Lutarez Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 But what about the rest of the universe ? Are the gods only real in Earwa because the "barrier" between the worlds is thin enough to permit human/non-man thoughts to influence the outside ? Or do the gods exist(and are aware of everything) but can't influence anything else ? Also, how far into the universe does the no-gods influence extend ? Is erwa the obly place of this kind, and if yes, why ? So many damn questions that bakker will probably never answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.H. Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Lutarez said: Also, how far into the universe does the no-gods influence extend ? Is erwa the obly place of this kind, and if yes, why ? I've thought about this before and I think the only plausible exploitation is that The Void (i.e. space) is a non-transmissible medium. So, each planet is a "island" unto itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 6 minutes ago, .H. said: I've thought about this before and I think the only plausible exploitation is that The Void (i.e. space) is a non-transmissible medium. So, each planet is a "island" unto itself. Then why would the progenitors of the inchoroi be damned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 4 hours ago, Kalbear said: Then why would the progenitors of the inchoroi be damned? They're not, they're just assholes that like shaking up ants in the damnation jar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 I presume the no god also makes other worlds unable to have children as well. They are just, like, WTF is happening!? Unless they get a bad feeling towards a vague point in the sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 But the No-God is a tool the Inchoroi had previously used on other planets. Bakker tells us the importance of the Anasurimbor is that they replicate the brains of the Insertants that the Inchoroi used before. So either the No-God's effects are local to a planet or the No-God's no-baby function only works on the promised world. Or, the No-God's effects are universal, but the last time the Inchoroi used the No-God, it was so far back into the past that it wasn't recorded even by the Nonmen history (so it's possible the Inchoroi actually travel space at sub-lightspeed without any warp contrivance). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince of Newcastle Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Hi everyone, I haven’t posted here in quite a while, but I have just finished the Unholy Consult and I have questions. I have done some lurking but can’t seem to find answers for everything. Other than being a POV to follow Kellhus without us having to be in the Aspect Emperors head, why was Mallowebi decapitated? It was all a bit Areo Hottah. The voice in Kelmomas’ head… Was that the No-God all along and not his murdered brother? What was the whole ‘Head on a pole behind you’ bit about? I was hoping the Unholy Consult would have explained it, but it didn’t seem to (It may have, the book was very vague in places) What happened to Momum? A God brought down an Earthquake and killed everyone? Kellhus had struck a deal with Ajokli I believe, did he deliberately allow the skin spy to salt Kellhus? When Ajokli took control of Cniur, he didn’t seem to know Kellhus was dead? When Mimara seen the Scalpers through the judging eye, and she said they were all Ciphrang, I thought it was just a euphemism for the level of Damnation, but I am now thinking that if you are damned enough, you actually get to be a Ciphrang in the afterlife and devour and torture souls forever? I feel the No-God seems to be the best solution to damnation since its incredibly unfair how it all works. I probably have lo0ads more questions but these are just a few… Maybe this series was a bit complex for my tiny mind. I also feel the Aspect Emperor wasn’t a patch on The Prince of Nothing. Thanks everyone, I love lurking on these boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.H. Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 13 hours ago, Kalbear said: Then why would the progenitors of the inchoroi be damned? Because while each is an "island," they all still follow (mostly) the same rules? Except Eärwa of course. The same essential meta-physical rules apply on each world, just like the same rules of physics (would presumably) apply. Damnation would seem to be a status marked upon your soul. I guess in the same way that if you gave a particle the status of spinning up, traveling to another world, that particle would still be spinning up on arrival. Once damned, you are always marked as damned. I guess it is also possible that the Outside is a "reflection" of the Inside (or vice versa) so that The Void (space) being "empty" of life, is indeed void. However, the Outside must still have some presence (or "pull") even in the Void, because otherwise, escaping damnation would be as simple as finding the most remote area of space and simply just dying there. I guess a relatively simply "solution" to this would be that the Outside, even in the most remote places of the Void, still has a pull on your soul. So, even if you die in the Void, you soul is drawn to the closest pocket of the Outside. A sort of "gravitational pull" that, something like the Strong Force, is somehow (mostly) irrespective of distance. Each planet must have something of an "Outside Well" akin to a gravitational well. So, in order to "defeat" this pull, the solution is to actually sit in the well, but change the rules of the well. If one was to sit outside a well, you'd be "pulled" toward some other one. I mean, I am just throwing some bull-shit around. It doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility, but it does start to break down at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 7 hours ago, The Prince of Newcastle said: Other than being a POV to follow Kellhus without us having to be in the Aspect Emperors head, why was Mallowebi decapitated? It was all a bit Areo Hottah. Well, there's a bit in the glossary that talks about Kellhus replacing his own head, and Malowebi's soul is intact, so one common theory is that Kellhus' soul is hanging with Malowebi there. 7 hours ago, The Prince of Newcastle said: The voice in Kelmomas’ head… Was that the No-God all along and not his murdered brother? We don't know. I would guess not, because the No-God is Kelmomas. (this is why Kelmomas is invisible to the gods, because he has always been destined to be the No-God. 7 hours ago, The Prince of Newcastle said: What was the whole ‘Head on a pole behind you’ bit about? I was hoping the Unholy Consult would have explained it, but it didn’t seem to (It may have, the book was very vague in places) No idea, save that Bakker thought it was a cool, creepy thing he saw one day when writing in the coffee shop. 7 hours ago, The Prince of Newcastle said: What happened to Momum? A God brought down an Earthquake and killed everyone? Yep. Momas brought down an earthquake and killed everyone. Rocks fall, everyone dies. 7 hours ago, The Prince of Newcastle said: Kellhus had struck a deal with Ajokli I believe, did he deliberately allow the skin spy to salt Kellhus? When Ajokli took control of Cniur, he didn’t seem to know Kellhus was dead? Kellhus didn't intend to let Ajokli take over. Ajokli didn't know Kellhus was dead, and assumes that he's the No-God. The only people who know Kellhus isn't the No-God are the Dunyain Consult (known as the DunSult). 7 hours ago, The Prince of Newcastle said: When Mimara seen the Scalpers through the judging eye, and she said they were all Ciphrang, I thought it was just a euphemism for the level of Damnation, but I am now thinking that if you are damned enough, you actually get to be a Ciphrang in the afterlife and devour and torture souls forever? Yep. Some people turn into Ciphrang. Maybe even gods. 7 hours ago, The Prince of Newcastle said: I feel the No-God seems to be the best solution to damnation since its incredibly unfair how it all works. Go Consult! Choose Consult! 7 hours ago, The Prince of Newcastle said: I also feel the Aspect Emperor wasn’t a patch on The Prince of Nothing. That seems to be one of the bigger consensuses, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 6 hours ago, .H. said: Because while each is an "island," they all still follow (mostly) the same rules? Except Eärwa of course. The same essential meta-physical rules apply on each world, just like the same rules of physics (would presumably) apply. If that's the case, I don't see your point exactly. Even if there is a localized Outside for every material world, it doesn't really change much, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.H. Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, Kalbear said: If that's the case, I don't see your point exactly. Even if there is a localized Outside for every material world, it doesn't really change much, does it? Only that changes made to one localized interface between the World and the Outside doesn't mean that every interface between the World and the Outside would be changed. So, you could bar and lock one door, but that doesn't mean others doors in other places would be closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, .H. said: Only that changes made to one localized interface between the World and the Outside doesn't mean that every interface between the World and the Outside would be changed. So, you could bar and lock one door, but that doesn't mean others doors in other places would be closed. So you're basically saying the Inchoroi progenitors got it wrong and simply failed to save themselves locally? Or that the Inverse Fire sees a projection of what you would be if you were in hell, but not the actuality of you being in hell? This does make me wish that one of the more farfetched theories occurred, and that TUC resolved the issue of Earwa but then the last sentence is something like "Now, we board Ark, for there are thousands more worlds to save" and the next series is just about Kellhus IN SPAAAACE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gronzag Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 19 hours ago, The Prince of Newcastle said: When Mimara seen the Scalpers through the judging eye, and she said they were all Ciphrang, I thought it was just a euphemism for the level of Damnation, but I am now thinking that if you are damned enough, you actually get to be a Ciphrang in the afterlife and devour and torture souls forever? It's been a while since I read the books, but I think that it's only Kosoter who's about to become a Ciphrang, others are just very damned. I also think that becoming a Ciphrang in not a matter of how damned you are, but is your soul is strong enough to carve out a piece of reality in the outside for itself, and then compete for the lesser, but still damned, souls pouring from the world. Either way, this doesn't make any sense. Because why would Kosoter's soul be any stronger or more damned than souls of Shaeonanra, Cet'ingira, other Consult members, or every Non-Man that ever lived. Why would they fear the afterlife when they are bound to become mini-gods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.H. Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 42 minutes ago, Kalbear said: So you're basically saying the Inchoroi progenitors got it wrong and simply failed to save themselves locally? No, it isn't possible (through the No-God mechanism) to achieve the closure necessary anywhere but Eärwa. The question I was attempting to answer was, does closing Eärwa mean the whole universe would be closed? I figured no, but it's plausible the answer is actually yes. I think it's simple to reason why the answer would be yes, if it is. I was attempting, because I am stupid, to argue the harder point. 46 minutes ago, Kalbear said: Or that the Inverse Fire sees a projection of what you would be if you were in hell, but not the actuality of you being in hell? Yes, I do think that the Inverse Fire sees things as they would be, not necessarily things as they always will be. But I can't think of a way to prove it one way or the other as of now. Little Kel is proof things can be "locked in" and Sorweel is proof things might not always be which seem to always be, so I imagine it could be either, depending on who-knows-what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 8 hours ago, Let's Get Kraken said: I thought the Head on a Pole was supposed to be Ajokli? The Appendix describes him as having a penis that reaches straight up to the chin. Kinda makes him look like a head on a pole, no? I can't believe this is first time I've heard this. Seems so obvious that the chilling and awesome line is actually about a giant dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 9 hours ago, Gronzag said: It's been a while since I read the books, but I think that it's only Kosoter who's about to become a Ciphrang, others are just very damned. I also think that becoming a Ciphrang in not a matter of how damned you are, but is your soul is strong enough to carve out a piece of reality in the outside for itself, and then compete for the lesser, but still damned, souls pouring from the world. Either way, this doesn't make any sense. Because why would Kosoter's soul be any stronger or more damned souls of Shaeonanra, Cet'ingira, other Consult members, or every Non-Man that ever lived. Why would they fear the afterlife when they are bound to become mini-gods? Good question; probably because they don't believe and have never believed, so their souls can't go into the Outside and remain whole. Kosoter though - he can. As can Cnaiur. 1 hour ago, larrytheimp said: I can't believe this is first time I've heard this. Seems so obvious that the chilling and awesome line is actually about a giant dick. It makes the most sense and is also incredibly stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dora Vee Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 11 minutes ago, Kalbear said: . Kosoter though - he can. Except Kosoter was trying to avoid ending up in damnation. Maybe he didn't know he'd be a "mini-god"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince of Newcastle Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 I cant remember the exact quote, but I thought Mimara seen multiple Ciphrang through the juding eye at one point, definitely Kosotor and maybe some of the Great Ordeal? I may be wrong though. Whilst reading The Unholy Consult I longed for the Slog of Slogs… I also didn’t understand how Esmenet was such a beacon of light… I thought all prostitutes were damned? Also, she killed a lot of people getting Mimara back, she also hired an assassin to kill Maithanet and I think Kellhus (Cant quite remember). I know being damned isn’t related to being a good person so I guess that’s why. My favourite character in the Prince of Nothing was Cnaiur, A DEMON! But in Aspect Emperor I just thought ‘You fucking cunt’ all of the time, which I guess he also was in Prince of Nothing tbh but hey, he gave Conphas a literal explanation. Anyway, was Kellhus genuinely ‘broken’ as a Dunyain? Like, he ‘loved’ Esmenet in his own fucked up way? I need to re-read the entire thing tbh, but I don’t know if I can face it tbh…. It is a great fucking ordeal. The Slog of Slogs boys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutarez Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 I don't think anyone noticed this, but I had a good laugh on my reread. Every time a cock is described, it's curved towards the belly. Can't remember a different desription Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince of Newcastle Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 I may be some sort of freak, but in a state of arousal, thats how I would describe mine. But I would use Chest instead of belly, and phallus instead of cock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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