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Angel Eyes

Sansa should have killed Littlefinger herself.

48 posts in this topic

11 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

And then on the other hand, we have Robb, who had never executed anyone, execute Rickard Karstark with a single blow.

 

7 hours ago, House Rootbreaker said:

Ser Rodrik had a thick neck compared to Rickard Karstark

Wasn't Theon's weapon of choice a bow instead of a sword? If so, it would make sense that Robb is better than Theon with a sword, and that's why he was able to execute Rickard Karstark with one blow while Theon butchered Ser Rodrick's execution.

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On 24/09/2017 at 11:24 AM, Nowy Tends said:

Arya, fetch me a block…

Boom!

Aarrrrrrgggg!!!!!

Oops, sorry Lord Baelish, let me try again…

Arya: Seven hells, Sansa, just let me do it! You're embarrassing yourself in front of our bannermen.

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35 minutes ago, 4 Eyed Crow said:

Arya: Seven hells, Sansa, just let me do it! You're embarrassing yourself in front of our bannermen.

Lyanna Mormont: I think we've had enough small talk;

(she uses her small sword) BOING!

Everyone in the hall: err, ah, hum, ok…

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36 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

Lyanna Mormont: I think we've had enough small talk;

(she uses her small sword) BOING!

Everyone in the hall: err, ah, hum, ok…

Arya: Oh, look! We both have our own little swords — wait a minute, that's NEEDLE! You took Needle from me, and I didn't even notice!

Lyanna: That's right. I heard you've had Faceless Men training? Pffft!

(Jaqen H'ghar appears out of nowhere)

Jaqen: A girl is a better No One than Arya Stark of — 

Lyanna: Shut up!

(Lyanna sticks Jaqen with the pointy end)

Edited by 4 Eyed Crow

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6 hours ago, jcmontea said:

 

Not sure how Sansa can represent purity on the show after the way she killed Ramsey. Not only did she feed him to his dogs, but her brother deliberately stopped himself from killing Ramsey in order to give Sansa that kill. Also, this is the woman that wanted to strip a teenage boy and girl of their ancestral home because of the crimes of their uncles/ parents. 

Maybe in the books, but in the show Sansa def does not represent innocence and purity. 

EDIT: This is the woman that wrote off her brother as dead before a major battle. The woman who openly admires Cersei. The woman who at least thought about taking out her own sister.

If anything, Sansa represents the loss of innocence and the embrace of pragmatism in order to stay alive and safe. 

Yeah I don't understand this either.

Sansa is broken goods, a schemer, a cold calculating pragmatic, someone who lies in order to either get what she wants or survive, and who isn't above threatening to kill people, let alone having people killed. I actually like Sansa (most of the time anyway), but there is nothing innocent or pure about her currently.


 

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Technically Sandra didn't pass sentence on LF at all. Arya murdered him with his own dagger (that he'd generously given to Bran) without a word from Sandra.

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4 hours ago, CaptainTheo said:

Technically Sandra didn't pass sentence on LF at all. Arya murdered him with his own dagger (that he'd generously given to Bran) without a word from Sandra.

That whole "trial" was all kinds of messed up. 

For us watchers we get it. LF is bad so it's all good. Bit in universe, it's honestly downright scary the way it went down. To any onlookers, it looked like these little kids straight up murdered a lord. And no one takes issue.

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The whole thing can be considered an example of a Kangaroo Court - it is cited as one on the TV Tropes website. LF was not officially arrested, he thought it was someone else's trial and was not given any time to prepare a defence or summon witnesses or take the black - unlike Tyrion, who was also in a Kangaroo Court but had all three options (in theory; in practice there were no witnesses available to him really). From my perspective it made Sandra look like the villain and LF the victim.

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On 10.10.2017 at 11:09 PM, CaptainTheo said:

LF was not officially arrested, he thought it was someone else's trial and was not given any time to prepare a defence or summon witnesses

I believe many member here have a wrong and over-rated picture of trials, sentencing and execution in this medieval Westeros setting.

Ned stark executed the Night Watch's deserter straight away. Joffrey let Ned Stark be decapitated without trial. Brienne sentencing and executing Stannis Baratheon after the battle in one smooth go, Danaerys sentencing and executing Tarly father and son by dragon fire. and so on. Lords and Kings have the power to sentence to death. It's that simple.

As far as the people in the great hall of Winterfell are convinced, Petyr Baelish is guilty of the crimes, they will be fine with it.

Back to the topic: Ned Starks rule applies to men and it's his very own codex, not law or general rule of the North. Sansa and Arya act as "pack" here. I have no problem with that. But of course it depicts Sansa as kind of weak and womanly, and Arya as strong and androgynic.

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On 9/25/2017 at 7:50 AM, Angel Eyes said:

And then on the other hand, we have Robb, who had never executed anyone, execute Rickard Karstark with a single blow.

He had handled a sword since childhood, though.

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On 10/13/2017 at 9:27 AM, Kajjo said:

I believe many member here have a wrong and over-rated picture of trials, sentencing and execution in this medieval Westeros setting.

Ned stark executed the Night Watch's deserter straight away. Joffrey let Ned Stark be decapitated without trial. Brienne sentencing and executing Stannis Baratheon after the battle in one smooth go, Danaerys sentencing and executing Tarly father and son by dragon fire. and so on. Lords and Kings have the power to sentence to death. It's that simple.

As far as the people in the great hall of Winterfell are convinced, Petyr Baelish is guilty of the crimes, they will be fine with it.

Back to the topic: Ned Starks rule applies to men and it's his very own codex, not law or general rule of the North. Sansa and Arya act as "pack" here. I have no problem with that. But of course it depicts Sansa as kind of weak and womanly, and Arya as strong and androgynic.

I think the custom of having the lord execute criminals is practiced by each house in the North. It’s First Men practice not limited to the Starks. Sansa is the head of House Stark as Jon technically does not belong to a house as a Snow and Bran has ceded his rights.

Edited by Angel Eyes

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On 10/13/2017 at 10:27 AM, Kajjo said:

I believe many member here have a wrong and over-rated picture of trials, sentencing and execution in this medieval Westeros setting.

Ned stark executed the Night Watch's deserter straight away.

Ned also condemned Gregor Clegane to death in absentia on the basis of vague eyewitness evidence, so clearly he wasn't a stickler for trial procedure.

As far as the OP, the "he who passes sentence, swings the sword" maxim is very much a patriarchal construct that assumes the judge is a man trained at arms.  Sansa's not a warrior, killing people herself isn't what she's trained for or consistent with how she operates.

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On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 4:28 PM, jcmontea said:

 

Not sure how Sansa can represent purity on the show after the way she killed Ramsey. Not only did she feed him to his dogs, but her brother deliberately stopped himself from killing Ramsey in order to give Sansa that kill. Also, this is the woman that wanted to strip a teenage boy and girl of their ancestral home because of the crimes of their uncles/ parents. 

Maybe in the books, but in the show Sansa def does not represent innocence and purity. 

EDIT: This is the woman that wrote off her brother as dead before a major battle. The woman who openly admires Cersei. The woman who at least thought about taking out her own sister.

If anything, Sansa represents the loss of innocence and the embrace of pragmatism in order to stay alive and safe. 

I agree, Sansa is by NO way an innocent for all those reasons and I think she could've easily ordered Arya killed and felt nothing. I do think she'll have Arya as her hand/enforcer though.

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3 hours ago, Colonel Green said:

Ned also condemned Gregor Clegane to death in absentia on the basis of vague eyewitness evidence, so clearly he wasn't a stickler for trial procedure.

As far as the OP, the "he who passes sentence, swings the sword" maxim is very much a patriarchal construct that assumes the judge is a man trained at arms.  Sansa's not a warrior, killing people herself isn't what she's trained for or consistent with how she operates.

Well, he would have gone if he was able to ride. Wasn't it Tywin's plan to lure Ned into the Riverlands and Jaime screwed it up by attack Ned in the streets, leading to his injured leg?

It's still custom. You don't hear of headsmen in the North and it's still passed down from generation to generation to personally execute lawbreakers. Plus, Sansa's supposed to be going back to Northern ways from Season 6 onward, otherwise be seen as "not of the North". In fact, Arya mocks Sansa for her Southern airs.

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17 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

He had handled a sword since childhood, though.

Do the Starks have a block to decapitate dummies?

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9 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Well, he would have gone if he was able to ride.

That wasn't my point.  My point was that Ned had no problem condemning Gregor to death without giving him any opportunity to defend himself, and on very slim evidence.

Quote

It's still custom. 

A custom for male rulers with martial skill.  Customs change, and in this case it's making them less sexist and more egalitarian.

Beyond which, I rather doubt this was followed in every case.  In a more just world where Ned lived to be 80, was he still going to be trying to lift Ice with his arthritic hands to chop off heads?  One tends to doubt it.

Edited by Colonel Green

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3 hours ago, TyrionFan82 said:

I agree, Sansa is by NO way an innocent for all those reasons and I think she could've easily ordered Arya killed and felt nothing. I do think she'll have Arya as her hand/enforcer though.

I think it would be a stretch to say that Sansa would feel nothing. Her experiences have hardened her for sure, but she isn't dead on the inside.

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58 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Well, he would have gone if he was able to ride. Wasn't it Tywin's plan to lure Ned into the Riverlands and Jaime screwed it up by attack Ned in the streets, leading to his injured leg?

It's still custom. You don't hear of headsmen in the North and it's still passed down from generation to generation to personally execute lawbreakers. Plus, Sansa's supposed to be going back to Northern ways from Season 6 onward, otherwise be seen as "not of the North". In fact, Arya mocks Sansa for her Southern airs.

And Sansa would've swung the sword if she was a skilled swordsman. If debility allows one to circumvent a custom, why isn't not being skilled at arms just as valid?

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6 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

And Sansa would've swung the sword if she was a skilled swordsman. If debility allows one to circumvent a custom, why isn't not being skilled at arms just as valid?

Exactly. And I doubt most other Nothern ladies would have done it, either, or that anyone in their courts would have even briefly expected them to. They'd probably stare at the idea.

Edited by Noneofyourbusiness

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