/NN union created the (future) Valyrians. And then they fought a big battle at Battle Isle during the Long Night. My basic line of thinking is, both the Others and Valyrians (and other mysterious things like squishers) appear to be mutated humans, but not mutated so far that they cannot still "breed with the basic" (if we want to use  Thousand Worlds terminology). It may even be the case that stabbing Nissa Nissa in the heart was not an act meant to kill her, but actually some kind of crazy magic spell/sci-fi power to turn her into the first Valyrian. After all, if you are going to completely alter the genes of a living person (without nuclear radiation or something like that), what better way to do so than stabbing them in the heart with some sort of blood-transforming magical sword/device? At least, I could see GRRM writing that into asoiaf, given the context of genetic mutations/alterations in his other stories.

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10 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

@AlaskanSandman

Have you read The Ice Dragon? If not, you may be interested in this super cool quote:

I like this thread :D. I will have more comments later, but for now I just want to share one speculation of my own. I think Azor Ahai/Nissa Nissa and the Night's King/Corpse Queen are parallel stories and were 2 totally separate couples from the past, one in Westeros and one in Essos. I think the NK/Corpse Queen union created the Others, and the AA/NN union created the (future) Valyrians. And then they fought a big battle at Battle Isle during the Long Night. My basic line of thinking is, both the Others and Valyrians (and other mysterious things like squishers) appear to be mutated humans, but not mutated so far that they cannot still "breed with the basic" (if we want to use  Thousand Worlds terminology). It may even be the case that stabbing Nissa Nissa in the heart was not an act meant to kill her, but actually some kind of crazy magic spell/sci-fi power to turn her into the first Valyrian. After all, if you are going to completely alter the genes of a living person (without nuclear radiation or something like that), what better way to do so than stabbing them in the heart with some sort of blood-transforming magical sword/device? At least, I could see GRRM writing that into asoiaf, given the context of genetic mutations/alterations in his other stories.

I have and i really liked it! I think it would be awesome if the two were connected and could totally come up with a narrative linking how. Armies in green with dragons? Garth the greens army, Green King of the God's Eye. The armies in black and orange? The Empire of the Dawn. Adara? The Corpse Queen. (Not NIssa Nissa) 

I think it'd be cool if the Ice Dragon was a kids story with greater ties, like the Hobbit and LOTR. 

Thank you very much!! I've been wanting to attempt to compile all the magic, but took me some time to really develop my own ideas of how i think it all ties together. Sooooo many pieces to have to sift through, and differing ideas on these pieces. Im very much open to ideas and opinions! This covers alot and im sure i have something wrong.

That's an interesting idea about Nissa Nissa and Azor Ahai. There definitely seems to have been a race of Sea Peoples that were probably created by the Mysterious Deep Ones, and another race of Land Peoples mixed with some other Ancient force, The Old Ones. (This is where my speculating ends lol as going deeper than that i dont think we're meant to, thats all Hp Love Craft cosmic entities.) That being said, many of the peoples in our book link back in some way. The Iron Born def seem to tie to the Kraken, a creature of the Deep One. Giants and such think tie to the Old Ones (Cotf) and so to do alot of houses like Gardeners, Starks, etc. The Valyrians seem to me to be a hybred of the Deep Ones and Old Ones Peoples. The Empire of the Dawn and the Realm of the Fisher Queens. 

Now you may be right and i have the orders mixed up. Either way though, the blood of these creatures making its way into humans would explain why such human (Valyrian) would have a hard time breeding with normal humans. Would also explain why only some families are capable of doing magical things like warging Direwolves or riding dragons and more.

I very much look forward to discussing and hearing any and all thoughts or ideas! :D

 

Edited by AlaskanSandman

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23 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Which i think is a part of how the trees work 

Yes, certainly. Explicitly, even. The stretch here is that gods besides the Old Gods are psychic gestalts. Do all religions form gestalts by their very nature? The Drowned Men appear to have a gestalt, as do the Red Priests. Do the Septons? They do start acting pretty hive-mindy after whatever was suppressing the magic gets switched off, but maybe they don't. Maybe the Church of the Seven was specifically chosen (created?) as a counter to the CotF because its seven-faced God doesn't led itself to creating a gestalt that the Children could manipulate.

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35 minutes ago, Damon_Tor said:

Yes, certainly. Explicitly, even. The stretch here is that gods besides the Old Gods are psychic gestalts. Do all religions form gestalts by their very nature? The Drowned Men appear to have a gestalt, as do the Red Priests. Do the Septons? They do start acting pretty hive-mindy after whatever was suppressing the magic gets switched off, but maybe they don't. Maybe the Church of the Seven was specifically chosen (created?) as a counter to the CotF because its seven-faced God doesn't led itself to creating a gestalt that the Children could manipulate.

Yea i tried not to delve into the gods too much and tried to keep it to the magic and magical objects and structures. 

That being said, i tend to completely agree with you about the Gods being hive minded beings.

Which does bring up a counter notion to my idea the Blackstone is really just the petrified black weir trees, but is instead actually some stone from the sea that works the same as the trees and housing these collective spirits.

Which still doesn't alter my End Game theory, but does definitely change some of the dynamics of how the magic objects could be working :)

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