Summer Bass

Bakker LI - The Darkness That Lies Ahead (TUC Spoilers!)

280 posts in this topic

That doesn't mean they are being killed. To me it simply suggests that they have a general rule against forming personal attachments to anyone outside of Mandate. They also strictly forbid defections, and yet they let Inrau live for years despite the fact he took off with Gnossis.

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Hmm maybe Callan is on to something, maybe the reason Esme is holy is cause she has cooties. LIke midoclorians.

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23 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

I don't even know what the fuck you are talking about.

I know

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12 hours ago, Consigliere said:

 

 

It's in there. The first mention is during the conversation between Akka and Geshrunni:

 

And it is mentioned again when the thing called Sarcellus is speaking with Esmi.

 

Thanks! And those weren't even the references I was thinking of, so there are more references in there than I remembered! I'm sure there's another mention of the Mandates rules on the matter somewhere else.

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13 hours ago, Gronzag said:

To me it simply suggests that they have a general rule against forming personal attachments to anyone outside of Mandate.

Plus, that wouldn't necessary stop Akka from helping her out financially - there's nothing there suggesting that he either offered it, or she asked for it. Paying off "sources" is likely part of what a Mandate Schoolmen does in their hunt for the Consult's influence. 

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1 hour ago, Summer Bass said:

Plus, that wouldn't necessary stop Akka from helping her out financially - there's nothing there suggesting that he either offered it, or she asked for it. Paying off "sources" is likely part of what a Mandate Schoolmen does in their hunt for the Consult's influence. 

I'd love to see an Atrocity Tale where it's just a bum mandate schoolman using his funds that are supposedly being used to develop assets for gambling, excessively nice undergarments, questionable gofundmes, etc.  Although with the brainwashing via the Seswatha dreams maybe they don't even have to worry about someone not spending money in the right places, they just do what they're compelled to do. 

 

Like he could be only guy that gets Seswatha mundane dreams and none of the dreams of great pitch and moment.

"WTF, all Seswatha DOES is shit...."

Edited by larrytheimp

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And on the Seswatha dreams - Akka's dreams are different, but apparently everyone has various differences in dreams at certain times. Akka talks about that at the beginning of TJE. After he becomes a wizard his dreams are very different than anyone else's - but before that, small differences are typical and expected, with a lot of debate about what it means and why. 

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14 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

d love to see an Atrocity Tale where it's just a bum mandate scho

I just remembered that I never finished the last Atrocity Tale, the Carathayan, even though I had the book soon after release. I think it was a combination of not finding it interesting and thinking that it was going to be another Knife of Many Hands.

Come to think of it, I hardly remember anything being said about this Atrocity Tale here...

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6 minutes ago, Hello World said:

I just remembered that I never finished the last Atrocity Tale, the Carathayan, even though I had the book soon after release. I think it was a combination of not finding it interesting and thinking that it was going to be another Knife of Many Hands.

Come to think of it, I hardly remember anything being said about this Atrocity Tale here...

Never heard of it. Is it the one in that recent collection?

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38 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

And on the Seswatha dreams - Akka's dreams are different, but apparently everyone has various differences in dreams at certain times. Akka talks about that at the beginning of TJE. After he becomes a wizard his dreams are very different than anyone else's - but before that, small differences are typical and expected, with a lot of debate about what it means and why. 

Exactly right. But none of the Mundane. This is what got him to pay attention. "Seswatha never shits". The Mandate has been around for centuries and have always dreamed the dreams and that becomes a catchphrase. Very telling, that all they dream is about the atrocities of the 1st apocalypse, with minor differences, which Akka notes. But, in the tower scene with Mimara, she asks if anything like this has been experienced before, he says no, twice. Its totally unique to Akka, imo.

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See, this why I think his dreams began changing from the beginning, slowly. That 1st dream with Esme and he note his face in the mirror and note S. Is telling, Seswatha was going to shave, mundane. But, he took it as an anomaly. 

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2 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Exactly right. But none of the Mundane. This is what got him to pay attention. "Seswatha never shits". The Mandate has been around for centuries and have always dreamed the dreams and that becomes a catchphrase. Very telling, that all they dream is about the atrocities of the 1st apocalypse, with minor differences, which Akka notes. But, in the tower scene with Mimara, she asks if anything like this has been experienced before, he says no, twice. Its totally unique to Akka, imo.

Right - but you were implying that the earlier differences he experiences are unique to Akka, and they are not. Only the dreams since TJE are new and special. 

Which we already knew. 

What we don't know is if they are accurate, what (if anything) is sending them, and why it matters. So far it hasn't mattered at all save to get Akka to Sauglish, which ended up not really mattering one bit, at least so far.

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Just now, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

See, this why I think his dreams began changing from the beginning, slowly. That 1st dream with Esme and he note his face in the mirror and note S. Is telling, Seswatha was going to shave, mundane. But, he took it as an anomaly. 

He took it as an anomaly, but not one particularly special, and later notes how there are small differences here and there just like that.

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Just now, Kalbear said:

Right - but you were implying that the earlier differences he experiences are unique to Akka, and they are not. Only the dreams since TJE are new and special. 

Which we already knew. 

What we don't know is if they are accurate, what (if anything) is sending them, and why it matters. So far it hasn't mattered at all save to get Akka to Sauglish, which ended up not really mattering one bit, at least so far.

No, we know that his dreams of Nayu being taken to Shaw and turned into a toothless wretch and sent in a line to the Golden Room, eventually under the IF and to the carapace, is confirmed. Another telling observation I made, is that the toothless wretch is Nayu 100%. Why? When he looks at the IF, he experienced no horror whatsoever in his dialogue. What would the NG see upon looking at the IF? Well, nothing. He is blind to the Gods.

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3 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

He took it as an anomaly, but not one particularly special, and later notes how there are small differences here and there just like that.

Right. I said that. I understand, it's just that if anytime the dreams would change for one of the Mandati it would be now(during the books). After all, this is Seswatha's mission. And, in some round about way, those dreams saved Akka, Mimara and Esme. He didn't fight, the dreams kept him away from the Ordeal and he saved those 3 along with some others at the end of TUC. Maybe Seswatha's way of having a backup plan if Kellhus's Ordeal failed. And still have Akka as a conduit to the 2nd apocalypse.

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2 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

No, we know that his dreams of Nayu being taken to Shaw and turned into a toothless wretch and sent in a line to the Golden Room, eventually under the IF and to the carapace, is confirmed.

We don't. We know Nau-Cayuti went in. We don't know that he was tortured. We don't know what circumstances were used. We don't know any of it. If Bakker wanted to change it, he could, and it wouldn't be that bad. 

We also don't know if Seswatha slept with Celmomas's wife. 

Now, the implication is that these things are all accurate, but we all know what implications mean with Bakker, don't we? :P

2 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Another telling observation I made, is that the toothless wretch is Nayu 100%. Why? When he looks at the IF, he experienced no horror whatsoever in his dialogue. What would the NG see upon looking at the IF? Well, nothing. He is blind to the Gods.

Being blind to the gods doesn't change at all what the inverse fire would see. The gods don't determine your damnation. 

I don't remember though - what is the PoV perspective for Nau-Cayuti? Is it first-person?

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So if Nayu could still be damned, but the gods are blind to him, does that mean that he's basically auto-aimed for oblivion upon death (assuming he doesn't get fed into the No-God Machine)? Nobody is going to grab him in the Outside. 

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