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Sir Hedge of Hog

A Knife in the heart

28 posts in this topic

king arthur fell in the final battle but did not die, he was taken to the isle of Avalon where he rests to return in britains hour of need

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31 minutes ago, Megorova said:

I meant that hobbit Sam is Jaime, not Sam Tarly.

Then it makes sense that Jaime (Sam) will help Tyrion (Frodo) to kill Cersei (Gollum).

Supposedly her first baby was ugly mutant, burnt and covered with scales. If that is thruth (though I doubt that), then it is likely that her second pregnancy may be even worse than first. Only this time she will be the one who will die, and her child will survive.

I'm a foreigner, so you need to explain to me what that means - describe quasi-Arthurian ending possible for Jon. :huh:?

I don't think Samwise=Jaime, Tyrion=Frodo, Cersei=Gollum maps well.

 

By Quasi-Arthurian, I'm referring to King Arthur, and his fate. As Sir Hedge of Hog aptly summarizes:

8 minutes ago, Sir Hedge of Hog said:

king arthur fell in the final battle but did not die, he was taken to the isle of Avalon where he rests to return in britains hour of need

Although, I'm not sure that Jon will fall in battle before leaving. It might be that Jon chooses to leave.

In essence, I suggest that instead of dying, Jon becomes some sort of sleeping eternal guardian. Or perhaps that's what people say/think is what happened to him if he disappears without a body.

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1 hour ago, Megorova said:

Joanna Lannister, Lyanna Stark, Rhaella Targaryen <- Dany's mother. All three died in childbirth. Dany may be a great hero, but she's still just a woman, thus she isn't protected from that sort of possibility, no matter how lame that is.

I'll read that post, but for now I can't even imagine how ASOIAF can have an ending similar to Lord of Rings.

If Dany and Jon, are Arwen and Aragorn, then Tyrion is Frodo? :huh: Then Sam is probably Jaime <_< And Cersei is Gollum :blink:

Just kidding ^_^

Yes I know that they all died in childbirth (although only Lyanna died giving birth to her first child, Rhaella and Joanna died giving birth to their third child.), that's why I think it's lame if they kill of Daenerys in the same way. If she's gonna die, then at least let her go out fighting and in a literal blaze of glory fitting for her character, not as a passive victim.

Nah, I'm not saying that characters in ASoIaF are mirrors of characters in LotR (Even though Cersei is about as obsessed with power as Gollum was with the ring of power. :P ) but that there are many parallels between the two stories, the characters and the possible ending that GRRM has in mind.

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53 minutes ago, Kytheros said:

By Quasi-Arthurian, I'm referring to King Arthur, and his fate. As Sir Hedge of Hog aptly summarizes:

Although, I'm not sure that Jon will fall in battle before leaving. It might be that Jon chooses to leave.

In essence, I suggest that instead of dying, Jon becomes some sort of sleeping eternal guardian. Or perhaps that's what people say/think is what happened to him if he disappears without a body.

I wrote earlier a theory that by bittersweet ending GRRM may mean that Dany and her baby stay in KL, but Jon will return to Night's Watch, to serve there forever as a shield that guards the realms of men, against White Walkers (they returned once, they may return again).

Jon The King on The Wall ^_^

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1 hour ago, MinscS2 said:

Yes I know that they all died in childbirth (although only Lyanna died giving birth to her first child, Rhaella and Joanna died giving birth to their third child.), that's why I think it's lame if they kill of Daenerys in the same way. If she's gonna die, then at least let her go out fighting and in a literal blaze of glory fitting for her character, not as a passive victim.

Nah, I'm not saying that characters in ASoIaF are mirrors of characters in LotR (Even though Cersei is about as obsessed with power as Gollum was with the ring of power. :P ) but that there are many parallels between the two stories, the characters and the possible ending that GRRM has in mind.

I saw this great video yesterday for those who understand Spanish regarding Dany's music in the show. Would recomend his other videos on the music as well as the analysis is really good and its impressive how much is revealed just from the music. 

 

But following her arc through the video and understanding everything behind her music leaves me feeling that her dying in child birth or dying before she becomes Queen would feel very anti-climatic. 

Edited by jcmontea

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2 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Nah, I'm not saying that characters in ASoIaF are mirrors of characters in LotR (Even though Cersei is about as obsessed with power as Gollum was with the ring of power. :P ) but that there are many parallels between the two stories, the characters and the possible ending that GRRM has in mind.

Seems that in LotR and ASOIAF roles of main and secondary characters are reversed.

In LotR main character was Frodo, while Aragorn and Arwen were secondary characters. In ASOIAF main characters are Dany and Jon, while Tyrion is one of secondary characters.

In LotR main character that was supposed to become a greatest hero, by destroying the ring, failed. While A&A became King and Queen, and had a happy end together.

Frodo was supposed to throw the ring into volcano, but in the last moment evil in him won, and he decided to keep the ring instead of destroying it. The ring was destroyed only because of Gollum's intervention, and Frodo was saved by Sam. Though he couldn't become himself again (the way he was before encounter with the ring), so he left with elves to Land of Undying. And Sam got married, had kids and a happy life.

In LotR's ending bitter part was that Frodo failed to accomplish his mission, and after that he was also unable to return to normal life. And sweet part was HEA for A&A.

So similar bittersweet ending of ASOIAF would be if Jon for some reason will be unable to destroy NK, and someone else will do it instead. And after that Jon will go back to The Wall, instead of returning to his past life in Winterfell, or creating a new life with Dany at King's Landing. Dany will die in childbirth. And Tyrion will have a happy end as Regent of 7K, and hand of little King/Queen (Jon and Dany's child).

Or Dany will be in situation where she will have to kill Jon together with Night's King, to Dracarys both of them. Then she will left Westeros and together with her baby will return to Essos.

Spoiler

Or together with Arya she will sail to the west from Westeros. And Tyrion will be sending them off from Casterly Rock. And after King's Landing will be destroyd in Big Battle, new capital will be moved to Westelands <- which is an analogue of Great Britain, where western and middle Europe is other 6 Kingdoms (France is Reach; Sweden, Norwey and Finland are the North, and so on). Also Britain's symbols at sertain time were lions, and France's roses.

If they will sail to the West, they will arrive to the eastern part of Essos, and eventually will end up in Asshai <- city where located main temple of Lord of Light. Where it will be revealed that Dany's son is alive, and he was taken by that witch and given to Red Priests (same people that gave dragon eggs to Dany). Because she also served to Lord of Light, and she willingly sacrificed herself, and let herself be burned alive because it was needed to give life to dragons.

Three dragons = three sacrifices, Dany, Drogo, and witch. So maybe Dany will also die in the Great War, while her daughter will be taken to West by Jorah <- Dany's biggest fan, and Arya <- Jon's biggest fan.

Thus Jon and Dany's daughter and Drogo and Dany's son will restart Targaryen dynasty.

While Tyrion will become King of 7K. <- There was a foreshadowing of this in a promo video where Dany walks towards Iron Throne, and sees Tyrion sitting there.

Seems to me that Jon and Dany are a failed Frodo (one of them will die, how part of Frodo died together with the ring, and the other will go away, same as Frodo left his past life), while Tyrion is a victorious A&A. GRRM did said that Tyrion is his favourite character.

Edited by Megorova

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Lots of you tubers are saying that it's a question pairs ...Jon or dany dieing,  jaime or cersei,  hound or the mountain etc so i can jon dieing over dany , as she will have children . I think her dieing in child birth would be poor... 

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On 9/13/2017 at 9:34 PM, JordanJH1993 said:

I am of the opposite belief. I think Jon will die in the end.

To me, because he has died once, is enough to suggest he will die again. I know the show hasn't played much on the effects death has had on Jon, but it seems senseless to me that he can just go about living a normal life. I don't think the idea that a man that has been brought back to life ends up sitting on the Iron Throne is a route GRRM intended to go down. For me, it seems more likely Jon, having died once, will be prepared, at some point, to make the ultimate sacrifice and die again, probably to save the realm, Daenerys and their child/children. The fact the show has set it up so much for Jon to be the 'heir to the Iron Throne', suggests to me his failure to ever actually sit the Iron Throne, despite probably being the one to save the realm from the Others and the Army of the Dead and having created his own heir with Dany, could be part of the 'bittersweet ending' we are meant to be expecting.

Just my thoughts, though.

I agree. The mythology surrounding Jon's journey could be compared to other saviours deaths and resurrections (Jesus/Skeleton Woman/ life-death-life stories). He will die but his legacy will endure. Perhaps he does warg into Ghost (literally and metaphorically), who goes on to protect Daenerys or his child.

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