Qavo Nogarys

Jorah's ear

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In AGOT, Mormont loses half of his ear in a fight with Qotho, but I don't recall any further mentions of this. Not that Jorah is pretty guy, but still, seems weird that it's not mentioned anywhere after... 

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2 hours ago, Qavo Nogarys said:

In AGOT, Mormont loses half of his ear in a fight with Qotho, but I don't recall any further mentions of this. Not that Jorah is pretty guy, but still, seems weird that it's not mentioned anywhere after... 

I've actually thought of this too. My simple answer is that amongst warriors, free companies and especially dothraki half an ear missing off an exile who lives by his sword is fairly common.

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3 hours ago, YOVMO said:

I've actually thought of this too. My simple answer is that amongst warriors, free companies and especially dothraki half an ear missing off an exile who lives by his sword is fairly common.

Yeah, but I was thinking about Dany and Tyrion, through which POV we mostly see Jorah.

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I think he's such a brutish looking guy that half an ear sort of fits his look.

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From this point forward all anyone will ever notice is the demon brand on his face.

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Honestly, I think Martin simply forgot he wrote about it, the same way he seems to forget that he gave Jon Snow facial scars from Orell's eagle. 

That demon brand, though! Tyrion thought half a nose was ghastly. Mormont has half an ear, a demon brand (on a battered face that might have broken his nose a few times or done other damage to important facial structures), and shaggy, bristly hair out the wazoo. He's one scary looking guy since Dance! 

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44 minutes ago, TheSeason said:

Honestly, I think Martin simply forgot he wrote about it, the same way he seems to forget that he gave Jon Snow facial scars from Orell's eagle. 

That demon brand, though! Tyrion thought half a nose was ghastly. Mormont has half an ear, a demon brand (on a battered face that might have broken his nose a few times or done other damage to important facial structures), and shaggy, bristly hair out the wazoo. He's one scary looking guy since Dance! 

I think Jon Snow's facial scars don't get mentioned much because (a) they're relatively minor, and (b) we're usually sitting in his POV. Jon's not that big on staring into mirrors, so unless the scars are significant and/or impact his day-to-day life/activities, there'd be no reason for him to dwell on them.

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26 minutes ago, Kytheros said:

I think Jon Snow's facial scars don't get mentioned much because (a) they're relatively minor, and (b) we're usually sitting in his POV. Jon's not that big on staring into mirrors, so unless the scars are significant and/or impact his day-to-day life/activities, there'd be no reason for him to dwell on them.

The problem is that we don't really know how minor or severe Jon's scars are. He thought he lost an eye when he was first clawed, but afterward we don't hear about them hurting, healing, itching, or scarring over (like the way he dwells on his burned hand), let alone affecting his smile (just the tightness of the keloids should be noticeable to him) or other facial expression. Facial scarring can also affect a person's self-esteem or self-image, making them more self-conscious and timid about their perception or reception by others. Jon isn't a very self-absorbed person obsessed with his looks (even though I'm convinced he must be fairly handsome), but it's hard to believe it wouldn't impact the way he relates to women at all, especially when they flirt with or come on to him, because Jon is already self-conscious about sex and women (because of his bastardy). After he gets these scars, however, they more-or-less just disappear from the narrative. Ygritte laments them immediately after it happens, and Mance sees him at the Fist of the First Men and asks what happened to his face... I don't remember much of anything else, though... Maybe Varamyr mentions it in passing, when talking about how he hates Jon after stealing Orell's eagle? But I thought that had more to do with Jon killing Orell than Orell clawing Jon's face in revenge... :dunno: Anyway, I'm willing to accept that they're probably minor enough (though still should be noticeable, even from Jon's own POV) but also that Martin likely just forgot he gave him facial scars as part of his Mithraic imagery.

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2 hours ago, TheSeason said:

The problem is that we don't really know how minor or severe Jon's scars are. He thought he lost an eye when he was first clawed, but afterward we don't hear about them hurting, healing, itching, or scarring over (like the way he dwells on his burned hand), let alone affecting his smile (just the tightness of the keloids should be noticeable to him) or other facial expression. Facial scarring can also affect a person's self-esteem or self-image, making them more self-conscious and timid about their perception or reception by others. Jon isn't a very self-absorbed person obsessed with his looks (even though I'm convinced he must be fairly handsome), but it's hard to believe it wouldn't impact the way he relates to women at all, especially when they flirt with or come on to him, because Jon is already self-conscious about sex and women (because of his bastardy). After he gets these scars, however, they more-or-less just disappear from the narrative. Ygritte laments them immediately after it happens, and Mance sees him at the Fist of the First Men and asks what happened to his face... I don't remember much of anything else, though... Maybe Varamyr mentions it in passing, when talking about how he hates Jon after stealing Orell's eagle? But I thought that had more to do with Jon killing Orell than Orell clawing Jon's face in revenge... :dunno: Anyway, I'm willing to accept that they're probably minor enough (though still should be noticeable, even from Jon's own POV) but also that Martin likely just forgot he gave him facial scars as part of his Mithraic imagery.

Mithraic? I'm unfamiliar with the relevant details. I was leaning a bit towards Odin.

 

At any rate, the wound is implied to be minor - "It's only blood, Jon Snow. He missed the eye, just ripped your skin up some." Head wounds, no matter how minor, tend to bleed a lot. Given that the wound is not mentioned after Mance tells Jon to get it seen to, I expect the actual damage was minor.

Especially since for the blood to be getting into Jon's eye, it has to be his eyebrow/forehead that got hit, not the cheek.

Given a bit of medical attention, maybe a few stitches, a poultice and some sort of bandage/wrapping, it likely wouldn't bother him much while healing or even after. I mean, it's the forehead/eyebrow - sure, it moves some, but not all that much. The only place a facial injury of the flesh would have lasting/persistent and noticeable effects on your daily life would be cheeks, around the mouth, and nose - ie, places that move around, or affect breathing. By comparison, the forehead/eyebrow isn't doesn't have much muscle to get messed up or bothered by injury/scarring.

 

 

Also, I'm not sure Jon actually has scars. Not every injury results in scars, after all.

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8 hours ago, TheSeason said:

Honestly, I think Martin simply forgot he wrote about it, the same way he seems to forget that he gave Jon Snow facial scars from Orell's eagle. 

That demon brand, though! Tyrion thought half a nose was ghastly. Mormont has half an ear, a demon brand (on a battered face that might have broken his nose a few times or done other damage to important facial structures), and shaggy, bristly hair out the wazoo. He's one scary looking guy since Dance! 

Seems most likely, but I don't want to believe it though. :/ I've grown accustomed to the way GRRM keeps track of everything, this just doesn't feel right.

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8 hours ago, Kytheros said:

Mithraic? I'm unfamiliar with the relevant details. I was leaning a bit towards Odin.

 

At any rate, the wound is implied to be minor - "It's only blood, Jon Snow. He missed the eye, just ripped your skin up some." Head wounds, no matter how minor, tend to bleed a lot. Given that the wound is not mentioned after Mance tells Jon to get it seen to, I expect the actual damage was minor.

Especially since for the blood to be getting into Jon's eye, it has to be his eyebrow/forehead that got hit, not the cheek.

Given a bit of medical attention, maybe a few stitches, a poultice and some sort of bandage/wrapping, it likely wouldn't bother him much while healing or even after. I mean, it's the forehead/eyebrow - sure, it moves some, but not all that much. The only place a facial injury of the flesh would have lasting/persistent and noticeable effects on your daily life would be cheeks, around the mouth, and nose - ie, places that move around, or affect breathing. By comparison, the forehead/eyebrow isn't doesn't have much muscle to get messed up or bothered by injury/scarring.

 

 

Also, I'm not sure Jon actually has scars. Not every injury results in scars, after all.

Jon as Mithras and Jon as Odin work equally well, actually, so the imagery is all jumbled up together. He's also Jon Barleycorn/the Corn King, Arthur Pendragon, and some other folks. Lol. ^_^ 

Mithra (Iranian)/Mithras (Roman) are the same/similar god(s) with two different sets of iconography, scripture, and means of worship. There are some aspects of blinding/enlightenment in his worship, as well as the Iranian Mithra being the god of "Wide Pastures, of the Thousand Ears, of the Myriad Eyes" and "Who has Ten Thousand Eyes" (star eyes, I think) and being undeceivable, sleepless, and ever-vigilant etc. In both versions, he is a sun-god, a judge, all-seeing, enlightening Apollonian figure. The Roman worshippers believed he started/ended/saved the world (literally or metaphysically, it isn't certain) and is associated with the heavens, the constellations, the spiritual journey... They worshipped him in "temple caves" with little iconography and whitewashed walls. 

Anyway, @LML talks about it a bunch in his essay series. 

 

Not all injuries result in scars, no, but Orell's eagle was trying to blind/kill him in revenge (for slaying Orell), and really ripped into his face (clawing more than once, I should imagine). Keep in mind that when you're on your back, your blood flows everywhere (path of least resistance to the ground) so it's entirely possible for blood from the cheeks to end up in your eyes. And you're right, even the most minor head wound bleeds a lot. We don't know where Jon was clawed or how severe it was, actually. The textual evidence you provided makes that clear. "He missed the eye" (You're not blind, your eye is fine--he probably couldn't see out of it because of all the blood) and "just ripped your skin up some" (not your forehead, cheeks, face, etc. "Skin" is torn... but that was a given). 

Scar tissue does not have to be especially thick or ugly to be noticeable (from someone else's perspective or from your own), and healing takes time and should be felt (even a paper cut can be bothersome for a few days, so getting clawed in the face by an eagle should be something the author mentions; he remembers Jon's burned hand because it's so significant but forgets Jon's face because it's a secondary or tertiary symbol, like the throw-away "Pegasus" mentions of "winged horse" or "horse had wings" that Dany and Jon both get, as well as someone else I'm forgetting... hmm. And that's okay. Martin doesn't have to keep track of everything. Sometimes an author just forgets because he has more important things on his mind. Sometimes something appears in one chapter and vanishes after the next.). And even if the scar is on his forehead (which I think it's above and below his eye, because of the way an eagle's talons clutch) as you suggest, a wound is painful, a healing wound is itchy or might burn/tingle, a scar is itchy as hell, and scar tissue is smooth and tight (and people move their foreheads/eyebrows a lot more than you imply). If he didn't scar, that's one thing (and doubtful), but being clawed in the face is a bigger deal than Martin would lead the reader to believe (with his forgetfulness, lol). 

 

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5 hours ago, Qavo Nogarys said:

Seems most likely, but I don't want to believe it though. :/ I've grown accustomed to the way GRRM keeps track of everything, this just doesn't feel right.

I think it's most likely, too. But Martin doesn't keep track of everything, nor should he. Keeping track of everything, whether it's significant or not is absurd. He should (and does) keep a hierarchy of events and symbols and themes in mind/on hand, though, and keep track of the primary and secondary ones with all due diligence, and juggle the tertiary ones as necessary, but we can let him slide on everything lesser than that! We do want those books, after all! :P

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20 hours ago, Qavo Nogarys said:

In AGOT, Mormont loses half of his ear in a fight with Qotho, but I don't recall any further mentions of this. Not that Jorah is pretty guy, but still, seems weird that it's not mentioned anywhere after... 

I think scars and injuries are important to GRRM but they don't have to be mentioned frequently. He has said that he wants us to re-read the books to pick up on details. Dropping a little hint like this about Ser Jorah's wounds is part of the trail of bread crumbs the author has given us to follow so he doesn't belabor it unless or until it becomes important to bring it up for some reason.

My theory about the Dothraki is that they are symbolic northmen. Or, at least, a mummer version of Westeros. So, for instance, when Dany watches men and women dancing naked at her wedding celebration and one man kills another in a fight over a woman, that could represent Rhaegar, Robert and Lyanna. The killer at the wedding ends up with a different woman, not the one he supposedly was willing to kill for.

Ser Jorah cuts the arm off of Qotho; a Dothraki named Zollo cuts off Jaime's arm. Brienne (linked to Jaime) bites off Vargo Hoat's ear; Qotho cuts off Jorah's ear. Jaime's daughter, Myrcella, also loses an ear to the sword of Darkstar. I don't think we are supposed to directly compare Ser Jorah to Vargo Hoat or Myrcella (although there are almost certainly layers of meaning I haven't recognized in GRRM's creation of parallel injuries), but this falls into the kind of "mosaic" of symbolism we've seen in other parts of the books. In a nutshell, there's a connection between Jaime's and/or Brienne's arc and Jorah's arc. Maybe they are all heroes and the ear is GRRM's way of signalling that.

I am particularly interested in injuries that symbolize cutting off the five senses: ears, eyes, tongues, noses, maybe fingers or hands. It seems pretty certain that blind Maester Aemon and one-eyed Bloodraven have extra insights not visible to others (a thousand eyes and one). And Arya, as Blind Beth, learns to "see" using her other senses and her skinchanging ability. But will visual impairment also lead to superior vision for Crowfood Umber and Timett son of Timett? The juries are not yet in on those characters, in my opinion.

So I don't know if the missing ear represents a special ability to hear things. Gared, from the prologue, lost both ears to frostbite. He seemed to have a special knowledge of how to protect oneself against the cold - except when Ice took his head off. Jon's NW brother Dywin says he can smell cold. All of this gets at the way the author uses the five senses in the books, but I don't know exactly where it leads or what it means.

I do suspect that the way one is maimed is important - Jaime will probably have a lifelong conflict with the Dothraki. The Daynes may come up again in Myrcella's storyline. Crowfood Umber already got his revenge on the crow that took his eye, biting its head off. Does the Dothraki cutting of Ser Jorah's ear foreshadow his exile by the Khaleesi?

"Injuries to the Five Senses in ASOIAF" would probably be a good subject for someone's term paper.

9 hours ago, Kytheros said:

Especially since for the blood to be getting into Jon's eye, it has to be his eyebrow/forehead that got hit, not the cheek.

You've hit the nail on the head, so to speak. The eagle getting blood in Jon's eye is a symbolic opening of his third eye, I suspect. Just as Bran dreamed of the three-eyed crow pecking his forehead to urge him to open his third eye. As @TheSeason mentions, Ygritte and Mance both notice and remark on the wounds - I suspect this is GRRM's way of letting us know that these key free folk notice that Jon is a greenseer and that others do not notice. So the bird-inflicted wound is only important in showing that Jon got his greenseeing initiation from a wildling, skinchanged bird of prey, unlike Bran, who got his initiation from a dream raven (although probably skinchanged by Bloodraven in some way). Jon is on team Free Folk, Bran is on team Bloodraven.

This brings us back to Mors "Crowfood" Umber, though. Is he marked as a greenseer because he loses an eye to a bird? Or does the wound have to be on the forehead? Mors also loses a daughter to the wildlings. Great Jon Umber loses fingers to Greywind, the direwolf of Robb Stark. I suspect that "Houses" sometimes represent a single being, for the purpose of ASOIAF symbolism. So the Umber injuries may add up to a larger pattern or parallel. I suspect the Umbers are the embodiment of the northmen vs. free folk or The North vs. Beyond-the-Wall conflict, but there may be more to it.

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54 minutes ago, Seams said:

I think scars and injuries are important to GRRM but they don't have to be mentioned frequently. He has said that he wants us to re-read the books to pick up on details. Dropping a little hint like this about Ser Jorah's wounds is part of the trail of bread crumbs the author has given us to follow so he doesn't belabor it unless or until it becomes important to bring it up for some reason.

My theory about the Dothraki is that they are symbolic northmen. Or, at least, a mummer version of Westeros. So, for instance, when Dany watches men and women dancing naked at her wedding celebration and one man kills another in a fight over a woman, that could represent Rhaegar, Robert and Lyanna. The killer at the wedding ends up with a different woman, not the one he supposedly was willing to kill for.

Ser Jorah cuts the arm off of Qotho; a Dothraki named Zollo cuts off Jaime's arm. Brienne (linked to Jaime) bites off Vargo Hoat's ear; Qotho cuts off Jorah's ear. Jaime's daughter, Myrcella, also loses an ear to the sword of Darkstar. I don't think we are supposed to directly compare Ser Jorah to Vargo Hoat or Myrcella (although there are almost certainly layers of meaning I haven't recognized in GRRM's creation of parallel injuries), but this falls into the kind of "mosaic" of symbolism we've seen in other parts of the books. In a nutshell, there's a connection between Jaime's and/or Brienne's arc and Jorah's arc. Maybe they are all heroes and the ear is GRRM's way of signalling that.

I am particularly interested in injuries that symbolize cutting off the five senses: ears, eyes, tongues, noses, maybe fingers or hands. It seems pretty certain that blind Maester Aemon and one-eyed Bloodraven have extra insights not visible to others (a thousand eyes and one). And Arya, as Blind Beth, learns to "see" using her other senses and her skinchanging ability. But will visual impairment also lead to superior vision for Crowfood Umber and Timett son of Timett? The juries are not yet in on those characters, in my opinion.

So I don't know if the missing ear represents a special ability to hear things. Gared, from the prologue, lost both ears to frostbite. He seemed to have a special knowledge of how to protect oneself against the cold - except when Ice took his head off. Jon's NW brother Dywin says he can smell cold. All of this gets at the way the author uses the five senses in the books, but I don't know exactly where it leads or what it means.

I do suspect that the way one is maimed is important - Jaime will probably have a lifelong conflict with the Dothraki. The Daynes may come up again in Myrcella's storyline. Crowfood Umber already got his revenge on the crow that took his eye, biting its head off. Does the Dothraki cutting of Ser Jorah's ear foreshadow his exile by the Khaleesi?

"Injuries to the Five Senses in ASOIAF" would probably be a good subject for someone's term paper.

You've hit the nail on the head, so to speak. The eagle getting blood in Jon's eye is a symbolic opening of his third eye, I suspect. Just as Bran dreamed of the three-eyed crow pecking his forehead to urge him to open his third eye. As @TheSeason mentions, Ygritte and Mance both notice and remark on the wounds - I suspect this is GRRM's way of letting us know that these key free folk notice that Jon is a greenseer and that others do not notice. So the bird-inflicted wound is only important in showing that Jon got his greenseeing initiation from a wildling, skinchanged bird of prey, unlike Bran, who got his initiation from a dream raven (although probably skinchanged by Bloodraven in some way). Jon is on team Free Folk, Bran is on team Bloodraven.

This brings us back to Mors "Crowfood" Umber, though. Is he marked as a greenseer because he loses an eye to a bird? Or does the wound have to be on the forehead? Mors also loses a daughter to the wildlings. Great Jon Umber loses fingers to Greywind, the direwolf of Robb Stark. I suspect that "Houses" sometimes represent a single being, for the purpose of ASOIAF symbolism. So the Umber injuries may add up to a larger pattern or parallel. I suspect the Umbers are the embodiment of the northmen vs. free folk or The North vs. Beyond-the-Wall conflict, but there may be more to it.

Just want to add, remember that Bran opens Jon's third eye (gently) in the "dream"/skinchanging sequence when Jon was in the Frostfangs with Qhorin Halfhand. He dreams that he is ghost and meets his brother Bran as a weirwood tree, who reaches down to open his third eye, this as he is skinchanged in Ghost, spying on Mance's army in the Milkwater River, when Orell's eagle first swoops upon and claws him (as Ghost) in the side. Qhorin sacrifices his men to reunite Ghost and Jon Snow, so Ghost might be healed, and they might infiltrate the Wildling band. 

Jon kills Orell and steals Ygritte, then, and Orell (in his eagle) later has his revenge during this scene, a "secondary" opening of the third eye sequence. 

However, Jon Snow appears unique in that he did not suffer a (blinding) trauma in order to have his third eye opened. This is because of Bran, who spares his brother the agony of loss to ascend to that height of enlightenment. I think this is important because it will come up again, once Jon dies and is reborn, possibly having something to do with his descent into the crypts (death) whereupon he meets his mother (queen of the underworld/queen of winter) and ascends into heaven (being a Messianic Christ figure) to work his magic as the Corn King (the creator aspect of the triune deity). 

At this point, I'm starting to wonder if I have derailed the thread from discussing Jorah's ear, so I'm going to shut it, now. I do like your analysis of how trauma is important in determining the character's path (Jaime's loss of hand directs him to become a "hand of the king" figure and "kingmaker" archetype; Brienne's injury to her face/loss of her "beauty" equates to the stain on her honor when Lady Stoneheart requires her to kill Jaime with Oathkeeper; Bran's loss of legs and opening of the third eye drive him to become a "rider"/skinchanger rather than a "mount"/knight according to the "knights as beasts/mounts" for lords/kings to direct theme, etc.). 

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1 hour ago, Seams said:

This brings us back to Mors "Crowfood" Umber, though. Is he marked as a greenseer because he loses an eye to a bird? Or does the wound have to be on the forehead? Mors also loses a daughter to the wildlings. Great Jon Umber loses fingers to Greywind, the direwolf of Robb Stark. I suspect that "Houses" sometimes represent a single being, for the purpose of ASOIAF symbolism. So the Umber injuries may add up to a larger pattern or parallel. I suspect the Umbers are the embodiment of the northmen vs. free folk or The North vs. Beyond-the-Wall conflict, but there may be more to it.

Hi Seams ! Very interesting considering that Umber have a chained giant as a blaze. That's not the first time that we see giants in the Stark's neighborhood (Jon + Val + Wun wun or Sansa at the Eyrie, just for example); and also there is a parallelism between Great Jon who becomes Robb's best fan after he lost his fingers, and Davos the loyal servant of Stannis who keeps his fingers in a pocket as a sign of an unbreakable link.

 

1 hour ago, Seams said:

My theory about the Dothraki is that they are symbolic northmen. Or, at least, a mummer version of Westeros. So, for instance, when Dany watches men and women dancing naked at her wedding celebration and one man kills another in a fight over a woman, that could represent Rhaegar, Robert and Lyanna. The killer at the wedding ends up with a different woman, not the one he supposedly was willing to kill for.

I like it ! To add some elements : some Stark have horsefaces, some are found of horses, and some others are shaggy like bears and Dany had two "fathers" that she calls "Old bear" : Jorah and ser Willem Darry. 

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2 hours ago, TheSeason said:

I think it's most likely, too. But Martin doesn't keep track of everything, nor should he. Keeping track of everything, whether it's significant or not is absurd. He should (and does) keep a hierarchy of events and symbols and themes in mind/on hand, though, and keep track of the primary and secondary ones with all due diligence, and juggle the tertiary ones as necessary, but we can let him slide on everything lesser than that! We do want those books, after all! :P

Yeah, I know... I didn't mean to sound nitpicky. It's just that I was doing a reread and was like: Wait, Jorah lost half his ear in a fight? :o 

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While he is balding he is still very hairy. He may be able to grow enough hair from the side of his head and the ear itself to hide it.

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2 hours ago, Seams said:

Ser Jorah cuts the arm off of Qotho; a Dothraki named Zollo cuts off Jaime's arm. Brienne (linked to Jaime) bites off Vargo Hoat's ear; Qotho cuts off Jorah's ear. Jaime's daughter, Myrcella, also loses an ear to the sword of Darkstar. I don't think we are supposed to directly compare Ser Jorah to Vargo Hoat or Myrcella (although there are almost certainly layers of meaning I haven't recognized in GRRM's creation of parallel injuries), but this falls into the kind of "mosaic" of symbolism we've seen in other parts of the books. In a nutshell, there's a connection between Jaime's and/or Brienne's arc and Jorah's arc. Maybe they are all heroes and the ear is GRRM's way of signalling that.

I am particularly interested in injuries that symbolize cutting off the five senses: ears, eyes, tongues, noses, maybe fingers or hands. It seems pretty certain that blind Maester Aemon and one-eyed Bloodraven have extra insights not visible to others (a thousand eyes and one). And Arya, as Blind Beth, learns to "see" using her other senses and her skinchanging ability. But will visual impairment also lead to superior vision for Crowfood Umber and Timett son of Timett? The juries are not yet in on those characters, in my opinion.

So I don't know if the missing ear represents a special ability to hear things. Gared, from the prologue, lost both ears to frostbite. He seemed to have a special knowledge of how to protect oneself against the cold - except when Ice took his head off. Jon's NW brother Dywin says he can smell cold. All of this gets at the way the author uses the five senses in the books, but I don't know exactly where it leads or what it means.

I do suspect that the way one is maimed is important - Jaime will probably have a lifelong conflict with the Dothraki. The Daynes may come up again in Myrcella's storyline. Crowfood Umber already got his revenge on the crow that took his eye, biting its head off. Does the Dothraki cutting of Ser Jorah's ear foreshadow his exile by the Khaleesi?

 

When Viserys tried to hurt Dany in the Drothraki sea, one of her riders said she should take an ear to teach him respect. It seems an odd connection, but might work consistently. One of Tyrion's mountain men followers took ears as a trophy or a status symbol. The Hound has had so many ear injuries he must look like an old fashioned doberman.

Quite a mixed bag of ears.

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5 hours ago, Qavo Nogarys said:

Yeah, I know... I didn't mean to sound nitpicky. It's just that I was doing a reread and was like: Wait, Jorah lost half his ear in a fight? :o 

I was just teasing! :grouphug: Martin can't keep track of everything, nor should he try, but he does manage to keep track of the most important things, I think. And it's fun to find those little details on rereads, too. 

 

5 hours ago, Springwatch said:

When Viserys tried to hurt Dany in the Drothraki sea, one of her riders said she should take an ear to teach him respect. It seems an odd connection, but might work consistently. One of Tyrion's mountain men followers took ears as a trophy or a status symbol. The Hound has had so many ear injuries he must look like an old fashioned doberman.

Quite a mixed bag of ears.

I like this connection! Great find! :cheers:

Taking an ear teaches respect because it reminds the person maimed to listen. Jorah, especially, needs to learn respect of others, especially where Dany, Tyrion, and slaves are concerned. He informed on Dany and tried to force his affections upon her, kissing his queen without her consent, trying to weasel his way into her bed by suggesting he could be her husband and a "dragonrider" like "Aegon and his sisters," etc. Tyrion he takes as a slave, even after going through the motions of freeing slaves and learning their misery at Dany's side in Slaver's Bay. That's especially horrifying, because it's not that he didn't learn anything, it's just that he doesn't care about other people's suffering. He wasn't horrified by the Dothraki raiding, raping, and enslaving the Lhazareen, and counseled Dany that it was how wars were won and she should let it go ("There's a beast inside of every man," he said, or something like that, "and when their blood is up..." etc.), nor was he outraged by Astapori Masters' cruelty, and the suffering of the Unsullied and the slave women whose children are murdered and whose lives are paid for (to the slaver, of course, the coin is not for her suffering), and the lives of the slain children it took to become Unsullied (or the puppies, as well), and counseled Dany that she shouldn't "buy" them with her dragon because they weren't worth it, a dragon having more value (Barry counseled the same, but he's hardly known for his compassion, either; and Dany didn't "buy" them anyway, but went back on her deal and butchered the Astapori in an event that was a confusing muddle of liberation of slaves and flat-out war crime). He had no reaction to the crucified children on the road to Meereen, that I recall, nor to Dany's crucifixion of the Masters of Meereen (Barry counseled her against that monstrosity and war crime, and even she regretted it and felt sick at their suffering). He's also a slaver from back in the day, too, and would have been executed for it had he not fled righteous Stark justice on that case, and he has the audacity to hold a grudge against Ned Stark because of it, so he didn't learn anything from that escapade either.

It's only when he becomes a slave and experiences this mistreatment and indignity first hand that he learns to care about it, and that's pretty much just for himself and his own benefit, which is sort of okay--he's supposed to care about his own welfare and suffering, of course--but it's also disgusting, because he still shows little-to-no concern for anyone else's suffering. Tyrion manages to save his life--getting Yezzan and Nurse to buy him--but instead of making a contribution to their (Tyrion, Penny, and Jorah's) welfare and success at surviving and escaping this misery, he instead fights until he's beaten and broken (and branded; again, there's that refusal to listen and understand, coming into his storyline) until he simply shuts down, wallowing in his own misery (I understand he's depressed, but so are Tyrion, who at least starts making an effort to become functional, which is a step down the road to recovery and/or managing one's depression, and Penny, I don't know where her tale's headed, so I cannot comment).

It isn't until Tyrion saves his life again (getting him to the free company, the Second Sons with Brown Ben Plumm, and then convincing them to switch sides to Dany once more) that he even makes any attempt to contribute to his--or anyone's--welfare and survival (and just surviving such a situation is A-Okay, there's no one who can demand more of anyone) and that's only because he hopes he can weasel his way back into Dany's camp, and favor (or heart and bed--still refusing to listen to what she wants or even acknowledge how he hurt her; he essentially "sold" her to Robert Baratheon for his own benefit, like he sold those slaves, like he enslaved Tyrion to sell him to Dany in exchange for a pardon/her favor/entry back to her court...).

Jorah has a major problem listening to, understanding, and respecting others. So, in that respect, he needed that reminder--and it's especially significant that he was maimed by a Dothraki, who will become Dany's khalasar en masse, who remained loyal to his khal and obeyed his wishes and commands (that particular Dorthraki, Qotho, was loyal to Drogo, and his wishes--Drogo absolutely did not want Mirri Maz Durr to perform any more healing on him, let alone verboten magic rituals, which resulted in the death of his son, no less, and he'd have wanted Dany to honor her obligation to become a "crone" of Vaes Dothrak as part of the Dosh Khaleen; Dany did not care what he wanted, and overrode him as he tried to tell her "no" with his last breath. Qotho, remaining loyal to Drogo, tried to honor his wishes to die naturally even if it meant turning on Dany, who'd aligned herself with a witch and turned to verboten magic to attain her goals). 

Also, aren't one of the Mountain Men clans called the Black Ears (or something to that effect)? Chella was their leader, I think. They're the ones who take ears as trophies, because they wear them around their necks on a gruesome necklace. 

Edited by TheSeason

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