Jump to content

Bakker LI - The Darkness That Lies Ahead (TUC Spoilers!)


Spring Bass

Recommended Posts

I'd read Wet For Skuthula tbh.

Who did Serwe think she was calling him a virgin? He is the God of Cunny and Mysogony.

I would also read a book about Crabicus becoming a fantastic bard.

I do hope TNG gets released. The end of TUC was very dissapointing. I always thought 'wouldnt it be good if Sauron/The Despiser etc actually won' and it turns out that no, it wouldnt. It kind of spoils the previous 4000 pages imo.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/14/2017 at 10:07 PM, larrytheimp said:

 In an Arthurian twist, he will discover an ancient Cunuroi artifact, the ultimate lute.  In the bowels of a wrecked mansion, he will find the instrument, and will wrest it, The Absolute, from the stone and use it to destroy the No-God (who would be his great uncle?).  

I'm imagining the whole thing will climax in an epic lute battle between Crabicus and the No-God, where Crabicus will be forced to play the best song in the world in order to win. TNG won't be that song, it'll be a tribute to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, matt b said:

I'm imagining the whole thing will climax in an epic lute battle between Crabicus and the No-God, where Crabicus will be forced to play the best song in the world in order to win. TNG won't be that song, it'll be a tribute to it.

Love it!

When the No God finished, Crabicus said,
"Well you're pretty good old son
But sit down in that chair right there
And let me show you how it's done!"

Fire in Ishual, run, boys, run
The No God's in the house of the setting sun
Chicken in the bread pan a picking out dough,
Granny does your sranc bite, "No, child, no"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, The Prince of Newcastle said:

I'd read Wet For Skuthula tbh.

Who did Serwe think she was calling him a virgin? He is the God of Cunny and Mysogony.

I would also read a book about Crabicus becoming a fantastic bard.

I do hope TNG gets released. The end of TUC was very dissapointing. I always thought 'wouldnt it be good if Sauron/The Despiser etc actually won' and it turns out that no, it wouldnt. It kind of spoils the previous 4000 pages imo.

 

For some reason I found the end strangely affirming.

I think I'm sick to death of fiction with threats but everything will turn out okay - it's a psychological manipulation. Over and over in media all over the place.

But here a book made the fear of the ordeal being destroyed a genuine, proper fear to have had. It validated the fear. To fear for the ordeals survival was to have felt fear over a genuine threat, not just some 'make you scared but it'll be alright' bullshit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Callan S. said:

For some reason I found the end strangely affirming.

I think I'm sick to death of fiction with threats but everything will turn out okay - it's a psychological manipulation. Over and over in media all over the place.

But here a book made the fear of the ordeal being destroyed a genuine, proper fear to have had. It validated the fear. To fear for the ordeals survival was to have felt fear over a genuine threat, not just some 'make you scared but it'll be alright' bullshit.

Yeah I get that, but to me it just made the whole thing seem pointless in hindsight. 

Bad guys winning can be done, and it can be done well, but I didnt think 'And then everyone died' was a particulalry satifying ending. I dunno, but 4 books of great ordealing, a lot of which was a great ordeal to read in fairness (The slaughter of the Sranc went on and on and on), only to get there, and then everyone died, the main character essentially died off screen... I dunno

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think I might be influenced by roleplaying which (when it's good) ends up more like a wildlife documentary. Sometimes in the wildlife documentary, the followed animal dies. I remember being a child and this doco about pelican babies and the lake dried up and there was this helicopter shot of this massive group of huddling black pelican baby birds in the middle of the desert and drying waters, left behind by their parents en mass because otherwise the parents would die as well. Thousands of baby birds left to die by their parents. Made me so sad...horrified me.

Anyway, it might bias me to read the books as a documentary. Good, bad, we saw the whole story.

But if it is a waste, why is it a waste? What does it waste?

Bakker tends to like to include the reader in the performance. It raises a good question for ones inner self - what were you looking for? Some sort of sign of how to navigate such dire situations? It's understandable as that makes sense in terms of our nature. But that does raise questions about media in general - is media in general giving us bullshit solutions to dire situations? We'll just 'believe in ourselves' and grit our teeth and that'll get us through?

I mean, it's funny how in lord of the rings Frodo actually decided to keep the ring in the end. Only a hapstance saw the ring destroyed. It's kind of a morbid ending, really.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I love the ending of LOTR, Frodo succumbs etc. The fact it is destroyed anyway doesnt matter to me, Frodo is broken.

I also loved the ending of The First Law, especially Jezel.

In terms of it being a waste, I feel that a lot of characters have been on a journey, but a lot of those journeys were made to feel hollow I guess?! I cant put my finger on it tbh.

For example, I am unsure what exactly Achamian did on the whole journey. He got the daughter of the woman he loved pregnant, behaved pretty selfishly in the 'woe is me' Acha way and I guess finally, at the death, he did something heroic. But he didnt learn anything new about Kellhus as far as I remember, even when visiting Ishual.

The Judging Eye never really amounted to much imo. The helmet thing Sorweel wore, however cool, never seemed to play much part beyond set dressing.

This isnt to say that I didnt enjoy the book, as I did, I just thought the ending (And the massive cannibal/rape fest) dissapointing.

I loved the the Dunyain had fully taken over the Consult, even if it kind of made them appear as incompetent etc.

I actually really appreciate your 'baby birds left to die' story, and it has honestly made me re-consider my opinion (Perhaps this is the first time this has ever happened to anyone on the internet!?). 

I dont know how I would have prefered it all to end if I am honest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, The Prince of Newcastle said:

For example, I am unsure what exactly Achamian did on the whole journey. He got the daughter of the woman he loved pregnant, behaved pretty selfishly in the 'woe is me' Acha way and I guess finally, at the death, he did something heroic. But he didnt learn anything new about Kellhus as far as I remember, even when visiting Ishual.

The Judging Eye never really amounted to much imo. 

I will say that I agree that I was let down.  I think the real crime was that everything was set for an epic confrontation.  That scene where Akka looks up to the broken body of Proyas and says "judgement is coming" felt pregnant with confrontation.  Then there is the discovery that Kellhus has left him alive for some reason.  And what do we get?  The equivalent of two dudes meeting in the waiting room of the nursery at the hospital and going their separate ways.  Then Proyas is left alive only to be killed for no reason after that?  There seemed to be so much set up only to have nothing come of it even within this book to say nothing of the previous six.

Quote

The helmet thing Sorweel wore, however cool, never seemed to play much part beyond set dressing.

It did make him sort of want to be raped by Zsoronga?  In all seriousness, I think it was a unique narrative device.  It gave us perspective and exposition on the mansion without requiring the traditional tour guide info dump.

Quote

I loved the the Dunyain had fully taken over the Consult, even if it kind of made them appear as incompetent etc.

It was a fantastic twist.  One that honestly we all should have seen coming a mile away, but somehow I don't recall anyone in 50 threads worth of 20 page discussions every suggesting that the Dunyain had moved on from Ishual.  Even when the destruction of the Thousand Halls was revealed, I don't remember anyone suggesting that any of the Dunyain had been captured or even followed the logical choice and deserted. 

Quote

This isnt to say that I didnt enjoy the book, as I did, I just thought the ending (And the massive cannibal/rape fest) disappointing.

Same.  I enjoyed it immensely.  I even enjoyed the ending until I read Bakker's answers in the AMA.  My biggest complaint was the same as above, so much set up for so little purpose.  The slaughter at the gates by the dragon.  They all felt trapped.  A chapter even ended "Father faces the consult... alone" with ominous portent.  There was a pretty epic fight between super girl and the centipede dragon with an odd fetish.  But what was the point?  Had she not gone in there, would the story have changed?  Why include the scene other than for the extra textual reasons?  Frustrating. 

3 hours ago, unJon said:

He isn't dead. 

What is dead may never die!!!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I strongly agree that this book needed a shitton more editing and time in the oven, but it was spelled out in big unmistakable neon block letters that the Inchoroi were engineered shock troopers on the ship and that both the actual crew and the AI have been dead since Arkfall, with Sil being the only one among them who kinda-sorta understood the tech enough to get things working again. They've been trying for centuries to reboot their AI core by shoving humans into it, and following the extermination of everyone except A&A they had zero ability to use their technology at all. It's like asking why two shipwrecked marines, one reduced to a drooling idiot, can't just fix up some nukes and fire them off. :shrug:

 

This is from a discussion on Something Awful, what do you guys think of it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Rhom said:

ame.  I enjoyed it immensely.  I even enjoyed the ending until I read Bakker's answers in the AMA.  My biggest complaint was the same as above, so much set up for so little purpose.  The slaughter at the gates by the dragon.  They all felt trapped.  A chapter even ended "Father faces the consult... alone" with ominous portent.  There was a pretty epic fight between super girl and the centipede dragon with an odd fetish.  But what was the point?  Had she not gone in there, would the story have changed?  Why include the scene other than for the extra textual reasons?  Frustrating.

Perhaps to illustrate that Kellhus' plan (i.e. The Thousandfold Thought) figured that they could breech the gate of Golgotterath and storm the Ark itself, meaning Kellhus would face whatever it was in the Golden Room with some kind of backup?  In this case, it marks two failures, I'd think. That of Kellhus to wait and of the Ordeal to best the dragon in a timely manner.

Serwa tries to be a hero, but ultimately all her actions and sacrifices are meaningless in the face of what draws Kellhus in.  Whether that is partly Kellhus' overconfidence, Ajokli's influence or some confluence between those is certainly a matter for interpretation, but the result is clear.  Kellhus screws the pooch and all the heroism in Eärwa isn't going to make a damn bit of difference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, odium said:

This is from a discussion on Something Awful, what do you guys think of it?

The possibility of Aurax/Aurang being janitors in the bowels of the ship prior to arkfall was discussed here with some vigor.  I don't know that I would say it was obvious in neon letters that they were trying to accomplish a reboot of Ark or anything of the sort.  So I'd say I agree with the general premise of the quote, but not the specifics.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What if the No-God was originally the AI of the ship and that's what the Consult have been trying to revive by raising the No-God? Of course the original one would not have an identity crisis as it's not made from shoving a human into something in the ship. Didn't Iain Banks have an AI that was asking "who am I?" after some parts of it shut off?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think the No-God is the original AI.  The DunSult/DunShae say it's a prosthesis of Ark.    What does a prosthesis do?  It replaces a missing limb, not a brain.

4 hours ago, odium said:

This is from a discussion on Something Awful, what do you guys think of it?

Like Rhom said, the Aurang and Aurax being janitors theory existed, but Bakker in fact responded to that one prior to TUC and said in fact the opposite was true (Aurang and Aurax were high-ranked).  The Ark was automated, there was no 'real crew' as far as the text indicates.  There might've been other varieties of Inchoroi, though.  The Insertant that Bakker implies used to go into the No-God might've been some along those lines.

In fact, maybe Ark itself was a Bio-Computer rather than vacuum tubes and silicon wafers? Might be there was thousands of Insertants just plugged into the Ark's brain, Matrix-style (except they functioned as processors rather than batteries).  But even then the Insertants would've been components not minds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speaking of people being shoved into the No God... I don’t think I’ve seen anyone ask this question.

Lil Kel is captured by a skin spy and then presumably brought to the Golden Room where he major screws up Ajokli’s plan.  After Kellhus pulls his best impression of Lot’s Wife; they stick him in the sarcophagus.

If Lil Kel was brought to the Golden Room before AK, why didn’t they go ahead and shove him in the sarcophagus before Kellhus ever got there????

The way I remember reading it, the scene felt like the DunSult just sort of thought, “Well... look here... we’ve got another Anasurimbor.  Let’s use him.”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Well, we killed the other Anas - let's shove this kid through and hope for the best!"

I don't think they know what they were doing, despite being super competent. And since Kellhus doesn't have two souls, I'm guessing he wouldn't work anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...