Jump to content

Bakker LI - The Darkness That Lies Ahead (TUC Spoilers!)


Spring Bass

Recommended Posts

75% done with TTT on my third reread of PON. I'm noticing a lot of foreshadowing for TUC this time around. Kellhus and Akka repeatedly talk about the dangers of Kellhus being chorae'd due to him learning sorcery. Cnaiur constantly focuses on the importance of hatred. Conphas literally calls Kellhus Ajokli. Akka's focus on love being a consequence of ignorance is very similar to Koringhus' own thoughts on the matter. 

These are obvious and not all that thought-provoking; what's more interesting to me is Kellhus' interaction with Aurang/Esmi. Following the conclusion that he cares for Esmi in his own strange way, his lust and ardour for Aurang/Esmi might not exist solely due to Aurang's sexiness powers, but instead owe their existence to pre-existing romantic/sexual feelings for her being encouraged by the sexiness powers.

I feel that this is the book where Bakker hits a great balance between clarity and prose complexity. Kellhus' thoughts on the oversoul stand in stark contrast to the difficulty involved in comprehending the Koringhus chapter.

Speaking of which, it sort of is a shame that Kellhus admits in TGO that much of what he says is pretentious hogwash. I would love for the oversoul theory to be true. It almost feels like a waste of time if it's just Kellhus bullshitting.

Another issue I have is that Esmi's character starts to stagnate here. The constant reflection on the contrast between her life as a prostitute and her life as powerful person simply never stops from this point on! Maybe Bakker should have made her more confident in her prowess in AE to reflect her maturing. 

I also think that Saubon's character was retconned between PON and AE. In PON, he feels like an authentic believer in Kellhus, albeit a self-interested one. In AE, he is far more focused on practicality and "might making right." Granted, Saubon might have forgotten his PON self after twenty years of being Caraskand's king.

Regardless, I'm finally willing to accept that TTT is Bakker's best book. I wonder how TJE and WLW will hold up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, The Prince of Newcastle said:

I also didn’t understand how Esmenet was such a beacon of light… I thought all prostitutes were damned? Also, she killed a lot of people getting Mimara back, she also hired an assassin to kill Maithanet and I think Kellhus (Cant quite remember). I know being damned isn’t related to being a good person so I guess that’s why.

Some say that she might be some sort of avatar for the Goddess of Fate or Gierra. 

One thing to keep in mind is that there's a possibility that being a "beacon of light" or Heaven is a lie. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

More likely she's saved because she's the Grandmother of the God on earth and the mother of the prophet of God.

 

That was mentioned among the theories too, but I still think that there's a strong possibility that being "saved" is not what people think it means. There is a reason why the Non men wanted to circumvent the whole thing entirely. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's a pride thing for the Nonmen.   They sought Oblivion because they didn't want to be subservient to capricious Gods - or to risk their salvation on that capricious attitude; they also thought that Oblivion was easily attained.  The Inverse Fire was a shock to the Nonmen that discovered it.   Oblivion is attainable, but by so few that it's not a sensible afterlife goal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Kalbear said:

More likely she's saved because she's the Grandmother of the God on earth and the mother of the prophet of God.

 

No. Akka the Younger is not Kellhus. Just a tool for Akka's character development in TNG. Bet ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, redeagl said:

No. Akka the Younger is not Kellhus. Just a tool for Akka's character development in TNG. Bet ?

Yea, that's what I'm thinking too. The most obvious would be a new character with Qirri powers thanks to Cleric and Cijara'Cinmoi and being the child of two "Few". A reincarnation of someone would be sweet, but it would also be wishful thinking on my part. :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Dora Vee said:

That was mentioned among the theories too, but I still think that there's a strong possibility that being "saved" is not what people think it means. There is a reason why the Non men wanted to circumvent the whole thing entirely. 

"I've heard the sighs of the saved and the screams of the damned and I swear to you, brother, they sound the same!" - anonymousandtotallynotKellhus

But apparently no angels? I guess no one is intensely good enough to turn into an angel as someone like Cnaiur is intensely violent enough to turn into a ciphrang.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, larrytheimp said:

Just throwing it out there, but the Dunsult was totally banging Aurang and vice versa all the time, amirite?

I think the Dunyain and Aurang are all dommes, so they're destined for sexual frustration :wacko:. Aurang did seem like he was capable of topping from the bottom when he possessed Esmi, though...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

I don't think he's saying the baby is Kelhus, just that it had a holy level over 9000.

That's right. I don't think the baby has any thing to do with Kellhus. And I think it'll be a lot more than character development, otherwise mimara is even more incredibly pointless. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Callan S. said:

"I've heard the sighs of the saved and the screams of the damned and I swear to you, brother, they sound the same!" - anonymousandtotallynotKellhus

But apparently no angels? I guess no one is intensely good enough to turn into an angel as someone like Cnaiur is intensely violent enough to turn into a ciphrang.

There was talk about angelic ciphrang, so it might be possible for angels to exist. We just haven't seen them. Unless, Esmenet is one? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Dora Vee said:

There was talk about angelic ciphrang, so it might be possible for angels to exist. We just haven't seen them. Unless, Esmenet is one? 

They're the same as the demonic "Sons"/ciphrang, just coming at it from a different soul-feasting angle. I think the book describes it as the "moaning broth of the Countless", with "moaning" meaning constant pleasure (the "sighs" in the heavens). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Finished TTT again. Really loved it; Conphas and Cnaiur's respective breakdowns at Joktha are great. I'm so damn curious about who talked to Kellhus on the Circumfix. Bakker says "Ajokli seems a safe supposition" in the AMA. Have a feeling this is a lie. Furthermore, how exactly would Ajokli know to quote the No-God if he's blind to him? This can't be true!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, The Prince of Newcastle said:

Does anyone else think Kellhus has a contingency plan for being salted?

I do hope maybe his soul and Cnaiur's soul meet in some capacity.

Yea, I certainly do. Kellhus may be fallible, at time, but I'd be shocked if he DIDN'T have one. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, The Prince of Newcastle said:

Does anyone else think Kellhus has a contingency plan for being salted?

I do hope maybe his soul and Cnaiur's soul meet in some capacity.

Given the fact that being choraed is almost the only physical threat to him, yes he certainly has, involving the daimos, soul swapping, the decapitants etc. Bakker's extra textual comments lean against, however, as someone previously stated, Bakker is something of a troll. In a good way...?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Valandil said:

Given the fact that being choraed is almost the only physical threat to him, yes he certainly has, involving the daimos, soul swapping, the decapitants etc. Bakker's extra textual comments lean against, however, as someone previously stated, Bakker is something of a troll. In a good way...?

I don't think "dead but not done" is a troll comment though, it's relatively clear without being an outright give-away.  Maybe just to me though.

Many of us figured that Moe the Elder would have been wise to have some contingency plans in place, but lo and behold, he didn't.  So, do we think Kellhus fell into the same trap?  Or did he actually learn?  We know Kellhus can be mistaken, but we also know he is more than his father ever was.  So, we'll just have to wait and see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bakker commented that Kellhus was so focused on planning the assault on Golgotterath that he failed to notice anything wrong with Kelmomas and that he failed because he was just as blind to his darknesses. As H said, a lot of people thought there was no way Moe didn't foresee that Kellhus would kill him and must have planned something.

My guess is that whatever happened to Kellhus after he died was unintended by him... Possibly something that the Consult did. Maybe they have his soul trapped somewhere now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...