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Season 8 potential characters couple pairings


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2 hours ago, Newstar said:

Even if Arya does sail into the sunset, there's nothing strictly speaking preventing Gendry from accompanying her on her travels, unless he dies or is legitimized and named Lord of Storm's End or whatever. (In the 7x05 script outline, I believe Davos or Jon mentions the possibility of legitimizing Gendry, so it's not that farfetched.)

I went back to check this, since I couldn't remember myself, and nobody explicitly mentions legitimizing Gendry, but the outline does imply it could be done:

"Jon is getting ready to go. Davos enters with Gendry. Davos had told Gendry not to tell anyone his parentage, but then Gendry takes a risk, steps forward, and says, "Hi, I'm Robert Baratheon's son." Davos isn't thrilled that he just said this, but it gives Gendry a great moment to talk to Jon Snow about having a similar life experience. For Gendry: If this is the side I'm going to be on, I shouldn't be afraid to say something. He thinks Jon will understand his background.

Gendry's true parentage would actually matter to the people at Dragonstone. After all, with Stannis dead, who is now Lord Baratheon? Who is lord of Storm's End? For Jon, the bastard son of Ned Stark, meeting the bastard son of his father's best friend would be a big deal.

Jon and Gendry need to start talking to each other, and Gendry volunteers for the mission. Once he understands the importance of what they're doing, he doesn't want to be sitting on the sidelines."

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3 hours ago, Newstar said:

And if Book Sansa never gets Winterfell because of Robb's will, then I don't see how TV Sansa can end up with it in the end, which would theoretically clear the way for Bran or even Arya.

If Sansa doesn't end up with Winterfell, though, what the heck is going to happen to her? It looks like it's endgame Lady of Winterfell or bust at this point.

Sansa has been the character who has lived in more places from Westeros, so I could see her being the Lady of another House, heir of the Tullys in case Edmure/son die, or the Vale if Robin dies, even maintain her Stark name. I can totally see her being the Lady of a castle with Sandor on her side as her Lord.

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5 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Sansa has been the character who has lived in more places from Westeros, so I could see her being the Lady of another House, heir of the Tullys in case Edmure/son die, or the Vale if Robin dies, even maintain her Stark name. I can totally see her being the Lady of a castle with Sandor on her side as her Lord.

I have no idea how Sandor Sansa is even a thing. 

I think Tyrion has a better shot at ending up with Dany than Sandor with Sansa. 

We can’t throw all the rules of realism out at the end to give people happy endings. 

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2 hours ago, Kaguya said:

Am I the only one that hates Brienne/Tormund?

I "hate" it as well, but I'm starting to like Tormund in a way, she sees her as a desirable woman!

I am looking forward the Jaime-Brienne-Tormund triangle, now I appreciate the humorous relief of TB; but of course, TB won't happen. She loves Jaime.

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3 hours ago, jcmontea said:

I have no idea how Sandor Sansa is even a thing. 

I think Tyrion has a better shot at ending up with Dany than Sandor with Sansa. 

We can’t throw all the rules of realism out at the end to give people happy endings. 

Sandor and Sansa have a canon romance in development in the books. She dreams of the unkiss. 

In the show, they made a parallel with tBaTB film https://romancingthecage.tumblr.com/post/90157713456

The show didn't use the dagger part of their encounter, that has a  sexual meaning in order to not confuse the viewers.

He saves her many times, he puts the cloak to her, which is symbolic of marriage and protection.

There are more hints after they separate and she acnkowledges he wont hurt her, on the contrary. She is his little bird.

Tyrion and Sansa were forced to marry, and Tyrion says to Jon that the marriage was a farce this season.

love doesn't equal happy endings, there could be a lot of romances, and all of them end in a tragedy. But Sansa and Tyrion won't remarry.

If Sansa marries agaian, it will be for love.

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In regards to Arya, I recall this conversation between her and Ned in season 1.

Ned: "You will marry a high lord and rule his castle, and your sons shall be knights, and princes, and lords."
Arya: "No...that's not me."

Now a lot has happened since season 1, but in hindsight we know that season 1 had plenty of foreshadowing that didn't actually pay of until later seasons (like 7), and probably still haven't happened yet. This conversation (along with the "that's not you" comment she told Nymeria) makes me think that Arya won't end up marrying, at the very least she won't marry a lord and settle down. If Arya/Gendry end up happening, I very much doubt that Gendry would become a legitimized Baratheon and paramount to the Stormlands and that they will settle down in Storms End and live happily ever after. Instead they will both leave Westeros for a future of adventure and exploration.
 

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42 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

In regards to Arya, I recall this conversation between her and Ned in season 1.

Ned: "You will marry a high lord and rule his castle, and your sons shall be knights, and princes, and lords."
Arya: "No...that's not me."

Now a lot has happened since season 1, but in hindsight we know that season 1 had plenty of foreshadowing that didn't actually pay of until later seasons (like 7), and probably still haven't happened yet. This conversation (along with the "that's not you" comment she told Nymeria) makes me think that Arya won't end up marrying, at the very least she won't marry a lord and settle down. If Arya/Gendry end up happening, I very much doubt that Gendry would become a legitimized Baratheon and paramount to the Stormlands and that they will settle down in Storms End and live happily ever after. Instead they will both leave Westeros for a future of adventure and exploration.
 

Totally. 

Its super interesting how everything will tie back to season 1 in the end. 

 Jon: “I am not a Stark” - 1x01

Dany: “I want to go home” - 1x01

Tywin: “we can collapse into nothing as the Targaryens did” - 1x07

Tywin: “i need you to become the man you were always meant to be”  - 1x07 (to Jaime)

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14 hours ago, Shmedricko said:

I went back to check this, since I couldn't remember myself, and nobody explicitly mentions legitimizing Gendry, but the outline does imply it could be done:

"(...) Gendry's true parentage would actually matter to the people at Dragonstone. After all, with Stannis dead, who is now Lord Baratheon? Who is lord of Storm's End? For Jon, the bastard son of Ned Stark, meeting the bastard son of his father's best friend would be a big deal.

Jon and Gendry need to start talking to each other, and Gendry volunteers for the mission. Once he understands the importance of what they're doing, he doesn't want to be sitting on the sidelines."

Ahhh, thank you! Couldn't recall the exact quote. I agree that it doesn't imply that Gendry will be legitimized, but it suggests that it is possible (and that D&D are at least thinking about what will happen with House Baratheon after the war).

 

12 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Sansa has been the character who has lived in more places from Westeros, so I could see her being the Lady of another House, heir of the Tullys in case Edmure/son die, or the Vale if Robin dies, even maintain her Stark name. I can totally see her being the Lady of a castle with Sandor on her side as her Lord.

Sansa can't take power in the Vale unless she marries the Arryn heir, bears his heir, and has her husband die. Could still happen in the show, of course, but it's looking less and less likely.

TV Sansa's been pretty clear that she never wants to leave Winterfell again, but when the WW shit hits the fan she may not have a choice, and while she's south she may find another option.

 

11 hours ago, Kaguya said:

Am I the only one that hates Brienne/Tormund?

No. It's not cute that he keeps pressing the point when she's clearly not interested. It's basically Littlefinger/Sansa without the power imbalance.

 

8 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

In regards to Arya, I recall this conversation between her and Ned in season 1.

Ned: "You will marry a high lord and rule his castle, and your sons shall be knights, and princes, and lords."
Arya: "No...that's not me."

Now a lot has happened since season 1, but in hindsight we know that season 1 had plenty of foreshadowing that didn't actually pay of until later seasons (like 7), and probably still haven't happened yet. This conversation (along with the "that's not you" comment she told Nymeria) makes me think that Arya won't end up marrying, at the very least she won't marry a lord and settle down. If Arya/Gendry end up happening, I very much doubt that Gendry would become a legitimized Baratheon and paramount to the Stormlands and that they will settle down in Storms End and live happily ever after. Instead they will both leave Westeros for a future of adventure and exploration.
 

Yes, the writers in talking about the Nymeria/Arya scene said that Arya being a lady married to a lord in a castle isn't her. Lady Arya Baratheon of Storm's End is not likely.

 

7 hours ago, jcmontea said:

Totally. 

Its super interesting how everything will tie back to season 1 in the end. 

 Jon: “I am not a Stark” - 1x01

Dany: “I want to go home” - 1x01

Tywin: “we can collapse into nothing as the Targaryens did” - 1x07

Tywin: “i need you to become the man you were always meant to be”  - 1x07 (to Jaime)

Yes! Season 7 was also larded with references to Season 1: "But I'm not a Stark," "We can create a dynasty that will last a thousand years," "All dwarves are bastards in their fathers' eyes," "That's not me," Dany mentioning people blowing smoke up Viserys' ass about how the people of Westeros longed for his return (which Illyrio did in 1x01), etc.

Generally speaking, there aren't that many major characters whose fates seem to be clearly telegraphed (or at least significantly narrowed down) as of the end of Season 7. Here's my list:

Cersei/Varys/Melisandre: dead

Jaime: dead (Olenna predicting that Cersei will "be the end of" Jaime was pretty on the nose)

Jon: King or dead

Dany: Queen or dead

Sam: Lord of the Reach and Warden of the South (I guess the NW will be formally dissolved...?)

Arya: sails off into the sunset

Sansa: Lady of Winterfell (although I have issues with that because of Robb's will in the books and the problem of what will happen with Bran)

The rest? I have ideas, but I can't say that anything's been really obviously telegraphed. Maybe Tyrion and his vineyard, although that could be a death flag, since characters who wax eloquent about their retirement plans don't tend to do so well.

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3 hours ago, Newstar said:

 

Yes! Season 7 was also larded with references to Season 1: "But I'm not a Stark," "We can create a dynasty that will last a thousand years," "All dwarves are bastards in their fathers' eyes," "That's not me," Dany mentioning people blowing smoke up Viserys' ass about how the people of Westeros longed for his return (which Illyrio did in 1x01), etc.

Generally speaking, there aren't that many major characters whose fates seem to be clearly telegraphed (or at least significantly narrowed down) as of the end of Season 7. Here's my list:

Cersei/Varys/Melisandre: dead

Jaime: dead (Olenna predicting that Cersei will "be the end of" Jaime was pretty on the nose)

Jon: King or dead

Dany: Queen or dead

Sam: Lord of the Reach and Warden of the South (I guess the NW will be formally dissolved...?)

Arya: sails off into the sunset

Sansa: Lady of Winterfell (although I have issues with that because of Robb's will in the books and the problem of what will happen with Bran)

The rest? I have ideas, but I can't say that anything's been really obviously telegraphed. Maybe Tyrion and his vineyard, although that could be a death flag, since characters who wax eloquent about their retirement plans don't tend to do so well.

I agree with your list. For Dany and Jon if they end up dead, the only thing I think is they have to die after Jon has his “I am a Stark (since he would actually be a Stark not just a Snow as Lyanna’s legitimate son) and a Targaryen moment” and after Dany feels at home for the first time (maybe she felt 100% at home during boat sex). 

No need for the NW right if they kill the NK?

I could see Tyrion being hand in the new government post war with his vineyard he goes to in order to escape wherever the capital is at that point. 

What do u think of the secondary characters? I am leaning towards a real bloodletting of the seconday characters since so many of them seem like they have already completed whatever arcs they were on except for the Hound and I do think our core 5-7 characters survive. 

 

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46 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

I agree with your list. For Dany and Jon if they end up dead, the only thing I think is they have to die after Jon has his “I am a Stark (since he would actually be a Stark not just a Snow as Lyanna’s legitimate son) and a Targaryen moment” and after Dany feels at home for the first time (maybe she felt 100% at home during boat sex). 

I've gone back and forth on Jon and Dany's survival prospects that I don't even know anymore. For Jon, I'm torn between "If he's going to be endgame king, why kill him off and make such a big deal out of all the resurrected characters being fucked-up zombies?" and "If he's going to die, why bother making such a big deal out of his legitimacy?" I still don't know. The only thing I feel reasonably certain of is that Dany is not going to reign on her own after Jon's death; either she reigns with him or she dies, or at least that's how I see it.

I do think Jon and Dany will be together as a couple until one of them dies.

 

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No need for the NW right if they kill the NK?

The show seems to be setting up a situation where the NK dies and all the wights he resurrected die too, so yes, that would be my guess.

 

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I could see Tyrion being hand in the new government post war with his vineyard he goes to in order to escape wherever the capital is at that point. 

The vineyard thing kind of threw me, because there are no vineyards at Casterly Rock, only in the Reach. So maybe Tyrion does "retire" and doesn't end up as Hand or as Lord of Casterly Rock. However, you could be right, and the vineyard could be his equivalent of a vacation home.

The show has set up Davos as a plausible alternative endgame Hand to Jon (assuming Jon survives), so there is that possibility as well if Tyrion dies or whatever.

 

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What do u think of the secondary characters? I am leaning towards a real bloodletting of the seconday characters since so many of them seem like they have already completed whatever arcs they were on except for the Hound and I do think our core 5-7 characters survive. 

I think GRRM hasn't told D&D about what happens to many or even most of the minor characters--by which I mean Jorah, Bronn, Pod, Tormund, Davos, Gendry, Grey Worm, and so on--so they're likely going to use a number of them as WW fodder (especially the ones who can fight) and use their imaginations for the rest. I agree that there will likely be a bloodbath when it comes to the characters who can fight. If the main characters (Starks + Tyrion + Dany) are safe, then a lot of other characters will have to die to make the victory against the WWs at all meaningful.

If I had to guess about any of the secondary or minor characters, I'd say since Bronn's arc has basically been "LOL social mobility!" I'm guessing he'll survive and end up with the castle and lady he's been whining about. Someone speculated that he'll end up with the Twins, and I kind of love that idea (although I doubt anything like that will happen in the books). I'd also say Gendry could be legitimized in the end; killing him off seems kind of pointless. Gilly will likely survive and marry Sam once he's freed of his vows. Brienne will outlive Jaime, but that's about all I can predict.

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13 minutes ago, Newstar said:

The show has set up Davos as a plausible alternative endgame Hand to Jon (assuming Jon survives), so there is that possibility as well if Tyrion dies or whatever.

Davos could be a perfect Hand for Gendry, if he ends up being King, or as his council if he was a Lord, since the relationship is strong.

Other characters who could end up as Hands are Sam and Bran. Arya asked Ned if Bran could be (to what Isaac agreed) and that's because he is the knowledge department, and Sam as well, he is. They are teaming up together now. The other possibility is Tyrion. I think it's these 4 characters in case they don't become Lords (Bran or Sam or even Tyrion). They could also be Lords and Hands in a way as well.

13 minutes ago, Newstar said:

 

I think GRRM hasn't told D&D about what happens to many or even most of the minor characters--by which I mean Jorah, Bronn, Pod, Tormund, Davos, Gendry, Grey Worm, and so on--so they're likely going to use a number of them as WW fodder (especially the ones who can fight) and use their imaginations for the rest. I agree that there will likely be a bloodbath when it comes to the characters who can fight. If the main characters (Starks + Tyrion + Dany) are safe, then a lot of other characters will have to die to make the victory against the WWs at all meaningful.

Liam C. said that he knows a secret from Martin, so I think he knows his ending. I'd bet that the fates of Sandor and Gendry were told (and thus they re-emerged from death/years offscreen) and the ones of Davos (bc of what I said) and Jorah, since his characterisation in the show has been more emphasized than in the books since the start and also his love for Daenerys.

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26 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Davos could be a perfect Hand for Gendry, if he ends up being King, or as his council if he was a Lord, since the relationship is strong.

If Gendry ends up as king--which I don't think is likely for a number of reasons, but just assuming--then yes, Davos is a natural fit for his Hand. He already has experiencing acting as Hand to a bastard-born king (well, bastard-born as far as anyone knew at the time).

Jaehaerys and Alysanne also had a lowborn Hand (Septon Barth), and apparently it worked out pretty well.

 

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Other characters who could end up as Hands are Sam and Bran. Arya asked Ned if Bran could be (to what Isaac agreed) and that's because he is the knowledge department, and Sam as well, he is. They are teaming up together now. The other possibility is Tyrion. I think it's these 4 characters in case they don't become Lords (Bran or Sam or even Tyrion). They could also be Lords and Hands in a way as well.

Tywin doubled up as Lord and Hand. I don't see why Bran, Sam or Tyrion couldn't do the same.

I do like the idea of Tyrion freely walking away from being Hand and Lord of Casterly Rock--since he'd be in Tywin's shadow no matter what--and washing his hands of the whole toxic Lannister legacy. However, he still seems like the strongest candidate for endgame Hand as of the end of Season 7, and he's still grappling with his identity as a Lannister judging from his actions in S7.

 

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Liam C. said that he knows a secret from Martin, so I think he knows his ending.

Quite possible. He has mentioned this a few times. He seemed pretty pleased about it, too, so it seems likely that Davos survives.

 

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I'd bet that the fates of Sandor and Gendry were told (and thus they re-emerged from death/years offscreen) and the ones of Davos (bc of what I said) and Jorah, since his characterisation in the show has been more emphasized than in the books since the start and also his love for Daenerys.

Davos, maybe, but I doubt that GRRM told D&D anything about the other three, for various reasons.

So many fans have been assuming that Jorah's going to sacrifice himself nobly that it would be interesting if he survived. Jeor's wish was for Jorah to become LC, but if the NK and all the WWs die, that's not looking terribly likely. Maybe Lyanna accepts him back into the Mormont fold? That would be nice.

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47 minutes ago, Newstar said:

I've gone back and forth on Jon and Dany's survival prospects that I don't even know anymore. For Jon, I'm torn between "If he's going to be endgame king, why kill him off and make such a big deal out of all the resurrected characters being fucked-up zombies?" and "If he's going to die, why bother making such a big deal out of his legitimacy?" I still don't know. The only thing I feel reasonably certain of is that Dany is not going to reign on her own after Jon's death; either she reigns with him or she dies, or at least that's how I see it.

I do think Jon and Dany will be together as a couple until one of them dies.

I kinda feel its an all or nothing with those two. They either live and rule “together” or they die “together” defeating the Night King. Maybe I am reading too much into Dany’s together line, but there are just so many parallels between them that it would be less poetic if the end of their stories did not parallel each other. And poetry is a big part of it if someone is going to call the tale “A Song of Ice and Fire” and tell that story in a way that deliberatley highlights how their lives parallel each other which is what the show has been doing. Plus as Maester Aemon said “A Targaryen, alone in the world, such a terrible thing.”

47 minutes ago, Newstar said:

 

The show seems to be setting up a situation where the NK dies and all the wights he resurrected die too, so yes, that would be my guess.

 

The vineyard thing kind of threw me, because there are no vineyards at Casterly Rock, only in the Reach. So maybe Tyrion does "retire" and doesn't end up as Hand or as Lord of Casterly Rock. However, you could be right, and the vineyard could be his equivalent of a vacation home.

The show has set up Davos as a plausible alternative endgame Hand to Jon (assuming Jon survives), so there is that possibility as well if Tyrion dies or whatever.

Davos would be a great hand. Thought about that but so long as Tyrion lives and his relationship with Dany doesn’t go to shit feel he has the inside track. Besides, Davos will fullfil his true calling and become Master of Ships! 

47 minutes ago, Newstar said:

 

I think GRRM hasn't told D&D about what happens to many or even most of the minor characters--by which I mean Jorah, Bronn, Pod, Tormund, Davos, Gendry, Grey Worm, and so on--so they're likely going to use a number of them as WW fodder (especially the ones who can fight) and use their imaginations for the rest. I agree that there will likely be a bloodbath when it comes to the characters who can fight. If the main characters (Starks + Tyrion + Dany) are safe, then a lot of other characters will have to die to make the victory against the WWs at all meaningful.

If I had to guess about any of the secondary or minor characters, I'd say since Bronn's arc has basically been "LOL social mobility!" I'm guessing he'll survive and end up with the castle and lady he's been whining about. Someone speculated that he'll end up with the Twins, and I kind of love that idea (although I doubt anything like that will happen in the books). I'd also say Gendry could be legitimized in the end; killing him off seems kind of pointless. Gilly will likely survive and marry Sam once he's freed of his vows. Brienne will outlive Jaime, but that's about all I can predict.

Agree. I think Jaime has to die in Brienne’s arms (“i want to die in the arms of the woman I love” - Jaime 5x04) 

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6 minutes ago, Newstar said:

If Gendry ends up as king--which I don't think is likely for a number of reasons, but just assuming--then yes, Davos is a natural fit for his Hand. He already has experiencing acting as Hand to a bastard-born king (well, bastard-born as far as anyone knew at the time).

Jaehaerys and Alysanne also had a lowborn Hand (Septon Barth), and apparently it worked out pretty well.

 

Tywin doubled up as Lord and Hand. I don't see why Bran, Sam or Tyrion couldn't do the same.

Yes, I agree with that.

6 minutes ago, Newstar said:

I do like the idea of Tyrion freely walking away from being Hand and Lord of Casterly Rock--since he'd be in Tywin's shadow no matter what--and washing his hands of the whole toxic Lannister legacy. However, he still seems like the strongest candidate for endgame Hand as of the end of Season 7, and he's still grappling with his identity as a Lannister judging from his actions in S7.

 

Quite possible. He has mentioned this a few times. He seemed pretty pleased about it, too, so it seems likely that Davos survives.

I think so as well.

6 minutes ago, Newstar said:

Davos, maybe, but I doubt that GRRM told D&D anything about the other three, for various reasons.

So many fans have been assuming that Jorah's going to sacrifice himself nobly that it would be interesting if he survived. Jeor's wish was for Jorah to become LC, but if the NK and all the WWs die, that's not looking terribly likely. Maybe Lyanna accepts him back into the Mormont fold? That would be nice.

I have to disagree here. I think they are part of the final arc and thus Sandor and Gendry were brought back to be part of it; and, as for Jorah, he has survived so far many times, so I think he has a final role to play as well.

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6 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Davos would be a great hand. Thought about that but so long as Tyrion lives and his relationship with Dany doesn’t go to shit feel he has the inside track. Besides, Davos will fullfil his true calling and become Master of Ships! 

Davos has been a survivor and possibly one of the best hands we have seen in the show. Plus, he has learnt to read and served different kings. He is good in convincing other people around and saving tense situations.

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26 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

I kinda feel its an all or nothing with those two. They either live and rule “together” or they die “together” defeating the Night King. Maybe I am reading too much into Dany’s together line, but there are just so many parallels between them that it would be less poetic if the end of their stories did not parallel each other. And poetry is a big part of it if someone is going to call the tale “A Song of Ice and Fire” and tell that story in a way that deliberatley highlights how their lives parallel each other which is what the show has been doing. Plus as Maester Aemon said “A Targaryen, alone in the world, such a terrible thing.”

Good point. It seems like Jon and Dany are a package deal in the show. Either they both die, or they both live. Of course, if Jon and Dany have a kid and then die, we're back to a Targaryen alone in the world again.

 

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Davos would be a great hand. Thought about that but so long as Tyrion lives and his relationship with Dany doesn’t go to shit feel he has the inside track. Besides, Davos will fullfil his true calling and become Master of Ships! 

I would hope that if Tyrion stops being Hand it's because it was his choice and not because he was forced out. With that said, Tyrion already seems to be on fairly thin ice with Dany--and finding out about Cersei's deception isn't going to improve things--so who knows?

 

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Agree. I think Jaime has to die in Brienne’s arms (“i want to die in the arms of the woman I love” - Jaime 5x04) 

I think so, too.

 

20 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I have to disagree here. I think they are part of the final arc and thus Sandor and Gendry were brought back to be part of it; and, as for Jorah, he has survived so far many times, so I think he has a final role to play as well.

Apart from Theon and Varys, Jorah's one of the few secondary characters who has appeared in all seasons of the show, so whatever end he gets, I hope it's worthy of him.

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On 9/22/2017 at 7:18 AM, Newstar said:

If you can't talk about fictional characters' love lives without losing your temper and resorting to personal attacks, I suggest you take some time to reflect on why that might be.

I didn't lose my temper, but I will not be silent about sexism when I see it.

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On 23.09.2017 at 2:03 PM, Newstar said:

No. It's not cute that he keeps pressing the point when she's clearly not interested. It's basically Littlefinger/Sansa without the power imbalance.

And a 'power imbalance' is pretty much the standard in relationships in this series (though some exceptions occur, like Missandei-Grey Worm).

If that was a show in the modern setting, about normal people, a character acting like Tormund would've been a creep, but in GoT... since it's clear he doesn't pose any threat to Brienne, I can accept it can be played as comedy (though I don't 'ship' them).

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