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Season 8 potential characters couple pairings


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1 hour ago, falcotron said:

I think you're doing the same thing. (Of course we all do that to some extent.)For most of the season, Sansa is distant even from her own family, and she's even wearing "don't touch me" clothes, in stark contrast to her femme fatale (or, rather, "I went to Hot Topic before going to a Mittelalter festival"…) look before the Ramsay ordeal. But at the end of the last episode, once she's overcome Littlefinger, she's dressed like Maege Mormont's boss and hanging out casually with her sister.

LOL, she's wearing the same dress as she did earlier in the season--you can see the horizontal feathers mimicking her "mockingbird" dress--even though LF is out of the picture, which completely defeats your argument and indicates that my interpretation is correct, not yours. As Michele Clapton said, her S7 costumes--tight cuts, side lacing, belts, etc.-are designed to restrict physical touch, and the fact that she continues to wear those tight, trussed-up dresses after LF's death reinforced my point, so clearly I paid more attention than you did. Nice try, though. 

 

Quote

But I think you're one of those people.

Based on an observation of yours which proved to be incorrect, and which actually suggests that my argument is the correct one.

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Just now, Newstar said:

LOL, she's wearing the same dress as earlier in the season, which defeats your point. Nice try, though.

Technically her wardrobe does change in 7x07. She is wearing the same dress but what she has on top is completely different. Much simpler and less ornate. Very well could symbolically mean reconnecting with family in light of Arya's comments regarding her liking nice things.

 

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1 hour ago, Newstar said:

TV Sansa definitely doesn't want to remarry and would much rather run Winterfell unimpeded; in Season 7, it's strongly implied that she would much rather run Winterfell with Jon out of the way and is even briefly tempted by the prospect of a coup. And if her desire for power and control means that she secretly wishes she were rid of Jon of all people, who has only ever tried to protect and defend her, whom she unquestionably loves, and whom she considers further from Joffrey than anyone she has ever met, what shot does anyone else have? 

It doesn't have to, but in Sansa's case, it obviously does. I'm guessing the writers are working backwards from Book Sansa's endgame--steely, single Elizabeth I-style Lady of Winterfell--and using the Ramsay marriage and everything that went with it to explain her attitude. Gross, sure, but not beyond D&D.

She doesn't want to get rid of him, she just wants to be listened to.

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EP 1: "You're good at this. At what? Ruling."

EP 2: "You're abandoning your people, you're abandoning your home."

EP 3: "I wish Jon were here."

EP 4: "I hope he comes back soon."

EP 5: "Jon is our king, he's doing what he thinks is best."

EP 6: "Yes, they turned their backs on Jon when it was time to retake Winterfell and then they named him their king and now they're ready to turn their backs on him again. They're all bloody wind vanes. By the time Jon comes back, he'll have no army left." 

EP 7: "He never asked for my opinion. Why would he start now?"

And what does Jon have to do with anything? He is her brother-cousin, not a potential husband, the dynamics are different.

Plus, it's not even about power, her safety (and her family's) is what matters the most.

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S6: "If we don't take back the north, we will never be safe."

EP 1: "I am safe. I'm at home, surrounded by friends."

EP 6: "I am the Lady of Winterfell and I am home. This is the safest place for me."

We don't know what she wants (love, children) because it's not even an option for her, that may change or may stay the same.

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This is the source about Michelle's Clapton dress: http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/michele-clapton-on-costuming-the-reunited-stark-children

And this is the quote:

 

“All the characters’ costumes are a consequence of the journey and lifestyle,” Clapton states, particularly referencing a favorite piece of hers — Sansa’s belt. “This is her taking back control of her body. I designed it to wrap around over her side-laced dress to represent the absolute removal of any possible physical touch. Her dresses are also tightly-laced on, incredibly difficult to remove; it’s a message to Littlefinger.”

 

As we all know, Sansa sentenced LF to death and he is dead now.

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3 hours ago, Newstar said:

TV Sansa definitely doesn't want to remarry and would much rather run Winterfell unimpeded; in Season 7, it's strongly implied that she would much rather run Winterfell with Jon out of the way and is even briefly tempted by the prospect of a coup.

As Jack Wilson from Shane said, 

"Prove it."

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11 hours ago, jcmontea said:

Technically her wardrobe does change in 7x07. She is wearing the same dress but what she has on top is completely different. Much simpler and less ornate. Very well could symbolically mean reconnecting with family in light of Arya's comments regarding her liking nice things.

The character point was these tight dresses show Sansa literally closing herself off from being touched. That she continues to wear the same tight, confining dress after LF's death, even when Clapton suggested that this was also intended as a message to LF, suggests that her attitude hasn't in fact changed, and that LF's death hasn't opened her up to sex and love (as many in this thread have suggested with no basis). In Season 4, when Clapton wanted to show her transformation in outlook, Sansa wore a brand-new, shockingly different dress for a single scene. Nothing of the kind happened here. Therefore, my interpretation is the correct one.

 

11 hours ago, TRILOGY said:

She doesn't want to get rid of him, she just wants to be listened to.

And what does Jon have to do with anything? He is her brother-cousin, not a potential husband, the dynamics are different.

Because it shows that she resents the interference of even a good, "strong" man she loves and trusts, putting the lie to those who have claimed in this thread that Sansa would be just fine with ceding control to a man as long as it was a good guy she could trust. And yeah, it's strongly hinted that she would prefer to have him out of the way, even if she would never act on those desires (however tempted). I'm not going to do your homework for you on how how that's hinted in Season 7; that's been discussed to death in the episode-specific forums.

 

11 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

This is the source about Michelle's Clapton dress: http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/michele-clapton-on-costuming-the-reunited-stark-children

And this is the quote:

 

“All the characters’ costumes are a consequence of the journey and lifestyle,” Clapton states, particularly referencing a favorite piece of hers — Sansa’s belt. “This is her taking back control of her body. I designed it to wrap around over her side-laced dress to represent the absolute removal of any possible physical touch. Her dresses are also tightly-laced on, incredibly difficult to remove; it’s a message to Littlefinger.”

 

As we all know, Sansa sentenced LF to death and he is dead now.

But she keeps wearing the same tight dress after his death, even though Sansa has sported a brand-new dress in her final scene of the season before to show a transformation in attitude (the mockingbird dress in Season 4), so the show supports my interpretation and not yours. LOL.

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12 minutes ago, Newstar said:

The character point was these tight dresses show Sansa literally closing herself off from being touched. That she continues to wear the same tight, confining dress after LF's death, even when Clapton suggested that this was also intended as a message to LF, suggests that her attitude hasn't in fact changed, and that LF's death hasn't opened her up to sex and love (as many in this thread have suggested with no basis). In Season 4, when Clapton wanted to show her transformation in outlook, Sansa wore a brand-new, shockingly different dress for a single scene. Nothing of the kind happened here. Therefore, my interpretation is the correct one.

That i agree with you. I think her change of overcoat/ hood has meaning and plays into the Sansa/ Arya storyline. I don’t think it means she is now open to love since the underlying dress Clapton discusses does not change all season.

 

12 minutes ago, Newstar said:

 

Because it shows that she resents the interference of even a good, "strong" man she loves and trusts, putting the lie to those who have claimed in this thread that Sansa would be just fine with ceding control to a man as long as it was a good guy she could trust. And yeah, it's strongly hinted that she would prefer to have him out of the way, even if she would never act on those desires (however tempted). I'm not going to do your homework for you on how how that's hinted in Season 7; that's been discussed to death in the episode-specific forums.

 

But she keeps wearing the same tight dress after his death, even though Sansa has sported a brand-new dress in her final scene of the season before to show a transformation in attitude (the mockingbird dress in Season 4), so the show supports my interpretation and not yours. LOL.

 

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12 hours ago, greensleeves said:

snip

If you can't talk about fictional characters' love lives without losing your temper and resorting to personal attacks, I suggest you take some time to reflect on why that might be.

 

12 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

snip

Agree to disagree. Also see my response to @greensleeves

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6 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

That i agree with you. I think her change of overcoat/ hood has meaning and plays into the Sansa/ Arya storyline. I don’t think it means she is now open to love since the underlying dress Clapton discusses does not change all season.

I agree. Sansa adopting a plainer cloak may very well be a concession to Arya's complaints about Sansa liking pretty things (meeting her halfway by ditching the fancy cloak in favour of something plainer). That has nothing to do with Sansa opening herself up to love, though, since that was expressed in her costuming through wearing the tight, confining dresses. 

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33 minutes ago, Newstar said:

Because it shows that she resents the interference of even a good, "strong" man she loves and trusts, putting the lie to those who have claimed in this thread that Sansa would be just fine with ceding control to a man as long as it was a good guy she could trust. And yeah, it's strongly hinted that she would prefer to have him out of the way, even if she would never act on those desires (however tempted). I'm not going to do your homework for you on how how that's hinted in Season 7; that's been discussed to death in the episode-specific forums.

 

Quotes >>>> Your Interpretation. 

You ignored them as it doesn't suit your unsupported position.

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Agree to disagree. Also see my response to @greensleeves

9 hours ago, Newstar said:

If you can't talk about fictional characters' love lives without losing your temper and resorting to personal attacks, I suggest you take some time to reflect on why that might be.

As you quoted me writing <snip> I suppose you read my whole argumentation. 

You said "also see my response to greensleeves" I suppose you are saying I made personal attacks to you and lost my temper, so I'll respond to that.

I'd please ask you to not say things I have not said such as personal attacks; there are things I don't tolerate like this one you have said. 

And I'm not losing my temper at any moment, because, as I mentioned to you, this is a fictional world, and I can cope with anything. 

Meanwhile, you've failed to provide any quote. The only one thing provided was about Sansa's dress again, and you conveniently didn't mention the fact that this was a message to Litlefinger, as you had done in another thread before, just before I reminded you to please don't do this again. This is misquoting things, which is what I asked you not to do, not erasing parts of the quotes. I'm free to be molested by this fact, siunce you've done it again, and I'd ask you to not do this another third time since people would like to read the whole thing in order to discuss the loves' lifes of the characters we like.

 

And as I asked you before, please don't tell me what to do (read fanfics, take some time, etc) since I don't like condescending advices and I have not even asked your advices since I'm not into meltdowns (or whathever word you used to describe how supposedly you think I'd feel if my ships would not sail). I think we are adults enough to understand that. Am I right?

9 hours ago, Newstar said:

But she keeps wearing the same tight dress after his death, even though Sansa has sported a brand-new dress in her final scene of the season before to show a transformation in attitude (the mockingbird dress in Season 4), so the show supports my interpretation and not yours. LOL.

This scene happened just after they killed Litlefinger, and Arya is also wearing the same clothes. I don't think that it would be good storytelling changing her costume completely just after to support the argument of Miichelle: she is creating costumes for the whole season as thematic elements, but the characters can't change costumes for one scene that happens some minutes after without making the show extremely inconsistent.. People would think: What's happening? Why is she wearing a lose white dress now while it is snowing?

Seriously, the costumes are for the whole season, Arya and Sansa are wearing the same all the season. Since LF has been present there all the season except the last scene of Winterfell, it's logic to assume that Sansa will wear a different dress next season, but not some minutes after the execution.

However, there are some things you have not refuted:

“All the characters’ costumes are a consequence of the journey and lifestyle,” Clapton states, particularly referencing a favorite piece of hers — Sansa’s belt. “This is her taking back control of her body. I designed it to wrap around over her side-laced dress to represent the absolute removal of any possible physical touch. Her dresses are also tightly-laced on, incredibly difficult to remove; it’s a message to Littlefinger.”

 They decided to transition into a slightly different costume, Sansa is taking back control of her body (for season 8, with someone she loves, who instead of raping her, will possibly make love to her because she will let him, because she will like it), and the message of the dress for  was for Litlefinger.

 

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1 hour ago, TRILOGY said:

Quotes >>>> Your Interpretation. 

You ignored them as it doesn't suit your unsupported position.

I cimPletely agree.

 

13 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

As Jack Wilson from Shane said, 

"Prove it."

I agree with that statement.

 

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3 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

snip

Agree to disagree.

It may have gotten lost in the shuffle in all the discussions upthread, but I'm going to repeat my prediction that Arya's ending is likely her sailing off to parts unknown. It ties into that odd bit of dialogue from Season 6 (Arya wondering what's west of Westeros). It echoes her ending in 4x10. It fits in with the writers' comparison of Nymeria and Arya both being "lone wolves" who cannot be domesticated. It links up with Book Arya's dreams in AGOT of traveling and seeing the wonders of the world, although there's certainly an argument to be made that her travels post-AGOT cured her of romantic notions about wandering around having adventures. It even fits in with GRRM's alleged plans for a post-ASOIAF mystery series set in Braavos, in which an adult Arya was (allegedly) supposed to play a role.

There's been a lot of argument over what GRRM meant by a "bittersweet" ending, but when he discussed it himself in terms of the LOTR ending (which he saw as bittersweet), he said something along the lines of Frodo never being the same again, and the other characters "live their lives." I wouldn't be surprised to see the Starks, assuming they all survive, ultimately separate in the end as they proceed to pursue their own goals and live their lives: Jon goes south to sort out the mess Cersei has left behind, Sansa remains at Winterfell, Arya goes off adventuring, etc.

The one sticking point for me is what will happen with Bran if Sansa remains Lady of Winterfell (assuming he survives). Will he just...hang out in the weirwood all the time while Sansa runs things? I figured that Book Bran was permanently tree-bound before Season 6 aired. Now that the show seems to have ruled that out, I don't know what's going to happen to him, especially with Sansa seemingly set up as the endgame ruler at Winterfell.

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2 minutes ago, Newstar said:

Agree to disagree.

It may have gotten lost in the shuffle in all the discussions upthread, but I'm going to repeat my prediction that Arya's ending is likely her sailing off to parts unknown. It ties into that odd bit of dialogue from Season 6 (Arya wondering what's west of Westeros). It echoes her ending in 4x10. It fits in with the writers' comparison of Nymeria and Arya both being "lone wolves" who cannot be domesticated. It links up with Book Arya's dreams in AGOT of traveling and seeing the wonders of the world, although there's certainly an argument to be made that her travels post-AGOT cured her of romantic notions about wandering around having adventures. It even fits in with GRRM's alleged plans for a post-ASOIAF mystery series set in Braavos, in which an adult Arya was (allegedly) supposed to play a role.

There's been a lot of argument over what GRRM meant by a "bittersweet" ending, but when he discussed it himself in terms of the LOTR ending (which he saw as bittersweet), he said something along the lines of Frodo never being the same again, and the other characters "live their lives." I wouldn't be surprised to see the Starks, assuming they all survive, ultimately separate in the end as they proceed to pursue their own goals and live their lives: Jon goes south to sort out the mess Cersei has left behind, Sansa remains at Winterfell, Arya goes off adventuring, etc.

The one sticking point for me is what will happen with Bran if Sansa remains Lady of Winterfell (assuming he survives). Will he just..hang out in the weirwood all the time while Sansa runs things?

I think your right. 

I think Bran does hang out in the weirwood tree. Maybe stays stealthily trying to influence events Bloodraven style. 

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1 minute ago, jcmontea said:

I think your right. 

I think Bran does hang out in the weirwood tree. Maybe stays stealthily trying to influence events Bloodraven style. 

Bran could always die, I guess. The 3ER's "reassurance" to Bran that he wasn't going to be "an old man in a tree" could have a double meaning: Bran's not going to be an old man in a tree not just because he leaves the cave, but because he dies young and never gets to be an old man.

Or, I suppose, Sansa could always die and Bran could suddenly change his mind about his status as the 3ER disqualifying him from Lord of Winterfell status. Otherwise, though, with Sansa running things and Bran hanging out in the weirwood being weird, it seems like a strange setup.

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Arya could sail for advebtures i think it's a strong possibility it would fit but Nymeria in that scenr is the leader of a pack. So the ahowrunners say she is a lone wolf but at the same time we see she is physically not alone. So Arya could be a lone wolf in the sense that she chooses a path that the majority of ladies dont choose (like sailing for adventures) because Medueval Westeros cant "domesticate" her like the ladies who are not into fighting, etc but just like Nymeria she will be physically surrounded with a pack she will lead. Gendry will be her pack. She wanted him to be her family. In the books she is  ery attached to the idea of a pack. 

In the show as well. Sansa tells her that the pack survives, the same words Arya repeats to herself in the books. In season seven Arya has found her pack again with Sansa and Bran...but the rest of her pack, thay includes Jon and Gendry has not been found yet.

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21 minutes ago, Newstar said:

Bran could always die, I guess. The 3ER's "reassurance" to Bran that he wasn't going to be "an old man in a tree" could have a double meaning: Bran's not going to be an old man in a tree not just because he leaves the cave, but because he dies young and never gets to be an old man.

Or, I suppose, Sansa could always die and Bran could suddenly change his mind about his status as the 3ER disqualifying him from Lord of Winterfell status. Otherwise, though, with Sansa running things and Bran hanging out in the weirwood being weird, it seems like a strange setup.

I still think George’s original outline with the five main characters making it will happen so don’t think Bran dies.

but your right that comment does make it strange. 

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1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Arya could sail for advebtures i think it's a strong possibility it would fit but Nymeria in that scenr is the leader of a pack. So the ahowrunners say she is a lone wolf but at the same time we see she is physically not alone. So Arya could be a lone wolf in the sense that she chooses a path that the majority of ladies dont choose (like sailing for adventures) because Medueval Westeros cant "domesticate" her like the ladies who are not into fighting, etc but just like Nymeria she will be physically surrounded with a pack she will lead. Gendry will be her pack. She wanted him to be her family. In the books she is  ery attached to the idea of a pack. 

Yeah. Even if Arya does sail into the sunset, there's nothing strictly speaking preventing Gendry from accompanying her on her travels, unless he dies or is legitimized and named Lord of Storm's End or whatever. (In the 7x05 script outline, I believe Davos or Jon mentions the possibility of legitimizing Gendry, so it's not that farfetched.) I don't think it's likely that they sail off into the sunset together, but it's certainly possible.

 

1 hour ago, jcmontea said:

I still think George’s original outline with the five main characters making it will happen so don’t think Bran dies.

but your right that comment does make it strange. 

If it came down to one of Sansa/Bran needing to die for the other to be endgame Lady/Lord of Winterfell, my money would be on Sansa, if only because of the outline that seemed to imply that Bran would survive.

As much as the show seems to be setting up Sansa as endgame Lady of Winterfell, the way the TV writers made Jon KITN also seemed to imply that Book Robb's will, which names Jon Robb's heir and which bars Sansa from inheriting Winterfell, is going to come into play. It would be strange if Sansa wound up as endgame LOW when there's a mysterious will floating around which is supposed to prevent that from happening. The Northerners could always disregard the will, especially if Sansa obtains an annulment (since her marriage to Tyrion was the reason she was disinherited), but how likely is that? And if Book Sansa never gets Winterfell because of Robb's will, then I don't see how TV Sansa can end up with it in the end, which would theoretically clear the way for Bran or even Arya.

If Sansa doesn't end up with Winterfell, though, what the heck is going to happen to her? It looks like it's endgame Lady of Winterfell or bust at this point.

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