Jon & Dany, true identities ***UPDATING***

[AlaskanSandman]

The events as i can see them from what Jamie says is this (with added notes from Viserys)

• Following Battle of the bells while Cat and Eddard Wed
• Jon Darry and Barristan ride to stoney sept to rally troops
• Rhaegar come north to K.L. Aery's sends for Tywin
• with no word Aerys begins planting wildfire
• Hand Chelsted gets suspicious, confronts Aerys, gets burned, Jamie watches
• That night, Jamie and Jon Darry (Back to K.L.) keep guard as woman raped behind closed doors
• Rhaegar leaves during the day some time after (Next Day?) and talks to Jamie
• 2 weeks pass at least, Rhaegar dies on the Trident
• Word reaches Aerys who sends Rhaella and Viserys to Dragons Stone
• Viserys recalls leaving at night on what sounds like a smugglers boat
• Jamie recalls a hooded woman leaving in the royal wheel house for the awaiting ship during the day (no mention of Viserys)
• At least another 2 weeks pass before Eddard soon to arrive, Rosart and Aerys killed by Jamie.

[Ygrain]

5 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

@Ygrain @maudisdottir @TheSeason

AGOT

*Lyanna & Rhaegar banging in a tower

*Eddard super honorable

*Eddard brings Jon home from the south

*Jon told he is definitely a Stark

*Robert killing Targ babies

*Eddard not ok with killing Targ babies

.........R+L=J.    Literally laid out in the first book. 

*Brandon died days before he was to wed cat. Cat wed's Eddard a year later, Rob born that same year= Brandon died to early to father Jon or Dany

*Eddard again super honorable

*Eddard not ok with killing Targ babies

*Eddard accused of Ashara's death by killing her brother and stealing her child. 

*Jon is the child Eddard got from Tower of Joy and child of R+L.

*Eddard's instant response is that he doesn't kill babies, then warns Cersei to get her children to safety, tipping his hand and getting him killed.

*Eddard took a child from Ashara that was not Jon.

Literally everything is laid out in the first books.

In fact, for 4 books, this is all we know about Ashara Dayne really other than rumors of her and Eddard. Which Jon and Dany are not the child of. 

The details of how everything happened is tricky for both kids exactly, but im working to try to get all the information together in a much more presentable and ordered manner. Ill line up everything the book says that i can and we can debate more in depth from there

Well... before you spend too much time on your theory, there are two things I'd like to point out:

1) you seem to take for fact everything stated without considered the reliability of the source - e.g., the only person accusing Ned of stealing Ashara's child is Cersei, who had third-hand information at best.

2) you take into account what is, or is not, stated, but do not examine how and if people's actions correspond, or contradict, the statements. For example, Barristan's quote about PTWP coming from Aerys and Rhaella's line (singular) might be misremembered, but Aegon V's action corresponds with the singular by having the two married, despite their dislike for each other and his own support of non-incestuous relationship in the family. 

I haven't received any response about Ashara in KL; when I do, I'll let you know.

4 hours ago, TheSeason said:

I can only conclude there was some sort of mistake made by the author, because Jaime should have been guarding Rhaella's door alone that night, not alongside any of his sworn brothers, who should have been elsewhere... but that isn't possible, given that Jaime would have barged into the room, if it were solely him. The other option I can think of is that Jaime's confused Willem Darry, the master-at-arms, with his sworn brother, Jon Darry, in this memory... but that's also ludicrous crackpot, I admit. ETA: the very last crackpot reconciliation I can make is that they waited two weeks, in wartime, with Crown Prince Rhaegar off to battle the Usurper, to name Rossart as Hand of the King, but I really don't see any evidence of a gap between Chelsted and Rossart. Do you guys have any evidence of one?

Hmm... This is a cool catch, whatever it means (mistaken timeline by author or mistaken memory by Jaime). Do you have any quotes or insight that might reconcile this information and make sense of the timeline? Thanks!

People have tried to make sense out of this, and IIRC, came to the conclusion that GRRM plays a bit lose with timelines (and travel times). There is even a catchphrase around the forums, going "GRRM + numbers = nope nope nope". Plus, he is known to have made mistakes in details here and there. If you want more details, Rhaenys_Targaryan is the right person to ask about timelines.

 

 

Sorry for the brevity, I'm afraid I won't have the time for anything longer.

 

[TheSeason]

1 hour ago, Ygrain said:

Well... before you spend too much time on your theory, there are two things I'd like to point out:

1) you seem to take for fact everything stated without considered the reliability of the source - e.g., the only person accusing Ned of stealing Ashara's child is Cersei, who had third-hand information at best.

2) you take into account what is, or is not, stated, but do not examine how and if people's actions correspond, or contradict, the statements. For example, Barristan's quote about PTWP coming from Aerys and Rhaella's line (singular) might be misremembered, but Aegon V's action corresponds with the singular by having the two married, despite their dislike for each other and his own support of non-incestuous relationship in the family. 

I haven't received any response about Ashara in KL; when I do, I'll let you know.

People have tried to make sense out of this, and IIRC, came to the conclusion that GRRM plays a bit lose with timelines (and travel times). There is even a catchphrase around the forums, going "GRRM + numbers = nope nope nope". Plus, he is known to have made mistakes in details here and there. If you want more details, Rhaenys_Targaryan is the right person to ask about timelines.

 

 

Sorry for the brevity, I'm afraid I won't have the time for anything longer.

 

It's all good. I don't have time to say much right now either. Thanks for your answer. I've seen that motto around the boards a lot, and know that she's the queen when it comes to figuring out the timelines, and I know not to expect much from Martin when it comes to timelines and travel times. I don't really sweat that stuff, myself, even in other literary works, but I was asking because this theory hinges on that sort of thing, which Martin told us not to worry about. Nor do I sweat minor detail errors, because I write myself (and you may have noted how verbose I am in some of my comments), and know how hard it is to keep everything straight, even with your notes right beside you or a fresh review in mind, so I'm always in favor of cutting the author some slack with stuff like this (that doesn't really change or mean anything, but actually enhances the characterization and narrative--a fuller look into Aerys II's "legendary, lauded" Kingsguard, with the "finest knights" of the kingdom, who stand outside a door while a woman--any woman, but especially the queen they're foresworn to protect--is raped and have the audacity to claim that because Aerys II is king he can break any law he pleases with impunity (how'd that work out for House Targaryen in the end? House Lannister?), and thereby support the disillusionment of young knights who actually wish to uphold their vows, all of their vows, and believe in the system and all the lies they've been told about it... as well as giving a clearer look at Jaime's youthful idealism and his subsequent brutal disillusionment with knighthood and lifetime organizations, helping the reader to understand better why he's so lost and aimless and willing to sully himself further, etc. As far as "mistakes" go, this is a good one, if ever there was such a thing, because no one would understand Jaime's actions if he were alone on the door, or if he were alone on the door alongside household guards, who he should outrank, even in his youth and inexperience.).

[AlaskanSandman]

1 hour ago, Ygrain said:

Well... before you spend too much time on your theory, there are two things I'd like to point out:

1) you seem to take for fact everything stated without considered the reliability of the source - e.g., the only person accusing Ned of stealing Ashara's child is Cersei, who had third-hand information at best.

2) you take into account what is, or is not, stated, but do not examine how and if people's actions correspond, or contradict, the statements. For example, Barristan's quote about PTWP coming from Aerys and Rhaella's line (singular) might be misremembered, but Aegon V's action corresponds with the singular by having the two married, despite their dislike for each other and his own support of non-incestuous relationship in the family. 

I haven't received any response about Ashara in KL; when I do, I'll let you know.

People have tried to make sense out of this, and IIRC, came to the conclusion that GRRM plays a bit lose with timelines (and travel times). There is even a catchphrase around the forums, going "GRRM + numbers = nope nope nope". Plus, he is known to have made mistakes in details here and there. If you want more details, Rhaenys_Targaryan is the right person to ask about timelines.

 

 

Sorry for the brevity, I'm afraid I won't have the time for anything longer.

 

You argue this point about me and Ashara Dayne and then go on to use Barristan as an example? After i posted that link where GRRM basically states Barristan is a bad narrator and cant remember the past well.

This may be about Cersei, yet, this is still the only info we have on Ashara Dayne that the author has directly given us, for 4 books and near what? 15 years of time? before finally contradicting it with Barristan's account of her child being a daughter and that the daughter was still born. Barristan who we've already established is a bad narrator. So literally the larger amount of time is dedicated to just have the clues out there that Ashara had a possible child that Eddard possibly stole. 

As far as the "line" of Aerys and Rhaella? Rhaegar is born of the line of Aerys and Rhaella, also Rhaegar was born of the lines of Aerys and Rhaella. They are two separate individuals. No matter who you switch it around to it still generally works the same. Other wise why not just simply say TPTWP would be born from the House of Aerys and Rhaella (House Targaryen)? As clearly no one no really knew who the PTWP would be born to. 

You seem to not be considering a few things your self missy

And no problem i totally understand

[Nevets]

42 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

This may be about Cersei, yet, this is still the only info we have on Ashara Dayne that the author has directly given us, for 4 books and near what? 15 years of time? before finally contradicting it with Barristan's account of her child being a daughter and that the daughter was still born. Barristan who we've already established is a bad narrator. So literally the larger amount of time is dedicated to just have the clues out there that Ashara had a possible child that Eddard possibly stole. 

And that child was Jon.  The rumor that Ashara was Jon's mother is mentioned in Catelyn's second chapter in AGOT.  It is therefore logical to assume that Cersei's mention of Ashara's child is referring to Jon, who she probably assumes was taken from Ashara by Ned.   I've seen nothing to indicate that Cersei had any other information, including independent information that Ashara was indeed pregnant at all.

I don't know the reason for the obsession with trying to show Ashara was someone important's mother.  Her importance to the story is most likely her involvement in the events surrounding the Tower of Joy, and the possibility, if she is still alive, that she could shed some light on the whole subject.  There is no reason whatever to believe that she is the mother of either Jon or Daenerys.

With regard to Ashara and Rhaegar, we have no hints of anything between them.  We do, however, have evidence of interest in, or by multiple other men, such as Brandon, Ned, Barristan, and even Howland Reed.  If there was anything between Ashara and Rhaegar, I am confident we would have gotten some indication of it by now.

[maudisdottir]

3 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

As far as the "line" of Aerys and Rhaella? Rhaegar is born of the line of Aerys and Rhaella, also Rhaegar was born of the lines of Aerys and Rhaella. They are two separate individuals. No matter who you switch it around to it still generally works the same. Other wise why not just simply say TPTWP would be born from the House of Aerys and Rhaella (House Targaryen)? As clearly no one no really knew who the PTWP would be born to. 

You're still not addressing the part where they were forced to marry against their wishes. Why marry them to each other if they don't need to produce TPTWP together? It makes no sense to go against Aegon V's own beliefs and force his grandchildren into a marriage to produce a prophesied heir, if either of them could have produced the heir with some other person.

[AlaskanSandman]

8 hours ago, Nevets said:

And that child was Jon.  The rumor that Ashara was Jon's mother is mentioned in Catelyn's second chapter in AGOT.  It is therefore logical to assume that Cersei's mention of Ashara's child is referring to Jon, who she probably assumes was taken from Ashara by Ned.   I've seen nothing to indicate that Cersei had any other information, including independent information that Ashara was indeed pregnant at all.

I don't know the reason for the obsession with trying to show Ashara was someone important's mother.  Her importance to the story is most likely her involvement in the events surrounding the Tower of Joy, and the possibility, if she is still alive, that she could shed some light on the whole subject.  There is no reason whatever to believe that she is the mother of either Jon or Daenerys.

With regard to Ashara and Rhaegar, we have no hints of anything between them.  We do, however, have evidence of interest in, or by multiple other men, such as Brandon, Ned, Barristan, and even Howland Reed.  If there was anything between Ashara and Rhaegar, I am confident we would have gotten some indication of it by now.

Brandon couldnt of fathered any one of importance. This is covered in the thread with textual facts. 

Eddard was too busy and no where near her, and as the text shows, too honorable. You even get a chance to see into Ned's head, and he never thinks about Ashara Dayne. Baristan yes, who never hooked up with her, and Howland who married some one else. 

You dont need Ashara to reveal Jon's truth either when Martin has already said Howland will take center stage in our story. So wrong chekov's gun or what ever you wanna call it. 

Yes the rumor is mentioned by a petty insecure Catelynn. Backed up no where else other than a vague accusation by Edric that they fell in love. Time line doesn't fit them having a kid though. Or was Ashara at Winterfell. something not even closely hinted at or implied.

 

[AlaskanSandman]

6 hours ago, maudisdottir said:

You're still not addressing the part where they were forced to marry against their wishes. Why marry them to each other if they don't need to produce TPTWP together? It makes no sense to go against Aegon V's own beliefs and force his grandchildren into a marriage to produce a prophesied heir, if either of them could have produced the heir with some other person.

Yes i have. How many times must i say it? They interpreted the prophecy wrong, just like Melisandre. Do you need more president or example than that? They also thought the PTWP was a guy. Should i keep gojng with in world characters misunderstanding things? Maesters and magic? History and what the singers say? 

There is nothing brought up to me that i have not addressed.

[SirArthur]

1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

There is nothing brought up to me that i have not addressed.

I have not seen the issue of ... the seed is strong. More specifically why Jon Snow looks like Jon Snow and Dany looks like Dany. The issue is about hair color as Ashara has black hair while Lyanna has brown hair. And how the result with the same genes (all praise incest) would end up so different. More so because we know that Tully seed is stronger than Stark seed (4:1 with Arya as the special snowflake) and Targ silver/blonde seed is stronger than Drogo's seed resulting in Dany's son having silver/blonde hair in her visison. But even your Dany version would be a strong indication for strong Targ seed.

While at the same time there is no Dany Dayne seed needed, because she is (by seed and incest) 1/4 Dyanna Dayne . 

Of course Jon could also be the special snowflake (although we specificly know with no contradiction that Stark Y seed has issues). But this would raise the question about Cersei's children as they also can be special snowflakes. And a story of special snowflakes contradicts the observation. 

 

So ... what's up with Jon's brown hair ?

[AlaskanSandman]

2 hours ago, SirArthur said:

I have not seen the issue of ... the seed is strong. More specifically why Jon Snow looks like Jon Snow and Dany looks like Dany. The issue is about hair color as Ashara has black hair while Lyanna has brown hair. And how the result with the same genes (all praise incest) would end up so different. More so because we know that Tully seed is stronger than Stark seed (4:1 with Arya as the special snowflake) and Targ silver/blonde seed is stronger than Drogo's seed resulting in Dany's son having silver/blonde hair in her visison. But even your Dany version would be a strong indication for strong Targ seed.

While at the same time there is no Dany Dayne seed needed, because she is (by seed and incest) 1/4 Dyanna Dayne . 

Of course Jon could also be the special snowflake (although we specificly know with no contradiction that Stark Y seed has issues). But this would raise the question about Cersei's children as they also can be special snowflakes. And a story of special snowflakes contradicts the observation. 

 

So ... what's up with Jon's brown hair ?

Id say that's a simple example of mixed genes with a Targ and a Stark. Rhaegar and Lyanna.

Rhaenyra's children with Laenor Velaryon or Hawin Strong all had brown hair and eyes. All were also dragon riders

Daeron II married Mariah Martell (Brown hair) and had a few kid

• Baelor Breakspear- Dark Hair who weds Jena Dondarrion ? and have

1. Valarr- Brown Hair with streak of gold- sound like any particular Dayne? Gerold Dayne?
2. Matarys?

• Aerys I ?
• Rhaegel? marries Alys Arryn and 2 kids mysteriously die and 3rd's claim disputed in council of 233AC maybe they looked liked Targs?
• and Maekar who married Dyanna Dayne. Who came to the throne after he mysteriously killed his brother to which he does not remember. Looks full Targaryen. Silver hair purple eyes

Maekar married Dyanna Dayne (?) who have

• Aerion Brightflame- Purple Eyes and silver hair, drinks wildfire
• Daeron- Sandy brown hair with blonde beard
• Maester Aemon ?
• Daella?
• Rhae?
• Aegon V (Egg) marries Betha Blackwood (Who has black hair and eyes)

So the we have Aegon who weds BethaBlackwood who have

• Duncan ?
• Jaehaerys- Silver hair and purple eyes
• Shaera- Silver hair and purple eyes
• Daeron?
• Rhaelle?

Jaehaerys weds Shaera and have

• Aerys - Silver hair purple eyes
• Rhaella-Silver hair purple eyes

Jaehaerys weds Aerys to Rhaella at the order of a woods witch who told him a prophecy. Woods witches receive prophecies in Green Dreams likely sent by Bloodraven who was alive through every one listed in this post minus Rhaenyra.

So how does Jon (Brown) son of Rhaegar (Silver) and Lyanna (Brown) have brown hair? 

Or how does Dany have silver hair despite my claim that she only has one Targaryen parent and, Ashara Dayne (Brown-purple eyes)?

Simple, through all the example of Targs mixing with people who have non silver hair. Causing a mix of genes to show them selves through out different children, as mixing any breed should. 

I dont think the silver hair and purple eyes is tied to their ability to ride or hatch dragons. Just features that got concentrated in them through inbreeding, likely receiving it all through some mixing or something with the Empire of the Dawn or among other colors like Red, are listed to have Amethyst (purple colored eyes)

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys IX

"… want to wake the dragon …"

Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade. "Faster," they cried, "faster, faster." She raced, her feet melting the stone wherever they touched. "Faster!" the ghosts cried as one, and she screamed and threw herself forward. A great knife of pain ripped down her back, and she felt her skin tear open and smelled the stench of burning blood and saw the shadow of wings. And Daenerys Targaryen flew.

 

Amethyst are purple and Tourmaline like a red, and Jade a green. Opal can come in all sorts but typically white and black and most common. Which i attribute to actually being Greenseers marked by the gift of Green sight. They just seem to have concentrated it more to some degree, or at least tried to.

The ancient Valyrians likely had contact with these ancient sea faring race and inter mingled and assimilated what was left of them in that area. While the rest were assimilated in Yi-ti or in Westeros on the Iron Islands and parts of the main land.

 

Edit- Note on House Dondarrion. Their home Blackraven in the Dornish Marches is made of the same Black Basalt that Moat Cailin is built of described as oily when wet like the Sea Stone Chair, Toad Stone, Yeen, and Asshai. 

[AlaskanSandman]

These are all great points and definitely things i need to make sure are covered under the OP. That's why im hoping people are ok with the post growing/ not changing tho, to include these topics brought up under the OP so that any new readers stumbling upon the post may have these issues worked out in the OP with out them having to read all the comments to have it all covered.

[SirArthur]

58 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

These are all great points and definitely things i need to make sure are covered under the OP. 

Just to mention it: House Targaryen has silver-blonde hair since Aegon V, not silver. The wiki says silver for Rhaegar and I'm just in the process of clearing it up in the wiki section of this forum. 

[LynnS]

3 hours ago, SirArthur said:

So ... what's up with Jon's brown hair ?

Robert has sixteen bastards if we are to believe Maggy the Frog.  Only seven are known.  Where are the other nine?  Both Varys and Littlefinger have a keen interest in knowing the identity of the bastards.  LF in particular has control of a number of them considering that he traffics in prostitute and pimps for Robert.  So if one of his girls has a bastard by Robert without black hair and blue eyes; how does LF make any claim that the child is Robert's bastard?  I suspect that they aren't of any use to him politically and he gets rid of them and only keeps the blue-eyed black haired babies.  So when Ned goes looking for the bastards, that's all he finds.          

[SirArthur]

2 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I suspect that they aren't of any use to him politically and he gets rid of them and only keeps the blue-eyed black haired babies.  So when Ned goes looking for the bastards, that's all he finds.          

If we start this we could as well claim one of Cersei's children Robert's. 

[maudisdottir]

4 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Yes i have. How many times must i say it? They interpreted the prophecy wrong, just like Melisandre.

So this falls into the category of "ignoring what the text says". If something doesn't fit with your theory, it's either misinterpretation or an unreliable narrator. You're arguing that TPTWP didn't need to be from the line of both Aerys and Rhaella - based on what? What is in the books that makes you think the prophesy was misinterpreted?

I suspect that there isn't anything, but in order for a particular theory to work it needs to be true. That's not evidence and it's not much fun to discuss either, IMO.

[AlaskanSandman]

19 minutes ago, SirArthur said:

Just to mention it: House Targaryen has silver-blonde hair since Aegon V, not silver. The wiki says silver for Rhaegar and I'm just in the process of clearing it up in the wiki section of this forum. 

Hmmm. That is interesting. Any links to the story or thoughts you have surrounding this yet? Like this is a sign that the platinum maybe associated to the dragon riding was lost and never restored? or just a sign that their blood has further been tainted?

Dany's is platinum though isn't it? or is there other descriptions of it as yellow gold too?

[AlaskanSandman]

11 minutes ago, maudisdottir said:

So this falls into the category of "ignoring what the text says". If something doesn't fit with your theory, it's either misinterpretation or an unreliable narrator. You're arguing that TPTWP didn't need to be from the line of both Aerys and Rhaella - based on what? What is in the books that makes you think the prophesy was misinterpreted?

I suspect that there isn't anything, but in order for a particular theory to work it needs to be true. That's not evidence and it's not much fun to discuss either, IMO.

Why? Just because you cant see it or wrap your head around it? GRRM has clearly made it a point that we have faulty narrators. This is not something i created and in fact would be simpler if he didn't have faulty narrators. The whole story is based around a faulty narrator though, Robert Baratheon and his account that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna and raped her and that their war was just. I mean, that's clearly what the text sates. Yet your telling me that all the millions of people who believe that Rhaegar and Lyanna are Jon's parents are stupid delusional people who are desperately reaching dispite the text clearing stating other wise because others who are adamant that Jon is the child of Eddard and Ashara Dayne cant wrap their heads around it.

Your argument is actually baseless and biased based off your own obvious views of the story. In no way does that change the fact that there are faulty narrators and Barristan Selmy has clearly been displayed as a faulty narrator. Here, let me link it for a 3rd time.....

The information about this tourney is problematic because some details in A Storm of Swords conflict. In response, George R. R. Martin suggested that the outlaw Simon Toyne was already dead by this time and the elderly Ser Barristan misremembered.[15]

 

Quote

 

FEBRUARY 12, 2001

SOME CONTINUITY ODDITIES

[Note: The first part of this entry is an excerpt from a mail in response to a note that there seems to be a continuity error in SoS, concerning the date of the death of the outlaw Simon Toyne and Rhaegar's defeat of him at the tourney at Storm's End, as reported by Ser Barristan early in the book and as recorded in The White Book.]

Ooops. Good catch...

As to this glitch... I think my defense in that the account in The White Book is correct. Ser Barristan is an old man, after all, recounting things that happened in his youth. You ought to see me and my friends sitting around at a con:

ME: Hey, remember Torcon 2, when Joe Haldeman found two naked girls in a bathtub of grape jello. Alice and Angela, wasn't it?

SOMEONE ELSE: It was lime jello, you idiot, and it was Big Mac, not Torcon. Three were three girls -- Betty, Veronica, and Lee.

JOE: Lime jello, two girls, it was Applesusan and Avedon, and it was Discon.

In other words, Ser Barristan is undoubtingly conflating events that happened at two or three different tourneys. Any way, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

 

 

This from a guy who is a knight and is all about fighting, and he cant even remember when a tourney happened or who was even there. Yet you wanna use this guy as a word for word credible witness?

Do explain the logic in this?

 

[SirArthur]

11 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Dany's is platinum though isn't it? or is there other descriptions of it as yellow gold too?

"She's too skinny," Viserys said. His hair, the same silver-blond as hers, had been pulled back tightly behind his head and fastened with a dragonbone brooch. It was a severe look that emphasized the hard, gaunt lines of his face. He rested his hand on the hilt of the sword that Illyrio had lent him, and said, "Are you sure that Khal Drogo likes his women this young?"

aGoT, Dany I

[LynnS]

13 minutes ago, SirArthur said:

If we start this we could as well claim one of Cersei's children Robert's. 

If you're only looking for one thing, that's all you're going to find.  Maggy says specifically that her bastards will have gold hair and we know that they aren't Robert's. 

[AlaskanSandman]

2 minutes ago, SirArthur said:

"She's too skinny," Viserys said. His hair, the same silver-blond as hers, had been pulled back tightly behind his head and fastened with a dragonbone brooch. It was a severe look that emphasized the hard, gaunt lines of his face. He rested his hand on the hilt of the sword that Illyrio had lent him, and said, "Are you sure that Khal Drogo likes his women this young?"

aGoT, Dany I

 

2 minutes ago, LynnS said:

If you're only looking for one thing, that's all you're going to find.  Maggy says specifically that her bastards will have gold hair and we know that they aren't Robert's. 

Yea i was just curious if any one had any thoughts there. I mostly just link gold, silver hair both to the Empire of the dawn. The two houses merely having it as a throw back to their familial connection back in the dawn days