Naath mystery

[Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn]

Quote

Missandei said the Peaceful People made music instead of war. They did not kill, not even animals; they ate only fruit and never flesh. The butterfly spirits sacred to their Lord of Harmony protected their isle against those who would do them harm. Many conquerors had sailed on Naath to blood their swords, only to sicken and die. The butterflies do not help them when the slave ships come raiding, though. “I am going to take you home one day, Missandei,” Dany promised. If I had made the same promise to Jorah, would he still have sold me? “I swear it.”

 

Does Missandei mean that ruling clan of Naath allows Naathi people to become slave?

Is she reliable narrator about this matter at all?

 

 

[Tucu]

They are just not capable of protecting people from raids of short duration.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Is there any evidence of a ruling class on Naath? If there is a ruling class on Naath, than the answer to your question is yes, because they are absolute pacifists. 

[The Fattest Leech]

53 minutes ago, Grazdan zo Azer said:

Missandei said the Peaceful People made music instead of war. They did not kill, not even animals; they ate only fruit and never flesh. The butterfly spirits sacred to their Lord of Harmony protected their isle against those who would do them harm. Many conquerors had sailed on Naath to blood their swords, only to sicken and die. The butterflies do not help them when the slave ships come raiding, though. “I am going to take you home one day, Missandei,” Dany promised. If I had made the same promise to Jorah, would he still have sold me? “I swear it.”

53 minutes ago, Grazdan zo Azer said:

 

Does Missandei mean that ruling clan of Naath allows Naathi people to become slave?

Is she reliable narrator about this matter at all?

 

 

Aww. How sweet

[Raisin' Bran]

1 hour ago, Grazdan zo Azer said:

Is she reliable narrator about this matter at all?

I imagine that, at the very least, she has heard plenty about Naath's from the older Naathi since becoming a slave. Although her viewpoint may not be the opinion of a mature person with first-hand experience, she is capable of assimilating an opinion based on the viewpoints of others.

[The Fattest Leech]

23 minutes ago, Grazdan zo Azer said:

Grojmejden zare mezareye oychi.

Nah. Not quite.

[Clegane'sPup]

1 hour ago, Grazdan zo Azer said:

Grojmejden zare mezareye oychi.

This one, ten year old child, who speaks many languages, and was slave but now serve Mhysa does not understand.

[GyantSpyder]

Missandei is shady as hell.

[falcotron]

Based on what we're told in WoIaF, it seems pretty obvious that their actual protection for millennia was the Valyrians. Maybe the Naathi don't understand this, and wonder why their Butterfly God has stopped protecting them against slavers the way he does against conquerors, not knowing that he never protected them against slavers. Or maybe they do know, but their children don't, and Missandei was stolen as a child.

Naath is a (somewhat sick, but) effective metaphor for deregulation, the tragedy of the commons, and cost externalization. (And people say GRRM doesn't understand economics.)

Valyria and her colonies valued Naathi goods (silk, spiced wine, fine handicrafts) as much as Naath slaves. Valyrians, even though they ran a slave-based economy, clearly restricted slavery. They may have even understood economics well enough to realize that too much slaving would destroy the Naathi economy and culture and eliminate the supply of goods, and regulated it with some kind of quota (probably more like medieval Japanese logging  than complicated modern fishing regulation, but simple works fine when you have the power and will to enforce it).

So, for thousands of years, the Naathi didn't have to defend themselves because Valyria protected them from "excessive" slaving. And they could never have defended themselves well enough to throw off the Valyrians and eliminate slaving entirely (since nobody succeeded at that except Braavos, who had to find undesirable land and then build their in secrecy). So it makes sense that they developed a completely pacifist society.

Then the Doom happened, and the slave raids increased so much within a few years that the Naathi abandoned their coastal settlements to move inland. There are no longer any Naathi trade ships, and Naathi goods have become rarer and more expensive every year since presumably there are few people who can venture inland to trade with them. And Naathi slaves have also become rarer. (Presumably the price goes up as the supply dwindles, but there's a limit beyond which people won't pay, because the Naathi are only so much better than other slaves.) So, everybody loses.

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

This one, ten year old child, who speaks many languages, and was slave but now serve Mhysa does not understand.

Her brother is Marselen.

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 hours ago, GyantSpyder said:

Missandei is shady as hell.

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, falcotron said:

Based on what we're told in WoIaF, it seems pretty obvious that their actual protection for millennia was the Valyrians. Maybe the Naathi don't understand this, and wonder why their Butterfly God has stopped protecting them against slavers the way he does against conquerors, not knowing that he never protected them against slavers. Or maybe they do know, but their children don't, and Missandei was stolen as a child.

Naath is a (somewhat sick, but) effective metaphor for deregulation, the tragedy of the commons, and cost externalization. (And people say GRRM doesn't understand economics.)

Valyria and her colonies valued Naathi goods (silk, spiced wine, fine handicrafts) as much as Naath slaves. Valyrians, even though they ran a slave-based economy, clearly restricted slavery. They may have even understood economics well enough to realize that too much slaving would destroy the Naathi economy and culture and eliminate the supply of goods, and regulated it with some kind of quota (probably more like medieval Japanese logging  than complicated modern fishing regulation, but simple works fine when you have the power and will to enforce it).

So, for thousands of years, the Naathi didn't have to defend themselves because Valyria protected them from "excessive" slaving. And they could never have defended themselves well enough to throw off the Valyrians and eliminate slaving entirely (since nobody succeeded at that except Braavos, who had to find undesirable land and then build their in secrecy). So it makes sense that they developed a completely pacifist society.

Then the Doom happened, and the slave raids increased so much within a few years that the Naathi abandoned their coastal settlements to move inland. There are no longer any Naathi trade ships, and Naathi goods have become rarer and more expensive every year since presumably there are few people who can venture inland to trade with them. And Naathi slaves have also become rarer. (Presumably the price goes up as the supply dwindles, but there's a limit beyond which people won't pay, because the Naathi are only so much better than other slaves.) So, everybody loses.

Um... the butterflies (more likely mosquitoes) protect the Naathi by spreading some kinda jungle rot or malaria to which the Naathi are immune. 

ETA

That's why it only fights off occupiers, not raiders. 

[falcotron]

1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Um... the butterflies (more likely mosquitoes) protect the Naathi by spreading some kinda jungle rot or malaria to which the Naathi are immune. 

ETA

That's why it only fights off occupiers, not raiders. 

Yes, of course the butterfly disease only fights off occupiers, not raiders, which is why they're obviously wrong that their Lord of Harmony and his butterflies kept them safe for thousands of years. The only thing that changed was Valyria stopped protecting them from raiders.

(Also, it's worth noting that, according to WoIaF, Ghis was able to conquer and hold Naath three times over the millennia, and Valyria built a huge black stone fort there at some point, implying that the butterfly fever isn't even a perfect defense against invaders, even if it does seem to have driven off the Volantene slavers, the peaceful Rhoynar settlers, and probably many other attempts.)

[GyantSpyder]

13 hours ago, falcotron said:

the butterfly disease only fights off occupiers, not raiders, which is why they're obviously wrong that their Lord of Harmony and his butterflies 

I don't think it means they are strictly wrong. It just means they have anthropomorphized the mechanism by which it works in line with their observed and cultural understanding of it.

If anything it seems like a pretty insightful take, since the Harmony in question involves the relations of symbiosis and parasitism of various organisms.

[Clegane'sPup]

19 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Her brother is Marselen.

Actually I didn't know that. I was trying to be funny,

Spoiler

By the old gods and the new it may be shocking but the child in the book is not the actress on the show.

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

18 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Actually I didn't know that. I was trying to be funny,

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By the old gods and the new it may be shocking but the child in the book is not the actress on the show.

 

I didn't mind the adaptation. Her and Roz made up for the loss of Arianne and the Myrish Swamp.