Why Varys Wears Perfume

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

On 9/16/2017 at 11:51 AM, Seams said:

Lavender is strongly associated with Varys and mint is strongly associated with Littlefinger. Does this reference hint that both Varys and Littlefinger are working behind the scenes to prepare the way for the Targaryens to return to the Red Keep?

Have you done a post in your "Puns and Wordplay" thread about mint? Specifically in its relation to Petyr? If so I would love to read it. 

Do you think GRRM chose to associate Petyr with mint because he is known as the money guy? He turns two dragons into three through his 'magic minting'?

Quote

"Gold," Jaime corrected dryly. "And Littlefinger mints the stuff from goldenrod, I vow."

 

 

Quote

 A man like Petyr Baelish, who had a gift for rubbing two golden dragons together to breed a third, was invaluable to his Hand. 

If I'm too off topic here I apologize and will talk on a different thread if it bothers someone. 

[Seams]

30 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Have you done a post in your "Puns and Wordplay" thread about mint? Specifically in its relation to Petyr? If so I would love to read it. 

Do you think GRRM chose to associate Petyr with mint because he is known as the money guy? He turns two dragons into three through his 'magic minting'?

If I'm too off topic here I apologize and will talk on a different thread if it bothers someone. 

Yes, here is the mint post, for what it's worth. It contains a link to a larger discussion of Petyr as "Master of Coin" and the symbolic coins he manipulates.

[Universal Sword Donor]

Varys has to be Reek at this point. Only explanation

[fire&blood]

2 hours ago, Seams said:

As I keep returning to this thread, I am more persuaded that this is right: Varys the Eunuch is a disguise as much as any of the other disguises we see him wear. The lavender may be his prevailing aroma, but that could just mean that there is an underlying persona the reader has not yet seen (or is not yet aware of seeing)

From the Dunk & Egg stories, we know that Bloodraven used convincing disguises. I wonder whether we are supposed to see Varys as the Bloodraven of his generation? Maybe his bald head is like Egg's bald head, a deliberate measure to hide his tell-tale Targ hair? Bloodraven had a wine stain birthmark; Varys uses sour wine as a disguise. Only little details at this point, but maybe they start to add up.

Some really interesting ideas here, and a very comprehensive set of quotes (in your original version of this post).

The possible connection between Yoren and Varys blows my mind. (I notice that The Hound also smells of sweat and sour wine when he tells Sansa that he could protect her in the unkiss scene.) It doesn't seem possible that Varys and Yoren would be the same person, but the common smell could be a hint that they are linked. In all three cases - Yoren, Rugen and The Hound - a pledge is made to protect a Stark and the promise is either rejected or not delivered as promised.

Hmm. Looking at the descriptions of Yoren now, I don't see that he is part of the sweat and sour wine group: he is described as unwashed, stinky and sour, though. Those could be deliberate aromas, cultivated for a disguise. He shows up to talk to Ned after riding in alone from the situation at the inn at the crossroads, where Catelyn has taken Tyrion prisoner. So we get no corroborating evidence or character witnesses who can prove that he is who he says he is, a recruiter for the Night's Watch. If he is a regular recruiter, thought, it makes sense that Yoren would have a tight relationship with Rugen, who is almost certainly Varys, and who controls the flow of prisoners through the black cells in the dungeon of the Red Keep. Yoren draws on prisoners as recruits for the Night's Watch.

The powder connection to Varys is also very strong, and I hadn't noticed it until seeing your post. If Varys does have something to cover, like Bloodraven's wine stain, the frequent mentions of powder and his stroking of his powdered cheek could be hints about this. Dunk (Ser Duncan the Tall) incurs a notable scar on his cheek (and for wordplay lovers, there is a whole plot revolving around the Chequy Water). Sandor Clegane and Brienne both suffer cheek wounds. Maybe Varys is tied to these Dunk-related characters, but is hiding his cheek wound.

Powder could also be a hint about snow, and that might explain why Ned is unsettled by the powder of Varys. Maybe the symbolism is that powder / snow is only a thin disguise, and the real person is only temporarily obscured by a light dusting of powder or by a bastard's surname. Maybe Varys is showing Ned that he knows that Ned's "bastard son" has a hidden identity.

I believe that Catelyn IV quote is the reader's initial introduction to Varys and the egg comparison has to be significant. Seems like a pretty obvious allusion to Targaryens, with their unhatched dragon eggs, their "Aegon = egg" nicknames and the shaved bald head of Aegon V during his travels with Dunk. Purple is a royal color - Dany's first outfit in her intro to the reader is plum silk.

Maybe these little details add up!

P.S. If Varys is a hidden Targ, I'm thinking he might be one of Rhaella's babies, reported to have died in infancy but perhaps smuggled out of the Red Keep as the Queen realized that someone was poisoning her infants. A topic for another thread, perhaps, but here are some possibilities and a particularly likely candidate, imho, given the introductory comparison of Varys to an egg:

Relations between the king and queen grew even more strained when Rhaella proved unable to give Aerys any further children. Miscarriages in 263 and 264 were followed by a stillborn daughter born in 267. Prince Daeron, born in 269, survived for only half a year. Then came another stillbirth in 270, another miscarriage in 271, and Prince Aegon, born two turns premature in 272, dead in 273. . . .

The march of the king's madness seemed to abate for a time in 274 AC, when Queen Rhaella gave birth to a son. So profound was His Grace's joy that it seemed to restore him to his old self once again...but Prince Jaehaerys died later that same year, plunging Aerys into despair. (The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aerys II)

Can I just say that I love your brain?! That is all  

[TheThreeEyedCow]

On 17/09/2017 at 10:50 PM, mankytoes said:

It's an interesting thought, I guess BO was just a normal smell that people were used to, especially considering how even the rich didn't wash regularly.

Seeing as most men don't seem to wear perfume, it doesn't help him fit in, it makes him stand out. I think part of it may be to make him seem more effeminate, and thus more powerless, in a patriachial world.

As for him really not being a eunuch, I'd say it's more likely "he" is really a woman, and Aegon's mother, but either revalation I think would just come across as cheap, soap opera type sensationalism. Varys is a fascinating character without that kind of twist.

Hmmm be careful to make sure you're talking about Medieval Europe and not present day N.America. The difference between a perfume and a cologne is in the concentration. In Medieval time's, they were still using Alchemy, not chemistry. So they didn't fully understand nor had they established that there was a masculine or feminine scent. It was purely for covering bad smells. 

I read somewhere that QE1 would have public places perfumed so she didn't have to suffer the smell of everyday folk. He's absolutely not alone in wearing perfume. 

[cgrav]

41 minutes ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

Hmmm be careful to make sure you're talking about Medieval Europe and not present day N.America. The difference between a perfume and a cologne is in the concentration. In Medieval time's, they were still using Alchemy, not chemistry. So they didn't fully understand nor had they established that there was a masculine or feminine scent. It was purely for covering bad smells. 

I read somewhere that QE1 would have public places perfumed so she didn't have to suffer the smell of everyday folk. He's absolutely not alone in wearing perfume. 

I agree the gender connotations are anachronistic, but Varys is among very few characters mentioned to wear a fragrance. Even if we want to assume that other people are perfuming themselves, there is some intent behind it being pointed out so frequently and almost exclusively with Varys.

[TheThreeEyedCow]

15 minutes ago, cgrav said:

I agree the gender connotations are anachronistic, but Varys is among very few characters mentioned to wear a fragrance. Even if we want to assume that other people are perfuming themselves, there is some intent behind it being pointed out so frequently and almost exclusively with Varys.

Perhaps....

But you must understand my incredulous position that strong perfume = a different gender? 
    
Perfume does tell us something about Varys. He's hiding his true smell. We know almost for sure that Varys has various identities which would most likely leave him smelling like whatever he just did. Ever been camping and lit a bon fire? Even standing too close to a cheap BBQ will leave you wreaking of smoke. 

Covering his smell is essentially covering his tracks. If anything, it's a basic piece of information that disables the readers abilities to suss out Varys' movements. And, for me, that's a very satisfying explanation. 

For clarity, Varys is suspected of also being the gaoler in the black cells. Can you even imagine the smell? It's a dark, windowless place of suffering and to top it off this gaoler named Rugen sleeps on hay covered in mildew and next to an overflowing chamber pot! Perfume is a textbook move here. 

[cgrav]

@TheThreeEyedCow

I agree on all points, just wanted to highlight that Varys's use of perfume is intentionally conspicuous.

[mankytoes]

5 hours ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

Hmmm be careful to make sure you're talking about Medieval Europe and not present day N.America. The difference between a perfume and a cologne is in the concentration. In Medieval time's, they were still using Alchemy, not chemistry. So they didn't fully understand nor had they established that there was a masculine or feminine scent. It was purely for covering bad smells. 

I read somewhere that QE1 would have public places perfumed so she didn't have to suffer the smell of everyday folk. He's absolutely not alone in wearing perfume. 

I'm talking about neither, I'm talking about Westeros. Most men do not wear perfumes, I'm sure someone, maybe Barristan, said how men should smell of sweat, not perfume. Or think of Satin in the Watch, he was definitely seen as unusual for having perfume in his beard, it seemed linked to him being a whore.

I think the idea masculinity in Westeros reflects modern Western ideas, as well as real medieval times.

[TheThreeEyedCow]

19 hours ago, mankytoes said:

I'm talking about neither, I'm talking about Westeros. Most men do not wear perfumes, I'm sure someone, maybe Barristan, said how men should smell of sweat, not perfume. Or think of Satin in the Watch, he was definitely seen as unusual for having perfume in his beard, it seemed linked to him being a whore.

I think the idea masculinity in Westeros reflects modern Western ideas, as well as real medieval times.

Well, you ought to be talking about Medieval Europe because that's all we have to go on. Perfumes originated in the East. And so too does Varys. Naturally, most men would refrain from using it as you correctly suggested. It's not necessarily 'manly'. But neither is Varys. Nor is Satin. So again, it makes perfect sense that these guys wear it. And the fact that Satin originates in Oldtown suggests that access to the perfumes would most likely be at major ports where there is a lot of commerce. 

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make? Jon would definitely find perfume strange as he's never ventured south of the neck. And half the blokes serving there are the polar opposite to the sort who would wear a scent. Even the women North of the neck and especially the Wall don't seem to use it. 

[falcotron]

11 hours ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

Perfumes originated in the East. And so too does Varys.

Varys comes from east of Westeros, but not from Yi Ti or anything. Lys does not represent the Orient, it represents medieval France more than anything else, just as Westeros represents Britain.

Also, what do you mean by "Perfumes originated in the East"? There are a few ways you could maybe make that true if you stretched things enough, but none of them seem to obviously fit with why anyone would expect Varys to be perfumed.

[TheThreeEyedCow]

6 hours ago, falcotron said:

Varys comes from east of Westeros, but not from Yi Ti or anything. Lys does not represent the Orient, it represents medieval France more than anything else, just as Westeros represents Britain.

Also, what do you mean by "Perfumes originated in the East"? There are a few ways you could maybe make that true if you stretched things enough, but none of them seem to obviously fit with why anyone would expect Varys to be perfumed.

It's True that Lys can't be considered 'The East'. But it is east of Westeros, and it would have more influence from Eastern trade than say White Harbor or Gullstown or Braavos. So I would consider Lys to be a sort of Venice or Rome. Close proximity to the East with reasonable access to their markets. Merchants aren't inclined to gamble with their goods on the high seas. They want the shortest investment with the highest yield. Shipping goods from The East to Britain in Medieval times was extremely difficult, costly and there was little guarantee of success. A big part of the trade in Lys is in slaves. A market that Westeros is not involved in. So we can see how the Lys are trading more with Essos than Westeros. High frequency of trade would influence their market and it would resemble more Essos than Westeros. So goods, including perfume, would become more established over time.

The Lyseni take more pride in being a skilled merchant than swordsman. Plus it's a city dominated by wealth. And they have plenty of alchemist so there's a plethora of poisons and perfumes anyway. I'd guess it's because they trade with more exotic cities in the far reaches of Essos but either way, Varys travel from east to west, bring perfume with him in a very logical fashion.

You're hung up on this 'expecting' thing. I'm not saying characters should 'expect' Varys to be perfumed. I'm saying you, the reader, with even a vague knowledge of Medieval Europe would understand that queer, luxury items that smelled foreign would materialise. The only people who could afford them would be the wealthy, so the average peasant in either Westeros or Britain may never even get a whiff of nutmeg or other spices. A man of Jon's sort would of only smelled something similar on a woman, and even then it's not likely that perfumes were in demand in the rugged North. 

We're talking about a wealthy man, with a history as a mummer, living in the capital, born in a city where perfume is made, who has numerous identities and a bunch of odors to cover. It would be a bit of a blunder had George not stated the guy was wearing a scent. 

[Frey Kings]

The meaning and uses of Perfumes around the world since very early times is quite vast and unique, Its serves more functions than just a fragrance, distinguishing different classes, and hygiene purposes.

Varys is like the perfume.

 

Since Varys came to KL, he worked hard to overthrow its rule but not destroy it. Which is why he whispered Rhaegar's plans to overthrow Aerys at the Tourney of Harrenhall and why he whispered to keep the gates shut for Tywin. I think he liked Robert's reign because he wasn't really ruling nor destroying the IT. and so on and so on and so on. Until fAegon arrives and saves the day.

1) assume different disguises 2) mask odors from traveling  3) look less threatening

 

Another reason why he has so many products and uses so much of it regardless, is possibly that he wants a new identity that disconnects him away from his former life.