The curse of Aegon

[Floki of the Ironborn]

I never really thought about this, but after King Aegon I Targaryen, the name 'Aegon' seems to be cursed. Every Targaryen and every person who bears that name after the Conqueror comes to a very bad end one way or another. 

First there's all the Aegons who died young, like the sons of Aenys and Jaehaerys and (arguably) Rhaegar. Then we also have Aegon II, who tore the realm apart with the Dance of the Dragons, and after rendered nearly incapacitated by injuries, he was poisoned. Then Aegon III is a walking poster child for PTSD and depression after all he went through. He also dies young, as do his sons. Then there's Aegon VI, and we don't have to go into that train wreck. Aegon V had it slightly better but his reign seems to have been unhappy due to his children and subjects undoing all he dreamed to accomplish, only for it all to end in complete disaster at Summerhall.

And even outside of House Targaryen, the name Aegon is associated with ill fortune. Daemon Blackfyre's eldest son was killed at Redgrass. Two Freys have that name, one of them becomes an outlaw and the other is a lackwit whose throat is cut by Catelyn Stark. 

This makes me wonder what terrible fate is in store for (f)Aegon in the rest of this series. He's obviously not in for an easy ride, but I think the fact that is named Aegon is a clear indication that he will lose. Unless the point is that he will lift the curse, so to speak, and redeem his name.

[Canon Claude]

Interesting idea. I could buy that it's part of some magical conspiracy by either the Dornish Letter or the maesters' conspiracy against the dragons and the incestuous Targaryens. Or maybe something older, who knows.

[falcotron]

If you really want to make something of this, I think the only Aegon we know before Aegon I is the son of Gaemon, who seemed to have a perfectly good life.

But really, I think this is a stretch. If you look at almost any name in Westeros, you'd think the name is cursed, especially if you take "cursed" widely enough to include everything from dying valiantly in battle to dying old and happy but leaving a mess for everyone else like Aegon IV. For example:

Jon Arryn was murdered by his wife. Jon Snow was murdered by his own Watch subordinates. Smalljon Umber was murdered at the Red Wedding. Greatjon Umber was wounded and watched his son being murdered and ended up a prisoner of the Freys. Jon Connington was forced into exile and either drank himself to death or became the leader of Aegon VI's forces which probably isn't going to end well. Jon Hollard was executed along with his whole family over the Defiance of Duskendale. Jon Bulwer died of a summer fever leaving no male heirs. Jon Pox was hanged for rape during the War of the Ninepenny Kings. Jon Penny is an orphan boy. Jon Heddle was crippled.

Robert Baratheon was killed by his wife. Robert Arryn is a sickly little boy whose protector murdered his mother and is poisoning him. Robert Quince was roasted so badly that his corpse could only be recognized by its size. Robert Blackwood died of diarrhea during a siege. Robert Brax died at the Battle of the Fords. Robert Strong is a result of Qyburn's gruesome experiments on the dying Gregor Clegane. And even related names seem to be cursed: Robb Stark was killed at the Red Wedding, Robar Royce slew a decoy and was slain by Artys Arryn, losing the Vale once and for all to the Andal invaders, etc.

And so on.

[Canon Claude]

To be honest, the Aegon, Jon and Robert names could also be cursed by GRRM, as a subtle sign to us. The show even did the same thing with the name Eddard.

[falcotron]

3 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

To be honest, the Aegon, Jon and Robert names could also be cursed by GRRM, as a subtle sign to us. The show even did the same thing with the name Eddard.

A subtle sign to us of what?

I just picked Jon and Robert because they're commonly used names, not because I knew or expected them to be special in any way. With a world as crapsack as Westeros and a definition of "cursed" as broad as this, almost everyone is cursed, so it's no surprise that almost everyone named Aegon, Jon, and Robert is cursed. Pick any name and you'll likely get the same result.

In fact, I tried just that. Hairy Hal was killed by the Weeper, Hal the Hog died at the Blackwater, and Hal Mollin is presumed by Lady Dustin to be dead at the hands of the Ironborn before her men could waylay him. Wyl the Stark guard was killed by Jaime, Wyl the Whittler was blind, and killed by the Lannister forces in the Riverlands, Wyl Waynwood was killed by Daemon Blackfyre at Redgrass Field, and related names don't do much better, starting with the first person to be killed by a wight in 8000 years being named Will. And so on until my sixth random pick came up with Qarl, which doesn't look particularly cursed, although that's probably just because most of the Qarls come from Asha's list of Qarls she knows and that's all we ever hear of them.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

10 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

I never really thought about this, but after King Aegon I Targaryen, the name 'Aegon' seems to be cursed. Every Targaryen and every person who bears that name after the Conqueror comes to a very bad end one way or another. 

First there's all the Aegons who died young, like the sons of Aenys and Jaehaerys and (arguably) Rhaegar. Then we also have Aegon II, who tore the realm apart with the Dance of the Dragons, and after rendered nearly incapacitated by injuries, he was poisoned. Then Aegon III is a walking poster child for PTSD and depression after all he went through. He also dies young, as do his sons. Then there's Aegon VI, and we don't have to go into that train wreck. Aegon V had it slightly better but his reign seems to have been unhappy due to his children and subjects undoing all he dreamed to accomplish, only for it all to end in complete disaster at Summerhall.

And even outside of House Targaryen, the name Aegon is associated with ill fortune. Daemon Blackfyre's eldest son was killed at Redgrass. Two Freys have that name, one of them becomes an outlaw and the other is a lackwit whose throat is cut by Catelyn Stark. 

This makes me wonder what terrible fate is in store for (f)Aegon in the rest of this series. He's obviously not in for an easy ride, but I think the fact that is named Aegon is a clear indication that he will lose. Unless the point is that he will lift the curse, so to speak, and redeem his name.

Interesting observation.

I think Drogon (or one of the other dragons) is going to kill and eat fAegon at the end of a Dany vs Aegon war, in a parallel to the original Dance when Rhaenyra got eaten.

[falcotron]

1 hour ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

I think Drogon (or one of the other dragons) is going to kill and eat fAegon at the end of a Dany vs Aegon war, in a parallel to the original Dance when Rhaenyra got eaten.

The names match up better if Sunfyre/Aegon Blackfyre kills and eats Rhaenyra/Rhaegal.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

1 hour ago, falcotron said:

The names match up better if Sunfyre/Aegon Blackfyre kills and eats Rhaenyra/Rhaegal.

LOL of course! Why didn't I see it before!

[falcotron]

16 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

LOL of course! Why didn't I see it before!

That's also what other Targaryens got wrong. You don't eat wildfire to turn into a dragon, you eat dragons to turn into wildfire.

The only problem will be finding someone who's big enough to wield the living flame that used to be Aegon as a sword. But that would explain why GRRM introduced Robert Strong, the real AAR.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

7 hours ago, falcotron said:

That's also what other Targaryens got wrong. You don't eat wildfire to turn into a dragon, you eat dragons to turn into wildfire.

The only problem will be finding someone who's big enough to wield the living flame that used to be Aegon as a sword. But that would explain why GRRM introduced Robert Strong, the real AAR.

Well, OF COURSE Robert Strong is the real AAR. He was reborn from Oberyn's poison, and Oberyn himself was the foretold bleeding star, his sigil being the sun and spear of House Martell.  

[TheThreeEyedCow]

I think you could put together a strong case for the entirety of Westeros being 'cursed' if you were so inclined. For every Aegon that dies there's a Jon or a Harry.... 

Aegon is a prolific name. So there's going to be a whole bunch of Targaryens who will want to either see or be the New Aegon. 

[falcotron]

4 hours ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

I think you could put together a strong case for the entirety of Westeros being 'cursed' if you were so inclined.

Or the entirety of Planetos. Or the entirety of most of the universes GRRM has written outside of his TV work…

[PrinceHenryris]

On September 17, 2017 at 2:08 PM, TheThreeEyedCow said:

I think you could put together a strong case for the entirety of Westeros being 'cursed' if you were so inclined. For every Aegon that dies there's a Jon or a Harry.... 

I agree.

Check out the diambiguation page for "Brandon Stark" on the wiki.

[falcotron]

20 minutes ago, PrinceHenryris said:

I agree.

Check out the diambiguation page for "Brandon Stark" on the wiki.

There are a couple who didn't sail off the edge of the world, get strangled by a mad king, get pushed out a window by a queen's brother/lover, freeze to death at age three, have to kill his own father in a raid against the wildlings, …

Like Bennard's son, we know absolutely nothing about him except that he was Cregan's cousin and the names of his parents and siblings, so we can desperately try to pretend that he had a good life.

[PrinceHenryris]

No argument falcotron, but there are still a whole lot of "Brandon Starks" who had unhappy endings.

[Kytheros]

To be fair, at least in the case of the Brandon Starks, who's more likely to be remembered or mentioned often by posterity? The Brandons that lived quietly/happily and died of old age or went out hunting one winter and didn't come back, or the Brandons who had a particularly tragic end that made for a good story?