Bakker LI - The Darkness That Lies Ahead (TUC Spoilers!)

[Callan S.]

6 hours ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

A largely passionless Dunyain becoming the God of Hate doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Also kind of goes against the theme of Dunyain being spiritually weak.

Well, Ajokli is the god of thievery and deception, so it's already off that target. Maybe he fancies himself a prince of hate, but he's actually quite weak in that regard? Goes with the big wang - to make up for the tiny spiritual pee pee.

[Hello World]

I think Kellhus did become Ajokli in the golden room, the two merged together for a short while until Kelmomas came in. I don't know what happened after. 

[Dora Vee]

Kellhus did try to have more children with concubines, but many died in childbirth and the others produced non-viable babies. Even Esmenet had one non-viable children.

[Callan S.]

On 10/29/2017 at 10:02 PM, Lutarez said:

There is a scene when he talks to Esmenet on the wall, and she almost falls. His heart skips a beat and he becomes worried. Then he says something like "whence does this darkness come" ? now here is the crucial point! He is not curious about this, he is musing about it. He has accepted that he has a weakness so he's kinda saying "well how the heck did that happen?!" . Even before he probably made the decision to include Esmenet in the thousandfold thought. She becomes his "darkness", her role is to satisfy his only weakness, a need for affection ? love ? companionship ? I don't think even he knows (hence darkness). 

Yeah, but mentioning some kind of love interest between them seems to trigger folk here.

I think it's a question of some sort of point where romance becomes mere utility. It's like you're suggesting Esme is a kind of spiritual fleshlight in the end, to be picked up for that 1% coolness bonus, as much as a world of warcraft player optimises their gear collections stat benefits.

And also he ditches the ordeal (like he did Leweth) because he knows to make the final stretch they have to go batshit insane - and if he stayed with them, that would be blamed on him at least partially. He needs Proyas as a scapegoat for that.

On 10/29/2017 at 10:02 PM, Lutarez said:

As an emperor and with his insane stamina he could have sex with 3 woman each day.

I love how this number is both an incredibly large number and frankly a modest number at the same time. Three!

Who knows, maybe like 'Boys from Brazil' he had a back up project. The thing is children, even with a fraction of Dunyain intellect, need to be managed. Indeed, perhaps they would exceed his capacity to predict the future and be his undoing? That's the problem with having a lot of Dunyain children.

[Lutarez]

The problem with writing these super smart characters are the hundreds,thousands of people who will put them under a microscope. Even a bigger problem with someone like Kellhus, where the shortest path is actually his whole philosophy. 

 

The child thing for example. It doesn't make sense. The only explanation would be is that love is needed for healthy children. However his father never had that and was able to have a child. So Kellhus should try and make as many children as he can properly manage/train, at least a few dozen, if not more (relative healthy ones, or at least useful). Another advantage to this would be the fact that they would train each other and keep an eye on each other. In my view at least, that is the shortest path. 

 

With Esmenet that problem is that Bakker is too vague. A few sentences here and there and we would understand. Maybe that's the point, Kellhus doesn't get it so we won't either ??

 

Anyway, It is really hard to know if it's something profound or if it's something Bakker never thought of...the AMA showed us that.

[Callan S.]

2 hours ago, Lutarez said:

The child thing for example. It doesn't make sense. The only explanation would be is that love is needed for healthy children. However his father never had that and was able to have a child. So Kellhus should try and make as many children as he can properly manage/train, at least a few dozen, if not more (relative healthy ones, or at least useful). Another advantage to this would be the fact that they would train each other and keep an eye on each other. In my view at least, that is the shortest path. 

You seem to be expecting loyalty from the children to Kellhus? Loyalty for a father who killed his own father?

2 hours ago, Lutarez said:

With Esmenet that problem is that Bakker is too vague. A few sentences here and there and we would understand. Maybe that's the point, Kellhus doesn't get it so we won't either ??

He had a previous version of TDTCB that he submitted but was rejected for being too mysterious. He then rewrote that book and resubmitted and that's what we got, but I suspect he falls back to habits of being too mysterious at times in all the books (Serwe's heart comes to mind) - there's a fine line where absence is a creative spark for the reader, driving the readers imagination to fill that absence in Vs just being nothing and frustrating. Granted that line varies for readers, but there is some kind of average to shoot for and sometimes I think maybe it's been missed.