Aegon the Conqueror's swordsmanship

[Lord Varys]

18 hours ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

If we had a story set around the time of Aegon, maybe we would get contemporaries attesting to how good Aegon was. Like we get with Jaime, Dayne and Barristan. Trying to guess how good of a warrior a person was 300 years ago is hard and adding in the fact that Aegon never rode in a tourney or never killed anyone of note, makes it almost impossible.  The World book does say twice that Aegon was a warrior without peer and that he was counted amongst the greatest warriors of his age. Those two mentions in the World  book are probably why people on here think Aegon was a great warrior.

As Ran says, the trouble with Aegon is that we never hear about his great feats of arms. And he is the Conqueror. We should (and actually do) know more about him and his deeds than we know about his knightly peers. What we get in TSotD is an impressive list of the things Aegon's son Maegor did - the Robber Knight he slew, how many squires, knights, and Kingsguard he beat bloody in this or that tourney, how he distinguished himself on the Stepstones during the campaign against Sargasso Saan, etc.

For Aegon there is nothing there of this sort. And if he had done something of this sort we would know it, just as we know the details about the Dragonknight's nearly superhuman stamina in the cage, enabling him to carry King Baelor to safety (or Baelor's own stamina which he showed when he walked to Dorne). Or take Selmy's dashing feat during the Defiance of Duskendale.

Aegon is also never praised as a great natural swordsman or anything of that sort (when Selmy praises Tumco Lho as 'the greatest natural swordsman he has seen since Jaime Lannister' then this means something. Talent is visible to the people who can judge it. You don't have to defeat or kill great warriors to be known as a great talent - sometimes this goes together like it does in Maegor, the Dragonknight, and Selmy, sometimes it does not.

And the latter is the case for quite a few prominent figures - Jaime doesn't slay or defeat anyone of note unless you include the sworn shields of Robb he takes out in the Whispering Wood (and we don't know how good or bad they were), Daemon Blackfyre is praised by all as this great knight and warrior but the only great feat of arms we knew he did was to defeat Ser Gwayne Corbray on the Redgrass Field - and while the man was of the Kingsguard we don't know how old he was at that time. The fact that the Unworthy knighted Daemon at the age of twelve and gave him Blackfyre might have as much to do with royal favoritism as it did with Daemon's talents.

But the fact that Daemon is universally praised as this great knight and warrior makes it clear he was an exceptional man.

We also don't know how many great knights Prince Daemon slew. But we do know that he was a deadly duelist and really liked violence and, presumably, to inflict pain on others. That he really had talent and was a real prodigy can be deduced from the fact that the Old King gave Dark Sister - the sword he had borne as a young prince - to Daemon as a gift when he knighted him. Jaehaerys I should not only be a man who knows a great swordsman when he sees one but is also the kind of person who would not grant royal favors undeserved (as the Unworthy certainly was).

We know that Jaehaerys I's second son Baelon was known as 'the Brave' - and he was apparently a well-loved and competent guy - but his father never gave him or his elder brother Aemon Dark Sister. That shows that Daemon really stood out there even as a 16-year-old youth.

[Daemon The Black Dragon]

3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

As Ran says, the trouble with Aegon is that we never hear about his great feats of arms. And he is the Conqueror. We should (and actually do) know more about him and his deeds than we know about his knightly peers. What we get in TSotD is an impressive list of the things Aegon's son Maegor did - the Robber Knight he slew, how many squires, knights, and Kingsguard he beat bloody in this or that tourney, how he distinguished himself on the Stepstones during the campaign against Sargasso Saan, etc.

For Aegon there is nothing there of this sort. And if he had done something of this sort we would know it, just as we know the details about the Dragonknight's nearly superhuman stamina in the cage, enabling him to carry King Baelor to safety (or Baelor's own stamina which he showed when he walked to Dorne). Or take Selmy's dashing feat during the Defiance of Duskendale.

Aegon is also never praised as a great natural swordsman or anything of that sort (when Selmy praises Tumco Lho as 'the greatest natural swordsman he has seen since Jaime Lannister' then this means something. Talent is visible to the people who can judge it. You don't have to defeat or kill great warriors to be known as a great talent - sometimes this goes together like it does in Maegor, the Dragonknight, and Selmy, sometimes it does not.

And the latter is the case for quite a few prominent figures - Jaime doesn't slay or defeat anyone of note unless you include the sworn shields of Robb he takes out in the Whispering Wood (and we don't know how good or bad they were), Daemon Blackfyre is praised by all as this great knight and warrior but the only great feat of arms we knew he did was to defeat Ser Gwayne Corbray on the Redgrass Field - and while the man was of the Kingsguard we don't know how old he was at that time. The fact that the Unworthy knighted Daemon at the age of twelve and gave him Blackfyre might have as much to do with royal favoritism as it did with Daemon's talents.

But the fact that Daemon is universally praised as this great knight and warrior makes it clear he was an exceptional man.

We also don't know how many great knights Prince Daemon slew. But we do know that he was a deadly duelist and really liked violence and, presumably, to inflict pain on others. That he really had talent and was a real prodigy can be deduced from the fact that the Old King gave Dark Sister - the sword he had borne as a young prince - to Daemon as a gift when he knighted him. Jaehaerys I should not only be a man who knows a great swordsman when he sees one but is also the kind of person who would not grant royal favors undeserved (as the Unworthy certainly was).

We know that Jaehaerys I's second son Baelon was known as 'the Brave' - and he was apparently a well-loved and competent guy - but his father never gave him or his elder brother Aemon Dark Sister. That shows that Daemon really stood out there even as a 16-year-old youth.

I never said Aegon was a great swordsman or had some great feats or arms. He killed a fool and a small Lord from the Iron islands and maybe some assassins. Clearly nothing to judge his greatness on. Simply pointed out we don't know how good or bad he truly was. I mentioned those 2 remarks from the World book, to point out why people on the forum probably think Aegon was great with a sword. Do I think Aegon was some great swordsman, worth mentioning with all the great fighters the Targs have, no. Do I think Aegon could handle himself well in a fight, yeah but that doesn't make him great.

[Aegon1FanBoy]

Its issues liek these that makes it clear george has to be as detailed with these major figures man. I can't tell you how much times i have seen these same arguments apply for characters in Lord of the Rings as well. 

[Фейсал]

6 hours ago, Aegon1FanBoy said:

Its issues liek these that makes it clear george has to be as detailed with these major figures man. I can't tell you how much times i have seen these same arguments apply for characters in Lord of the Rings as well. 

I actually think the broad strokes and us not 100% knowing those details makes both worlds feel more real in their own way

[Texas Hold Em]

On 9/14/2017 at 5:19 AM, UFT said:

as he was essentially a conquering warrior prince, i imagine his skills were at least like a royal trained from birth such as robb. perhaps to the levels of rhaegar or the dragonknight. 

where would you guys place him? 

I would put his skills above that of Robb Stark and below that of the Rogue Prince.  Skilled to be sure.  I would also assume Queen Visenya was skilled with her Darksister.

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

On September 14, 2017 at 7:51 AM, Lord Varys said:

He defeated the fool the Tolands sent against him. That was his greatest victory we know of.

I maintain that Visenya was the better swordswoman, the true champion of House Targaryen during Aegon's days. He himself would have been adequate, or perhaps even pretty good, but not all that exceptional. Especially not since he didn't really enjoy the whole knightly nonsense. He didn't ride in tourney nor did he fight in any melees we know of. At least not after he became king. 

Maegor the Cruel, Prince Daemon and Aemon the Dragonknight were the true steel of House Targaryen. And I guess Jaehaerys I, Aemond, Baelor Breakspear, Maekar, Aerion Brightflame, Aegon V, and Rhaegar weren't all that bad, either. The rest seemed to have sucked in that department.

Dark sister also seems to be the sword of Targ champions of their time (excluding Daemon B.) 

Dark sister yielders:

Visenya (saved the conquerer being attacked, not the conquerer saved her)

Aemon the Dragonknight  

Daemon T the rogue Prince 

Bloodraven (lesser tier but still deserving of such a weapon)

 

 

Fir the OP Aegon 1 is explicitly stated as being a warrior without peer. So he had to be the best/arguabl the best of his time. But most are correct in saying we truly don't know