DominusNovus

Your favorite 'hateable' character

103 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, DominusNovus said:

I thought of an interesting way to consider this question: What if you knew this person?  Setting aside the perils of Westeros itself, how many would want to be Cersei's husband, Randyll's kid, Walder's dinner guest, Aliser's student, etc.?

Well as Cersei's husband I wouldn't be raping her, so maybe that situation isn't so equivalent to Sam being chained to a wall, eh?

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Just now, Chebyshov said:

Well as Cersei's husband I wouldn't be raping her, so maybe that situation isn't so equivalent to Sam being chained to a wall, eh?

Do you really think that Cersei would treat her hisband better in that situation?

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2 minutes ago, DominusNovus said:

Do you really think that Cersei would treat her hisband better in that situation?

Yurp.

I also don't really hold her attempts to control her sexual agency against her, given the situation, to be perfectly honest. 

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17 minutes ago, Chebyshov said:

Yurp.

I also don't really hold her attempts to control her sexual agency against her, given the situation, to be perfectly honest. 

You really think she wouldn’t try to have Robert killed? From everything we see, her decision is based in the desire to control the situation regarding her and Jaime and their kids.

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17 minutes ago, DominusNovus said:

You really think she wouldn’t try to have Robert killed? From everything we see, her decision is based in the desire to control the situation regarding her and Jaime and their kids.

I think she would have done what she needed to do to avoid high treason charges, sure. I also think her response to abuse with more abuse is not meant to be taken as a positive. But I object to the framing of being her husband as being on par with being raised by Randyll Tarly.

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Just now, Chebyshov said:

I think she would have done what she needed to do to avoid high treason charges, sure. I also think her response to abuse with more abuse is not meant to be taken as a positive. But I object to the framing of being her husband as being on par with being raised by Randyll Tarly.

I agree. Had Robert loved her & treated her kindly there is a good chance the children would've been his anyway IMO

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17 minutes ago, Chebyshov said:

I think she would have done what she needed to do to avoid high treason charges, sure. I also think her response to abuse with more abuse is not meant to be taken as a positive. But I object to the framing of being her husband as being on par with being raised by Randyll Tarly.

Survival rate of being raised by Randyll: 100%

Survival rate of being married to Cersei: 0%

15 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I agree. Had Robert loved her & treated her kindly there is a good chance the children would've been his anyway IMO

From the woman whose own POV states that she never forgave Robert for killing Rhaegar? Who was fucking her brother when Rhaegar was still alive, long before being married to Robert was anywhere near a plan?

There’s liking someone in full knowledge of their character, warts and all, and there’s whitewashing their character.

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53 minutes ago, DominusNovus said:

Survival rate of being raised by Randyll: 100%

Survival rate of being married to Cersei: 0%

From the woman whose own POV states that she never forgave Robert for killing Rhaegar? Who was fucking her brother when Rhaegar was still alive, long before being married to Robert was anywhere near a plan?

There’s liking someone in full knowledge of their character, warts and all, and there’s whitewashing their character.

Haha! I gotcha. I know she is bad. I just feel like she may not have been as bad if Robert hadn't been whoring & drinking. 

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1 hour ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Haha! I gotcha. I know she is bad. I just feel like she may not have been as bad if Robert hadn't been whoring & drinking. 

Well, there’s their sexual relationship, and there’s his extracurricular activities. If Cersei was his only outlet for sexual release, I actually think he would have died sooner!

But I do agree with the general notion that Robert didn’t help.

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Littlefinger. As much as I relish his eventual demise, I find something very entertaining about characters who are two clever steps ahead of everyone else. As good as Tyrion (usually) is at solving puzzles, Littlefinger makes them knowing that he'll be on to something else long before his malfeasance is discovered. 

Plus I give him bonus points for selling Jeffrey's life to the Tyrells. 

He might be the only important character, besides The Mountain, who really doesn't have a sympathetic angle, and may well be a sociopath. Really, having an unsympathetic, shallow personality makes it easier to enjoy his schemes without getting caught up in the character's development. 

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House Frey

 

NVM they tarnished their reputation. Its a stain thats going to be hard to wash up even by the most pious and honorable men.

 

 

Arianne Martell, I just feel like Doran is training her to rule after him.

Edited by StraightFromAsshai

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Cersei if she counts. I hope she regains power for a while at least, and takes down those righteous sparrows. And Littlefinger as well, I hope he rises higher before he falls. But I don't want to see either on top at the end so my support is only fleeting.

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2 hours ago, Chebyshov said:

I think she would have done what she needed to do to avoid high treason charges, sure. I also think her response to abuse with more abuse is not meant to be taken as a positive. But I object to the framing of being her husband as being on par with being raised by Randyll Tarly.

I dunno, not defending Randyll's treatment, but Sam is exceptionally cowardly. I'm not blessed with great athletic ability, but I was always very enthusiastic at sports, so I guess I would have been the same if trained in fighting and hunting. I think he would have been hard on me, but at least had some appreciation for me efforts.

Whereas being cuckholded by someone with their twin? I feel like any marriage with Cersei is likely to go shit eventually. She was so angry with Robert's love of Lyanna, but didn't she have the same attitude to Rhaegar (let alone Jaime)? And she is so murderous, just think of Melara Hetherspoon.

I guess Theon is considered redeemed enough not to count? Because he's my favourite character overall.

Probably Roose. I'm not the biggest Stark lover, so I can forgive them more than most, and you've got to respect a magnificant bastard. With equal resources, I'd back him against Tywin every time.

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With regard to Cersei, I think we're supposed to understand a great deal of her hateability as being the core of her personality. No matter how Robert treated her (a contributing factor no doubt), she was still very disappointed not to marry Rhaegar, she idolized Tywin, and had that prophecy that set her up for lifelong paranoia. Perhaps a kinder Robert would not have been murdered, but I don't think she'd be much better of a person on the inside. I think she'd have found other people to hurt to gain power for herself.

Edited by cgrav

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I actually "feel" for all the POV character, I just get in their mindset, when I'm reading their chapters (except maybe GoT Sansa), so I'll go for Cersei here. I was literally pissed when she was captured by HS and hoped that she escaped from septas. When reading here chapters I vividly imagine Marg as backstabbing bitch :dunno: and after that I say to myself "Dude, wtf were you thinking?!"

Also Victarion. Here I have no regret after reading. I really hope he somehow manages to take Euron down.

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42 minutes ago, mankytoes said:

I dunno, not defending Randyll's treatment, but Sam is exceptionally cowardly. I'm not blessed with great athletic ability, but I was always very enthusiastic at sports, so I guess I would have been the same if trained in fighting and hunting. I think he would have been hard on me, but at least had some appreciation for me efforts.

While that is basically my take on Randyll for why I like him (plus, it helps that I had a hardass dad growing up) and I am, to some degree, defending him, I gotta stick up for Sam here.  He's proven himself clearly capable of overcoming his fears, so he's clearly not as big a coward as he's often considered.  When Sam's back is against the wall and terrified, he holds his own.  I think he just believes himself to be such a coward (with Randyll playing a large part) that he can't see his own bravery.

Lets remember: Sam was confronted by an Other, a being he had every reason to think was invincible, and he defeated it.  Whereas... fAegon froze up when fighting a diseased man on a boat, when fAegon's side had superior numbers.

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3 minutes ago, apovsic said:

I actually "feel" for all the POV character, I just get in their mindset, when I'm reading their chapters (except maybe GoT Sansa), so I'll go for Cersei here. I was literally pissed when she was captured by HS and hoped that she escaped from septas. When reading here chapters I vividly imagine Marg as backstabbing bitch :dunno: and after that I say to myself "Dude, wtf were you thinking?!"

Also Victarion. Here I have no regret after reading. I really hope he somehow manages to take Euron down.

Don't feel constrained to POV characters!  I like Victarion, too.  I don't think he's nearly as dumb as many think (or as GRRM says, sorry, word of god!), though I'm not saying he's smart.  He's just... he sees the quickest solution to every problem and boy does he take it.  So refreshing.  He's the sort of guy who could be so easily underestimated and screw up the plans of some of the great players in the game, like Littlefinger or Varys or Tyrion (or those that think they're great players, like Cersei) by just killing some crucial piece on their chessboard.  You know, like how in the old school CRPGs, you could kill plot-important characters and screw up the entire game?  Victarion would do that all day long.

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On 20.9.2017 at 11:05 PM, DominusNovus said:

Hmm, I wonder if you could call Tarly a Mohist?

Hm, good point! Not entirely maybe, as we dont know enough about his thought on this stupid War of the five Kings (though he does not seem amused on its outcome he sees in the Riverlands) and the other lordlings and their behaviour, but for all we have seen he judges all people by the same set of rules, no matter that their standing toward him is. So yes, he has tendencies in that direction.

6 hours ago, DominusNovus said:

I thought of an interesting way to consider this question: What if you knew this person?  Setting aside the perils of Westeros itself, how many would want to be Cersei's husband, Randyll's kid, Walder's dinner guest, Aliser's student, etc.?

Cersei's husband: No, thanks. Even if i do think that Robert made everything worse and she may have carried out a kid or two from a different man.

Randyll's kid: Well. I think I could have been able to make him allow me to go to the Citadel, as I'm bookish but quite stubborn and not as big a coward as Sam thinks he is, and I'm also a little more athletic. Maybe Randyll would have accepted the geekish interests of a more headstrong child. Or it would be the Wall for me too. :D

Walder's dinner guest: Well, no problem here, as I would not be so stupid and hurt his already trampled pride.

Alliser's student: We would have a lot of fun together. Beside all my faults I have one strong side, which drove my driving teacher insane: I tend toward self irony, so the more sarcastic insults he threw at me, the more I laughed. It would have driven Alliser mad (and I would have been beaten green and blue. still laughing). :P

Edited by Morte
spelling, spelling ... SPELLING

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Cersei. She is entertaining as hell. Her one-liners are by far one of the best. 

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