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Season 8 potential characters couple pairings


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11 hours ago, Faera said:

What do we think will go down with the Cersei and Euron alliance? Since this is supposed to be about pairings, do we think Euron will push the issue of marriage now or do we think he really is going to betray her at the first hurdle, like taking the Golden Company for himself or something.

I don't think he's going to betray her at the first hurdle. He really wants to marry her before betraying her. Not because he cares about getting any legitimacy through her or anything, just because that'll be two victories instead of one. So it'll only be when he either realizes he can't have both and has to choose that he's going to betray her.

11 hours ago, Faera said:

I was already thinking this might be a possibility. As for the idea of the GC turning on Cersei themselves and going over to "The Holy Alliance of Good", I almost feel like this will be inevitable. Given the Golden Company's role in the books, that contract with Cersei is just waiting to be broken - the question is when.

But given that role in the books, D&D can easily spin this the other way.

Since the last of the Blackfyres died out, the GC haven't converted to being a pro-mainline-Targaryan force before now, so why should they convert now? And Jon isn't really a "new Blackfyre" in any metaphorical sense that would be interesting to them. And helping Cersei to kill off Dany and Jon is revenge—ending Daeron's line as finally as Daemon's line.

11 hours ago, jcmontea said:

In some ways, it's appropriate he doesn't speak. What's Death going to say? Anything would diminish him.

D&D really should read some Discworld books, or Neil Gaiman comics. Death doesn't have to come off as Bill & Ted. And of course if they're talking about him being an unstoppable force of destruction rather than literal death, do they really think the (good) Terminator movies would be more effective if the terminators never spoke? If you want implacable destruction that doesn't speak, why not make the Others more alien (or even more Alien) instead of making them more human than in the novels and giving them an identifiable leader with a nice human title?

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1 hour ago, falcotron said:

D&D really should read some Discworld books, or Neil Gaiman comics. Death doesn't have to come off as Bill & Ted. And of course if they're talking about him being an unstoppable force of destruction rather than literal death, do they really think the (good) Terminator movies would be more effective if the terminators never spoke? 

Argh, now I got a mental image of the NK saying "Fuck you arsehole" in arnies voice that simply won't go away. 

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1 hour ago, falcotron said:

I don't think he's going to betray her at the first hurdle. He really wants to marry her before betraying her. Not because he cares about getting any legitimacy through her or anything, just because that'll be two victories instead of one. So it'll only be when he either realizes he can't have both and has to choose that he's going to betray her.

But given that role in the books, D&D can easily spin this the other way.

Since the last of the Blackfyres died out, the GC haven't converted to being a pro-mainline-Targaryan force before now, so why should they convert now? And Jon isn't really a "new Blackfyre" in any metaphorical sense that would be interesting to them. And helping Cersei to kill off Dany and Jon is revenge—ending Daeron's line as finally as Daemon's line.

D&D really should read some Discworld books, or Neil Gaiman comics. Death doesn't have to come off as Bill & Ted. And of course if they're talking about him being an unstoppable force of destruction rather than literal death, do they really think the (good) Terminator movies would be more effective if the terminators never spoke? If you want implacable destruction that doesn't speak, why not make the Others more alien (or even more Alien) instead of making them more human than in the novels and giving them an identifiable leader with a nice human title?

I think they geniuinely mean death itself. The NK and the WW are death given physical form. Although perhaps that is just semantics at the end of the day. Is there a genuine difference between death and a force of destruction? The White Walkers are also a force of destruction. They were created by the Children to destroy humans... which somewhere along the line became interpreted as destroying life. What is left when life is destroyed? death. 

But seeing the White Walkers as death ties thematically to the through line of the series which is.... death and what makes life meaningful in the face of death. Beric's comments to Jon in 7x06 are almost the thesis statement of the whole show:

Beric Dondarrion: I'm not fighting so some man or woman I barely know can sit on a throne made of swords.

Jon Snow: So, what are you fighting for?

Beric Dondarrion: Life. Death is the enemy. The first enemy and the last.

Jon Snow: But we all die.

Beric Dondarrion: The enemy always wins. And we still need to fight him. That's all I know.

Which at the end of the day is not that different from "all men must die" "all men must serve." The White Walkers are nothing more than an extreme manifestation of this - basically the central question of the series on steroids. Yes we all die and we have to find some meaning in that. But what is the meaning of life when all of humanity is threatened with death? Why should we fight for life? Is human kind worth saving? If we all die, why does it matter if death achieves it ultimate victory now in one swoop versus progressively over time as we all pass away?  Will be interesting to see how those questions are explored in the final 6 episodes. 

Regarding how they look, I don't really have an opinion on it. But on the whole I think it makes sense that they don't speak. This is a story about humans and the human heart in conflict with itself. They are relevant solely because they are a force of destruction/ death that humans have to respond to. The story is about how humans respond. When we pass away we can't negotiate with death or understand its motives. Makes sense as the army of death comes forward to destroy life in one swoop that there also is no negotiation or motives. 

 

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1 hour ago, jcmontea said:

I think they geniuinely mean death itself. The NK and the WW are death given physical form. Although perhaps that is just semantics at the end of the day. Is there a genuine difference between death and a force of destruction? The White Walkers are also a force of destruction. They were created by the Children to destroy humans... which somewhere along the line became interpreted as destroying life. What is left when life is destroyed? death. 

But seeing the White Walkers as death ties thematically to the through line of the series which is.... death and what makes life meaningful in the face of death. Beric's comments to Jon in 7x06 are almost the thesis statement of the whole show:

Beric Dondarrion: I'm not fighting so some man or woman I barely know can sit on a throne made of swords.

Jon Snow: So, what are you fighting for?

Beric Dondarrion: Life. Death is the enemy. The first enemy and the last.

Jon Snow: But we all die.

Beric Dondarrion: The enemy always wins. And we still need to fight him. That's all I know.

Which at the end of the day is not that different from "all men must die" "all men must serve." The White Walkers are nothing more than an extreme manifestation of this - basically the central question of the series on steroids. Yes we all die and we have to find some meaning in that. But what is the meaning of life when all of humanity is threatened with death? Why should we fight for life? Is human kind worth saving? If we all die, why does it matter if death achieves it ultimate victory now in one swoop versus progressively over time as we all pass away?  Will be interesting to see how those questions are explored in the final 6 episodes. 

Regarding how they look, I don't really have an opinion on it. But on the whole I think it makes sense that they don't speak. This is a story about humans and the human heart in conflict with itself. They are relevant solely because they are a force of destruction/ death that humans have to respond to. The story is about how humans respond. When we pass away we can't negotiate with death or understand its motives. Makes sense as the army of death comes forward to destroy life in one swoop that there also is no negotiation or motives. 

 

Well there's also a disservice of your body used... without you in it. 

Ex: 

Wights.

Lady Stoneheart.

"Karl Tanner, from Gin Alley, drinking wine from the skull of Jeor f**king Mormont"

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3 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Well there's also a disservice of your body used... without you in it. 

Ex: 

Wights.

Lady Stoneheart.

"Karl Tanner, from Gin Alley, drinking wine from the skull of Jeor f**king Mormont"

I can't help but smile every time i see Karl Tanner the f*ing legend from Gin Alley mentioned. 

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2 hours ago, jcmontea said:

But seeing the White Walkers as death ties thematically to the through line of the series which is.... death and what makes life meaningful in the face of death.

In Tolkien, death actually is part of what makes life meaningful in the face of death. Illuvatar's "Gift of Men" is why humanity doesn't require absolute stasis the way the elves do, and why humans seek their destinies even in a world where they have direct knowledge of gods and the afterlife. As years go on and time wears on, even the Valar will envy the gift.

All men must die—but not today. That's why what we do today matters. It's only at the end that you can look back and decide whether you've done enough. Pratchett and Gaiman, in different ways, put this idea directly in the mouth of Death him/herself; D&D instead put it in the mouth of Syrio Forel (and also Jojen Reed), but that doesn't mean there's nothing else for Death to say.

Unless, of course, D&D don't really believe their message. There's a difference between fighting for life and refusing to accept the existence of death, between "not today" and "never". The former gives life meaning, the latter denies it. And if they're using the NK as Death personified, and they think that means he needs to be scarier, I think they may be missing their own point.

Anyway, this thread is supposed to be about potential pairings. If the NK is going to be the Terminator, does he have to choose between Cersei, or the younger and more beautiful Sarah Connor, or can he reach beyond the confines of the world and choose Linda Hamilton?

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5 minutes ago, falcotron said:

Anyway, this thread is supposed to be about potential pairings. If the NK is going to be the Terminator, does he have to choose between Cersei, or the younger and more beautiful Sarah Connor, or can he reach beyond the confines of the world and choose Linda Hamilton?

Well, the Terminator in Genisys did have a really sweet relationship with Sarah Connor who was played by Emilia Clarke in that particular movie. I guess we can find some relevance for Game of Thrones in that ... somehow? Where's Megorova with her crazy theories when you need her. ;)

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9 minutes ago, falcotron said:

In Tolkien, death actually is part of what makes life meaningful in the face of death. Illuvatar's "Gift of Men" is why humanity doesn't require absolute stasis the way the elves do, and why humans seek their destinies even in a world where they have direct knowledge of gods and the afterlife. As years go on and time wears on, even the Valar will envy the gift.

All men must die—but not today. That's why what we do today matters. It's only at the end that you can look back and decide whether you've done enough. Pratchett and Gaiman, in different ways, put this idea directly in the mouth of Death him/herself; D&D instead put it in the mouth of Syrio Forel (and also Jojen Reed), but that doesn't mean there's nothing else for Death to say.

Unless, of course, D&D don't really believe their message. There's a difference between fighting for life and refusing to accept the existence of death, between "not today" and "never". The former gives life meaning, the latter denies it. And if they're using the NK as Death personified, and they think that means he needs to be scarier, I think they may be missing their own point.

Anyway, this thread is supposed to be about potential pairings. If the NK is going to be the Terminator, does he have to choose between Cersei, or the younger and more beautiful Sarah Connor, or can he reach beyond the confines of the world and choose Linda Hamilton?

Nighterys is the one true ship 

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4 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Well, the Terminator in Genisys did have a really sweet relationship with Sarah Connor who was played by Emilia Clarke in that particular movie. I guess we can find some relevance for Game of Thrones in that ... somehow? Where's Megorova with her crazy theories when you need her. ;)

Lol. Megorova crushed it with that blue rose! 

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17 hours ago, falcotron said:

In Tolkien, death actually is part of what makes life meaningful in the face of death. Illuvatar's "Gift of Men" is why humanity doesn't require absolute stasis the way the elves do, and why humans seek their destinies even in a world where they have direct knowledge of gods and the afterlife. As years go on and time wears on, even the Valar will envy the gift.

All men must die—but not today. That's why what we do today matters. It's only at the end that you can look back and decide whether you've done enough. Pratchett and Gaiman, in different ways, put this idea directly in the mouth of Death him/herself; D&D instead put it in the mouth of Syrio Forel (and also Jojen Reed), but that doesn't mean there's nothing else for Death to say.

Unless, of course, D&D don't really believe their message. There's a difference between fighting for life and refusing to accept the existence of death, between "not today" and "never". The former gives life meaning, the latter denies it. And if they're using the NK as Death personified, and they think that means he needs to be scarier, I think they may be missing their own point.

Anyway, this thread is supposed to be about potential pairings. If the NK is going to be the Terminator, does he have to choose between Cersei, or the younger and more beautiful Sarah Connor, or can he reach beyond the confines of the world and choose Linda Hamilton?

Thinking about it a bit. I don't really think if they talk or not is really relevant either thematically or not. 

But lets say they talked. They had their own motives, aspirations etc. Basically they would be more human.

Isn't that a tad redundant? We already get the story of a fully fleshed out character with wants, dreams and ambitions who is invading Westeros in order to conquer the continent: Daenerys Targaryen. 

She is the foreign invader who we understand and either support or don't. Not sure we need that story twice just with the second time being a non-human Dany. 

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6 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Thinking about it a bit. I don't really think if they talk or not is really relevant either thematically or not. 

But lets say they talked. They had their own motives, aspirations etc. Basically they would be more human.

Isn't that a tad redundant? We already get the story of a fully fleshed out character with wants, dreams and ambitions who is invading Westeros in order to conquer the continent: Daenerys Targaryen. 

She is the foreign invader who we understand and either support or don't. Not sure we need that story twice just with the second time being a non-human Dany. 

No, because it's pretty clear that we are supposed to support Dany, and we aren't supposed to support the NK. The fact that a tiny faction of fandom watches the show just to hate Dany doesn't change that. If it did, the fact that a tiny faction of fandom already supports the NK, even without him talking, would mean the show is already redundant.

Also, who says their aspirations would be human? Having aliens with alien motivations talk to the humans is a pretty major trope in fantasy and sci-fi. Sure, sometimes the point is that we or the characters are supposed to learn to understand them, but sometimes it's a tragedy that we can't, sometimes understanding them just makes them more horrifying, and so on… there are a million ways to play it.

But anyway, I think I'm being too harsh on D&D here. I doubt they really don't understand that Death can talk and be effective, that agents of death can talk and still be implacable, that aliens can talk and still be alien, etc. We know they paid someone to design a language for the Walkers before deciding not to use it. Most likely, one season, they tried writing the Walkers both ways, and the versions of the scenes where they stayed silent were better, and that's the whole story. It's only when they felt the need to explain their decision to the public that a reasonable decision based on sound storytelling instincts became a silly-sounding decision based on some nonsensical absolute principles. That happens all the time—as you can see from half the sig quotes on this forum.

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3 minutes ago, falcotron said:

No, because it's pretty clear that we are supposed to support Dany, and we aren't supposed to support the NK. The fact that a tiny faction of fandom watches the show just to hate Dany doesn't change that. If it did, the fact that a tiny faction of fandom already supports the NK, even without him talking, would mean the show is already redundant.

Also, who says their aspirations would be human? Having aliens with alien motivations talk to the humans is a pretty major trope in fantasy and sci-fi. Sure, sometimes the point is that we or the characters are supposed to learn to understand them, but sometimes it's a tragedy that we can't, sometimes understanding them just makes them more horrifying, and so on… there are a million ways to play it.

But anyway, I think I'm being too harsh on D&D here. I doubt they really don't understand that Death can talk and be effective, that agents of death can talk and still be implacable, that aliens can talk and still be alien, etc. We know they paid someone to design a language for the Walkers before deciding not to use it. Most likely, one season, they tried writing the Walkers both ways, and the versions of the scenes where they stayed silent were better, and that's the whole story. It's only when they felt the need to explain their decision to the public that a reasonable decision based on sound storytelling instincts became a silly-sounding decision based on some nonsensical absolute principles. That happens all the time—as you can see from half the sig quotes on this forum.

Got it. So you don't disagree with the storytelling choice per say more that that was the only way they could have gone or there was some absolute principal that necessitated it? 

Yes I agree its clear we are not supposed to support the NK. But he is written as such being "death" and all.

Dany seems a little more complicated. I am not sure if its just a tiny faction that is anti-Dany. Certainly not on these message boards. 

But I don't think its written to be unambiguously supportive of her. There were several moments in the show at least where she is presented slightly more negatively and nuanced and we are at the very least meant to think about what she is doing and what her goals are. 

- When she crucifies the masters.

- when she feeds one of them to her dragons 

- showing the field of fire from Jaime's point of view 

- getting Tryion's point of view regarding how she incinerated the Tarly's. 

- and at the end of the day everything Cersei says about her in her propaganda is pretty much true. 

Ultimately what makes her the hero instead of the villain is that a.) she wants power for more than just her personal ambition b.) we don't like Cersei and c.) she has the incredible timing to invade at the same time as her force is needed to save the world and she decides to do that instead of focus on the throne. 

But we are not completely shielded from the darker sides of her conquests. 

But now we are really off topic. So I will add d.) her lover is more on the white of the white black spectrum than she is to tie it back to couple pairings. 

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4 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Got it. So you don't disagree with the storytelling choice per say more that that was the only way they could have gone or there was some absolute principal that necessitated it?

Yeah, that's a good way to put it. I have no problem with the Night King and other Walkers not talking. I think "They don't talk because they're death personified" would be a silly reason, if it were their actual reason, but it probably isn't. And I wish they'd think about more before talking in those behind the episodes and in public interviews.*

4 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

But now we are really off topic. So I will add d.) her lover is more on the white of the white black spectrum than she is to tie it back to couple pairings. 

Of course there are Jon-hating (and generally Stark-hating) Dany fans who will disagree with you on that, too…

Anyway, it's interesting that everyone they've given her before is a little less dark (and all dark in different ways) before she kicks off their redemption. Drogo was a brutal thug. Daario was completely amoral, and had deliberately chosen a lifestyle where nothing more would be expected of him. Jorah had a strong moral sense but had long stopped listening to it out of bitterness. Hizdahr (assuming you take him at his word) would almost certainly have ended up as a rebellious youth who lectures people about freedom and progress while continuing to live off his slaves. And then there's Jon, who's made plenty of mistakes, but always in service of trying to help people.

To continue the progression beyond him, I think she'd have to marry Aslan. Which is why the show can only end up with Jonerys, or with one of them dead and the other a widowed single parent and monarch.

But Nighterys would be fun. Especially if she really does "make death bend the knee", and he's the junior monarch. Imagine what their court would be like.

  • Supplicant: Your graces, I believe if we improve the road into Dorne, it'll be easier for my vassals to keep the peace without as much bloodshed, which will improve trade.
  • NK: (silently turns to Ilyn Payne and draws his finger across his neck)
  • Payne: (silently nods and begins reaching for supplicant)
  • Dany: (sighs) No, no, we're not going to execute him for bringing us a good idea.
  • NK: (looks a wordless question at Dany)
  • Dany: I know your goal is death to all humans, and your goals are important to me, but we did agree to compromise, and we agreed that I'm in charge.
  • NK: (hangs head in dejection like a scolded puppy) 

---

*  I blame Russell T Davies, and maybe George Lucas before him, for creating the expectation that creators are supposed to be part of the hype machine instead of leaving it to the actors, and that their job is to explain why their creation is brilliant.

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Maisie on Arya's ending:

https://winteriscoming.net/2017/09/29/interview-maisie-williams-reveals-her-hope-for-aryas-fate-much-more/

I just want her to be happy and be safe and for someone to look out for her. She’s become so independent, and she’s got quite a hard-ass attitude. I think that it’d be nice to have peace of mind that she’s being protected by an elder. Not sure who that would be. But she’s had it rough, and it’d be nice for her to have a nice hunk. Can’t imagine that really happening—this is Game of Thrones—but in my world that’s what I would like for her.

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4 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Maisie on Arya's ending:

https://winteriscoming.net/2017/09/29/interview-maisie-williams-reveals-her-hope-for-aryas-fate-much-more/

I just want her to be happy and be safe and for someone to look out for her. She’s become so independent, and she’s got quite a hard-ass attitude. I think that it’d be nice to have peace of mind that she’s being protected by an elder. Not sure who that would be. But she’s had it rough, and it’d be nice for her to have a nice hunk. Can’t imagine that really happening—this is Game of Thrones—but in my world that’s what I would like for her.

Sounds like Maisie is shipping Gendrya. ;)

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On 04/10/2017 at 2:15 AM, jcmontea said:

I can't help but smile every time i see Karl Tanner the f*ing legend from Gin Alley mentioned. 

Ah, I know, right? He was a horrible human being who murdered another horrible human being in his own home; he murdered my early favourite Jeor Mortmont and drank wine from his skull, and he tormented, raped and beat Craster's wives and would have done the same to my girl Meera to work out his weird 'mummy issues' had my boy Jon and his justice squad not had impeccable timing... but he was so entertaining I smile whenever I hear him speak. That guy was a "fooking legend" of a villain.

4 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Sounds like Maisie is shipping Gendrya.

That would be my ideal ending for Arya. Her travelling the world, wild and free, with Genry along aside her with his hammer to learn all the smithing techniques they can.

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6 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Sounds like Maisie is shipping Gendrya. ;)

Not Jonrya? 

2 hours ago, Faera said:

Ah, I know, right? He was a horrible human being who murdered another horrible human being in his own home; he murdered my early favourite Jeor Mortmont and drank wine from his skull, and he tormented, raped and beat Craster's wives and would have done the same to my girl Meera to work out his weird 'mummy issues' had my boy Jon and his justice squad not had impeccable timing... but he was so entertaining I smile whenever I hear him speak. That guy was a "fooking legend" of a villain.

100% agree. 

So fun imitating him too. The real question is who is funnier to imitate him or Bobbie B.

“I am drinking wine from Jeor Mormont’s skull.... whats that lord comander” or 

“THE WHORE IS PREGNANT NED!!!!

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