purple-eyes Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 nice post. I think this is the biggest proof that Aegon is not real. Otherwise there is no way that they did not even try to inform Dorne about Aegon during this many years. they were likely afraid House Martell would be able to investigate and eventually figure out Aegon is fake if they were informed earlier and have plenty of time to do so. And there are a lot of people who knew Elia very well in Dorne, if Aegon was raised there, they would realize he did not have anything similar with Elia in his look. She is his mother, even he did not take her hair or eye color, he had to have some feature similar to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 21 hours ago, Pikachu101 said: Imagine though Varys sends Aegon to Illyrio only for him to die, to cover this up Illyrio just replaces the baby and Varys would never know. possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo of House Cartel Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Good question. Always wondered what went down when Oberyn visited the Sealord's manse in Braavos. Why not just take the lad there and then? Seems odd that the Red Viper, he of fiery passion and cold calculation, would be in the presence of his beloved Elia's long lost son and not demand that this Prince of Dorne be returned to Sunspear post haste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikachu101 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 15 hours ago, purple-eyes said: nice post. I think this is the biggest proof that Aegon is not real. Otherwise there is no way that they did not even try to inform Dorne about Aegon during this many years. they were likely afraid House Martell would be able to investigate and eventually figure out Aegon is fake if they were informed earlier and have plenty of time to do so. And there are a lot of people who knew Elia very well in Dorne, if Aegon was raised there, they would realize he did not have anything similar with Elia in his look. She is his mother, even he did not take her hair or eye color, he had to have some feature similar to her. This was why I was so certain that Aegon is asoiaf's Perkin Warbeck it just seems too good to be true for Elia's son to pop up right at the end of the series and be crowned king. But at the same time why would Varys lie to Kevan when he's about to kill him? As for not looking like Elia neither did the original Aegon, and I just realised everyone fancasts Elia and Rhaenys as brown but Aegon's always white... idk what to think but you're probably right, Aegon seems just too good to be true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 On 9/13/2017 at 9:31 PM, Princess_of_Sunspear said: snip Raising the boy king far from the man who would pay to have him killed is smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 11 hours ago, Leo of House Cartel said: Good question. Always wondered what went down when Oberyn visited the Sealord's manse in Braavos. Why not just take the lad there and then? Seems odd that the Red Viper, he of fiery passion and cold calculation, would be in the presence of his beloved Elia's long lost son and not demand that this Prince of Dorne be returned to Sunspear post haste. Aegon wasn't in Braavos when Oberon signed the marriage pact with Darry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 What happened to Oberyn, Quentyn and Arys is a proof. Doran isn't a man to be trusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000th Lord Commander Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 This is one I figured was about control. Assuming fAegon is real, which is by no means a given, then what do Illyo and Varys gain by having him raised in Dorne? The hopes of a pat on the back from Doran Martell after he installs his nephew on the IT. But by raising him in secret, away from Westeros, he is safer from assasins and Robert's vengence, he is completely in thier control, so they can teach him what they like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 fAegon is pretty telling by itself. He can be a Mopatis, he can be a Blackfyre descendant, he can be both, he can be neither because he is the pisswater prince himself with all the valyrianseeds around, he can just be some random Lyseni or other free city baby.One thing he isn't for certain is Aegon, son of Rhaegar Targaryen. If Varys and Illyrio makes a marriage pact with Martells, why do it through Viserys and not fAegon? If they intended for a Daenerys-fAegon marriage, why marry her to the Dothraki who don't like the idea of crossing the sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1/7 Maester Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 It is not likely, that Aegon is a son of Rhaegar. He might be even a son of Illyrio. Illyro -as Tyrion notices - is quite sad when he bids a pleasant journey for Rolly and Haldon. It is possible that Illyrio himself is smowhat a dragon. Black or red, a dragon is still a dragon, to quote him. Aerion Brightflame (not the most intelligent and benevolent Targaryens in history) could father some children while he was in the Free Cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis-something-Rose Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 On 11/15/2017 at 8:59 PM, A Ghost of Someone said: That would depend if he is actually Aegon, which I suspect he is not. Not a fan of Doran Martell. He could have at least done a lot more for Viserys and Dany. Especially if he planned on marrying Arianne to Viserys. He did nothing, sat back, got more disabled and left them to rot. Doran Martell wants everyone to do things for him. He was waiting for Viserys to get an army, he wants Dany because of her dragons. They would have been the ones to take Tywin to task, not him. He can stick his little speech about how he has been planning Tywin's demise since Elia's death. Or how he is the grass that hides the viper. Doran loves the sound of his own voice and his grand plans are going to come back and bite him. I shake my head whenever I think of fAegon. This kid was raised believing that he was the child of a dead prince, believing that he had this whole family in Dorne when he's just a pawn and might die for it. Arianne will probably try to marry him to get power she wants. I have no doubt Jon Conn loves him, but he is looking for redemption through him. Varys and Illyrio are in it for a power grab. I'm sure Mace will get all hot and bothered, because what a missed opportunity for his thrice married daughter. I feel sorry for the kid. I think Doran may have been able to pass fAegon as someone else if he had been given him. The Water Gardens are filled with children of all kinds of backgrounds and he has children from across the narrow sea. And since he has ties with the Free Cities, he could have just passed him off as someone else. But Varys and Illyrio wanted control over fAegon and I don't think it's something they would have been able to have with Oberyn around. Doran, they might be able to control, but Oberyn would be a no go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Widow's Watch said: Doran Martell wants everyone to do things for him. He was waiting for Viserys to get an army, he wants Dany because of her dragons. They would have been the ones to take Tywin to task, not him. He can stick his little speech about how he has been planning Tywin's demise since Elia's death. Or how he is the grass that hides the viper. Doran loves the sound of his own voice and his grand plans are going to come back and bite him. I shake my head whenever I think of fAegon. This kid was raised believing that he was the child of a dead prince, believing that he had this whole family in Dorne when he's just a pawn and might die for it. Arianne will probably try to marry him to get power she wants. I have no doubt Jon Conn loves him, but he is looking for redemption through him. Varys and Illyrio are in it for a power grab. I'm sure Mace will get all hot and bothered, because what a missed opportunity for his thrice married daughter. I feel sorry for the kid. I think Doran may have been able to pass fAegon as someone else if he had been given him. The Water Gardens are filled with children of all kinds of backgrounds and he has children from across the narrow sea. And since he has ties with the Free Cities, he could have just passed him off as someone else. But Varys and Illyrio wanted control over fAegon and I don't think it's something they would have been able to have with Oberyn around. Doran, they might be able to control, but Oberyn would be a no go. I am in the camp that FAegon is ablackfyre dependant by his mother and I'llyrio's son. Varys may be a relative or also has personal motives. As for Doran, he has let down a lot of people but he finally is treating g his daughter with some trust and respect. Still, he appears to have been an overcautious do nothing g. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 There's no evidence to suggest that Doran even knew about Young Griff. In fact the evidence, including TWoW sample chapters, suggest that Doran knew nothing about Young Griff. At the end of the day, it was far too risky for the extremely cautious Doran to have Aegon (real or not) raised in Dorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpg2016 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 The answer to this is because Varys isn't trying to raise a Dornish prince, he's trying to completely upend the political philosophy of the Westerosi monarchy. Raising fAegon in Dorne creates a whole host of problems right off the bat. Firstly, it makes discovery a much greater risk; even if Doran doesn't know, there are more spies and such in Westeros who might realize fAegon's "true" identity, and especially who might remember Jon Connington. In Essos, these are nobodies from a political backwater. In Dorne, the risk of exposure goes up exponentially. Second, if Doran knows, then it begins to corrupt the "perfect prince" narrative by intruding on the isolation of fAegon's upbringing. But more importantly, it means fAegon will be well disposed towards the Dornish, and will be viewed as a Dornish prince. Part of the beauty of raising fAegon outside the Seven Kingdoms means he can be of all of them, and of none, all at once. The Prince in Exile, coming home, is a powerful narrative. The Prince in Dorne, leading an invasion out of Dorne, is not only less narratively satisfying (and this isn't just as readers, Varys is crafting a tale to win popular public opinion as well), but also almost immediately raises the hackles of some very powerful Stormlands and Reach lords, who have millenia of experience in being wary of, or fighting off, just that kind of threat out of the Dornish Marches. There are almost no good reasons, in summary, to have fAegon in Dorne. On every level it risks or corrupts the goals Varys is striving for, while adding nothing except a miniscule amount of additional security, while removing vastly more than it gains in terms of potential exposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoplexy Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Had Doran known about Aegon, why wouldn't he have made a pact for Arrianne to marry him instead of Viserys? Or why wouldn't Varys suggest the same. This leads me to believe that he isn't Rhaegar's son. And even if he had been, I don't think he would've been safe in Dorne. The free cities were probably the best bet for his safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpg2016 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 44 minutes ago, Apoplexy said: Had Doran known about Aegon, why wouldn't he have made a pact for Arrianne to marry him instead of Viserys? He would have. 44 minutes ago, Apoplexy said: Or why wouldn't Varys suggest the same. Because it gains Varys nothing? Doran is going to support fAegon come hell or high water, because all Doran wants is to regain the high position he would have had in Rhaegar's court. The vengeance stuff also comes into it, I'm sure, but it's a political play at heart, and Rhaegar and Elia's son is a natural rallying point for Dorne. So Varys gains nothing he doesn't already have from this marriage, no doubt one of the many reasons he keeps fAegon a secret from Doran. It's also clear that a considerable amount of time elapses between the final fall of Aerys II and Illyrio entrusting "Aegon" to Jon Connington. So by the time the plot is set in motion, Doran seems to already be pledging support for an alternate line of Targaryen heirs. 44 minutes ago, Apoplexy said: This leads me to believe that he isn't Rhaegar's son. There are far more direct clues in the text than that, but you're right, he almost certain isn't. It's right up there with R+L=J in terms of certainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.