Lady bonehead

Is Gilly more important than we think?

18 posts in this topic

Haven't seen this discussed before, but supposing that some of the WW are Craster's sons, this means that Gilly is their sister, and her baby is their brother twice over.  Not sure how this would play out but we know that siblings are important in the story. At minimum it would mean that Jon's baby swap is ironic, since in all likelihood Mance's son will turn out not to be important at all.

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3 hours ago, Lady bonehead said:

Haven't seen this discussed before, but supposing that some of the WW are Craster's sons, this means that Gilly is their sister, and her baby is their brother twice over.  Not sure how this would play out but we know that siblings are important in the story. At minimum it would mean that Jon's baby swap is ironic, since in all likelihood Mance's son will turn out not to be important at all.

Interesting idea. 

The baby swap would also be ironic if the Others realize the baby at the wall is actually one of Craster's (if this means anything). He could have been in Oldtown. 

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6 hours ago, Lady bonehead said:

Haven't seen this discussed before, but supposing that some of the WW are Craster's sons, this means that Gilly is their sister, and her baby is their brother twice over.  Not sure how this would play out but we know that siblings are important in the story. At minimum it would mean that Jon's baby swap is ironic, since in all likelihood Mance's son will turn out not to be important at all.

Her baby may well be their brother three or more times over…

But anyway, I think Craster's last son may turn out to be important. The Others may have a use for him. Or maybe Mel will have a use for him against the Others (which would make Jon's baby swap ironic in the most horrific way possible). Or maybe the story will end with the Others soundly defeated and everyone lives happily ever after, but an epilogue implies that he's going to become the next Night's King and try to bring the Others back, because the struggle never ends.

He's not a Chekhov's baby or anything, but he does seem significant enough that he may be there for more than just symbolism (and jumpstarting Sam's happy family).

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I think Gilly may be the most underrated character in the series.  And I think this may be intentional.   To the best of my recollection the only women in Craster's house who got away died.  The rest were broodmares unto the 3rd generation.   Gilly got out.   I think as much of that had to do with her genuine love for her unborn child as it was meeting Sam, the tenderhearted hero.   I thought it remarkable that she was permitted to return to Castle Black after leaving not to mention the many adventures she had there.  She's befriended a Targaryan, sons of noble men and a princess!  Gilly is very brave in the simple way Sam is.  Her willingness to continue to care for Mance's baby when she wants her own is heart wrenching.    Her adamant love for Sam.   Gilly's great and she remains alive, maybe separated from Sam in the tale to come and won't that be interesting to read.  Jon's good intentions left Gilly's boy in a most precarious situation.   I'm not sure if it is Mance's baby Val calls "Monster" or if he's already gone when she returns from finding Tormund.  If this is Gilly's boy, there are no doubt clues in the pet name.    Yes, I think both boys are probably important near or after the end of the story at the Wall.   I'm trusting clever Val to protect Gilly's boy while Jon is indisposed.   But what could happen to Gilly and Mance's boy on that ship with Marwyn probably won't be good for either of them.   

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3 hours ago, falcotron said:

There's also a story that they eat human children. And for all we know they could be using the kids' blood for drugs like Liquid Sky or Torchwood.

Yes, the Old Nan story. 

Not to get too far off topic, but in the Prologue the Others each blood their swords on Waymar, as if it were some ritual. Hard to speculate what it would be exactly but it seems like a sort of brutal communion. Could be they need the blood for survival or development.

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1 hour ago, cgrav said:

Yes, the Old Nan story. 

Not to get too far off topic, but in the Prologue the Others each blood their swords on Waymar, as if it were some ritual. Hard to speculate what it would be exactly but it seems like a sort of brutal communion. Could be they need the blood for survival or development.

But Waymar slashed at the trees first. Waymar made the first call to battle. Then Waymar called to the "gods".  Waymar started the fight and the Others answered and first inspected Waymar before determining he was not "the one" they were looking for. 

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On 9/23/2017 at 10:18 AM, Lady bonehead said:

Haven't seen this discussed before, but supposing that some of the WW are Craster's sons, this means that Gilly is their sister, and her baby is their brother twice over.  Not sure how this would play out but we know that siblings are important in the story. At minimum it would mean that Jon's baby swap is ironic, since in all likelihood Mance's son will turn out not to be important at all.

Jon's baby swap might actually turn out to be a bad idea.  Craster is probably a distant Stark relative.  His son at the Wall has the purest of all Stark blood.  If some of the White Walkers are Craster's boys then they too have Stark blood.  The Night's King was a Stark and he could have passed the Stark blood down to his offsprings with the Night's Queen.  

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On 23/09/2017 at 3:18 PM, Lady bonehead said:

Haven't seen this discussed before, but supposing that some of the WW are Craster's sons, this means that Gilly is their sister, and her baby is their brother twice over.  

Great subject for a topic!

I always took it that the Others would be deeply distraught about the events of the mutiny, what with Craster and the rest of the Walker's "family" butchered.

With their "sister" far away in Oldtown, only young "Monster" remains in the proximity of the Wall. Now, from a resource standpoint the Others clearly have reason to be pissed - the Keep seems to have been like a sort of battery farm for the continuation of the Other's species, losing it must have seriously messed with their plans. The "cold shadows" might even feel offended from an honor/family standpoint - who's to say they don't have such aspects to their culture?

If the Others do eventually come through the Wall, what's the chance they send a force to hunt down their lost kin?

On 23/09/2017 at 11:29 PM, Curled Finger said:

Jon's good intentions left Gilly's boy in a most precarious situation.   I'm not sure if it is Mance's baby Val calls "Monster" or if he's already gone when she returns from finding Tormund.  If this is Gilly's boy, there are no doubt clues in the pet name.    Yes, I think both boys are probably important near or after the end of the story at the Wall.   I'm trusting clever Val to protect Gilly's boy while Jon is indisposed.   But what could happen to Gilly and Mance's boy on that ship with Marwyn probably won't be good for either of them.   

Always good to hear from you my friend. I too feel that Craster's last son has been given a pretty ominous name, regardless of who the handle was first bestowed upon. 

Do you think Gilly is on her way to Mereen?

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4 hours ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

Great subject for a topic!

I always took it that the Others would be deeply distraught about the events of the mutiny, what with Craster and the rest of the Walker's "family" butchered.

With their "sister" far away in Oldtown, only young "Monster" remains in the proximity of the Wall. Now, from a resource standpoint the Others clearly have reason to be pissed - the Keep seems to have been like a sort of battery farm for the continuation of the Other's species, losing it must have seriously messed with their plans. The "cold shadows" might even feel offended from an honor/family standpoint - who's to say they don't have such aspects to their culture?

If the Others do eventually come through the Wall, what's the chance they send a force to hunt down their lost kin?

Always good to hear from you my friend. I too feel that Craster's last son has been given a pretty ominous name, regardless of who the handle was first bestowed upon. 

Do you think Gilly is on her way to Mereen?

It's always good to see you keeping things honest around this joint, Leo!    Well, yah, I do think Gilly's off to Mereen, but that's jumping the gun because we don't know if Marwyn was able to get the Cinnamon Wind to give him a ride.   What Gilly and Mance's baby could actually do along the way is a mystery.   What they could do when they get there is possibly keep a resurrected Aemon in line?   Who knows?   All I know is Gilly, fierce and humble little Wildling, is crossing paths with an awful lot of movers and shakers in this story, along with her charge.    I wouldn't mind at all if Gilly got some great adventures and a stake in the future wars.   As she learns and gains experience she really could attain a place in her many social wheels to give a world voice to the Wildlings and the far north.     She really is the odd man out among most people.   What I enjoy about Gilly is her wonder at the world.    She's in awe of Sam's bravery.  She's in awe of things she's never seen.    Not afraid, just amazed.    She's a badass.   

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10 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Jon's baby swap might actually turn out to be a bad idea.  Craster is probably a distant Stark relative.

Sure, but half the continent are distant Stark relatives. Why would it matter that Craster's son, Jon, and Night's King all share an ancestor 8000 years ago, along with most of the rest of Westeros?

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So the red woman burns Craster's son expecting to hatch a fire dragon but instead she gets an ice dragon.  What a sick joke to happen.  Im interested to see what happens when a pure blooded Stark gets toasted.  Blood magic will happen for sure. 

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4 hours ago, Only 89 selfies today said:

So the red woman burns Craster's son expecting to hatch a fire dragon but instead she gets an ice dragon.  What a sick joke to happen.  Im interested to see what happens when a pure blooded Stark gets toasted.  Blood magic will happen for sure. 

Already happened with Ned's father

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On 9/23/2017 at 7:18 AM, Lady bonehead said:

Haven't seen this discussed before, but supposing that some of the WW are Craster's sons, this means that Gilly is their sister, and her baby is their brother twice over.  Not sure how this would play out but we know that siblings are important in the story. At minimum it would mean that Jon's baby swap is ironic, since in all likelihood Mance's son will turn out not to be important at all.

Well I think GRRM telling us (twice from two different characters) that Craster has "Black Blood" is meant as a clue that he's a descendant of Lord Commander Hoare, and I also think that the Stark kids have Hoare blood through their Whent maternal grandmother. I think the blood of House Hoare will be important soon; Harrenhal is the reason magic was suppressed for so many years, but it was only able to do that when there was a Hoare ancestor in residence. I think it's very relevant that every major player in the mythic game (the game of... bones? I dunno lol) now has in their possession someone with Hoare ancestry:

  • The Children of the Forest have Bran
  • The Faceless Men have Arya
  • Littlefinger has Sansa (yes, I think he plays in the mythic game, or at least knows more about the mythic game than he lets on)
  • The Citadel has Gilly
  • Melisandre has Gilly's baby
  • Euron was noted as having a Hoare ancestor among his supporters

Apart from setting up in Harrenhal and reestablishing the magic suppression effect (this seems to be Littlefinger's plan) I'm not sure why else the Black Blood might be important. I speculated a while ago that making Others out of people with the Black Blood (especially if you concentrate those genes via inbreeding) is the reason they're becoming aggressive: the Black Blood allows Craster's sons to resist whatever magic would normally keep them under control. I've also speculated that the Seastone Chair is a mini-Harrenhal, creating a more localized magic suppression effect which just covers the Iron Islands.

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Posted (edited)

On 30/09/2017 at 3:02 AM, Curled Finger said:

It's always good to see you keeping things honest around this joint, Leo!    Well, yah, I do think Gilly's off to Mereen, but that's jumping the gun because we don't know if Marwyn was able to get the Cinnamon Wind to give him a ride.   What Gilly and Mance's baby could actually do along the way is a mystery.   What they could do when they get there is possibly keep a resurrected Aemon in line?   Who knows?   All I know is Gilly, fierce and humble little Wildling, is crossing paths with an awful lot of movers and shakers in this story, along with her charge.    I wouldn't mind at all if Gilly got some great adventures and a stake in the future wars.   As she learns and gains experience she really could attain a place in her many social wheels to give a world voice to the Wildlings and the far north.     She really is the odd man out among most people.   What I enjoy about Gilly is her wonder at the world.    She's in awe of Sam's bravery.  She's in awe of things she's never seen.    Not afraid, just amazed.    She's a badass.   

Very interesting idea and well said about Gilly's badassery!

Gilly may actually be a little better off with Marwyn, Quhuru and Xhondo than she would be at Horn Hill. As you mentioned she has lived quite the exciting life since joining up with Sam, so mayhaps getting to see a bit more of the world would further develop Gilly's perspective, rather than locking her away in Horn Hill, trying to maintain the lie about "her and Sam's" kid whilst the whole time dreading the day Lord Randyll returns from war.

Come to think of it, Gilly departing with Marwyn would certainly be a better way of keeping her and Aemon Steelsong close to the thick of things - if she goes to Horn Hill then all us readers might not be privvy to any of her actions, unless Sam eventually comes to take her away. I can't see Sam managing to hide her in the Citadel, and what coin does The Slayer have to rent a room for his beloved in Oldtown?

If Gilly won't be appearing in a Sam POV any time soon, then perhaps we could get her in one of the Mereen based POVs. Tyrion developed a pretty respectful friendship with Lord Commander Mormont upon his visit to Castle Black, so he and Gilly would certainly have much to discuss. If Maester Aemon's corpse remains on the Swan Ship what might Dany think if they meet?

Here's a thought I had, and would really appreciate your feedback @Lady bonehead @Curled Finger and @Damon_Tor

How about Gilly turning out to be "the woman with hands of white fire"?

Euron marrying and corrupting Gilly, the "last sister of the Others" would fit with his horror motif, and "white fire" could certainly be taken as having something to do with the White Walkers. No way of knowing if or why Greyjoy might be connected to the Others, but if he is then his business with Oldtown may be for reasons other than simple plunder or war.

The bringers of the Long Night seem to have some form of transformation process for assimiliating Craster's sons, what could they do to a fully grown female of Craster's blood? If the Crow's Eye has parallels to the Night's King, then Gilly could certainly have the traits of his "white bride", if her brothers are anything to go by that is. That Gilly might also be close to the Horn of Joramun is troubling too...

If Euron, and Gilly do indeed share a few drops of the black blood of Hoare then we have further precedent for a link between the two, and also a Euron/Night's Watch/ connection. But just where to hold such a matrimony should they wed? Well, Harrenhal is the Hoare castle, with it's weirwood rafters, curses and close proximity to the God's Eye it seems rather fitting in a "let's offend/pay tribute to the gods" kinda way. 

Black Harren's pride is currently held by men who, to be honest, seem like they would make Eurons mouth water - imagine his reaction when confronted with the Seven worshipping Bonifer Hasty and his Holy Hundred? The black castle on the God's Eye has been built up so much by it's own dread history that one would think some heavy duty supernatural shenanigans will eventually go down there. Also, Harrenhal is ridiculously oversized, such a gargantuan fortress might be the best place for the Others to set up shop should they get that far south.

 

Edited by Leo of House Cartel

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3 hours ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

Very interesting idea and well said about Gilly's badassery!

Gilly may actually be a little better off with Marwyn, Quhuru and Xhondo than she would be at Horn Hill. As you mentioned she has lived quite the exciting life since joining up with Sam, so mayhaps getting to see a bit more of the world would further develop Gilly's perspective, rather than locking her away in Horn Hill, trying to maintain the lie about "her and Sam's" kid whilst the whole time dreading the day Lord Randyll returns from war.

Come to think of it, Gilly departing with Marwyn would certainly be a better way of keeping her and Aemon Steelsong close to the thick of things - if she goes to Horn Hill then all us readers might not be privvy to any of her actions, unless Sam eventually comes to take her away. I can't see Sam managing to hide her in the Citadel, and what coin does The Slayer have to rent a room for his beloved in Oldtown?

If Gilly won't be appearing in a Sam POV any time soon, then perhaps we could get her in one of the Mereen based POVs. Tyrion developed a pretty respectful friendship with Lord Commander Mormont upon his visit to Castle Black, so he and Gilly would certainly have much to discuss. If Maester Aemon's corpse remains on the Swan Ship what might Dany think if they meet?

Here's a thought I had, and would really appreciate your feedback @Lady bonehead @Curled Finger and @Damon_Tor

How about Gilly turning out to be "the woman with hands of white fire"?

Euron marrying and corrupting Gilly, the "last sister of the Others" would fit with his horror motif, and "white fire" could certainly be taken as having something to do with the White Walkers. No way of knowing if or why Greyjoy might be connected to the Others, but if he is then his business with Oldtown may be for reasons other than simple plunder or war.

The bringers of the Long Night seem to have some form of transformation process for assimiliating Craster's sons, what could they do to a fully grown female of Craster's blood? If the Crow's Eye has parallels to the Night's King, then Gilly could certainly have the traits of his "white bride", if her brothers are anything to go by that is. That Gilly might also be close to the Horn of Joramun is troubling too...

If Euron, and Gilly do indeed share a few drops of the black blood of Hoare then we have further precedent for a link between the two, and also a Euron/Night's Watch/ connection. But just where to hold such a matrimony should they wed? Well, Harrenhal is the Hoare castle, with it's weirwood rafters, curses and close proximity to the God's Eye it seems rather fitting in a "let's offend/pay tribute to the gods" kinda way. 

Black Harren's pride is currently held by men who, to be honest, seem like they would make Eurons mouth water - imagine his reaction when confronted with the Seven worshipping Bonifer Hasty and his Holy Hundred? The black castle on the God's Eye has been built up so much by it's own dread history that one would think some heavy duty supernatural shenanigans will eventually go down there. Also, Harrenhal is ridiculously oversized, such a gargantuan fortress might be the best place for the Others to set up shop should they get that far south.

 

Ah that's the Leo I know and love--thinking in overdrive!   Wow Man, that whole Gilly a sister to the Others is bleak, dark Man.    But not entirely unthinkable.  It's easy to forget or in my case, completely overlook Gilly's dark connections to the Others.    But as you brutally illustrate, the connections are there.    She's a sister who has absconded with one of their own--what baby was earmarked for in the hierarchy of the Others' is unknowable.   Still all those boys were given for some reason, just as Craster, who it seems was wealthy by comparison to the Wildlings, only married within his own bloodline.   Kinda makes me wonder who the 1st Mrs. Craster was and leaves me flatly with "his sister".   (A few minutes later it occurs to me she could have been his own mother--ick!) In this it's easy to see that some sort of agreement or probably just ancient familial knowledge was passed from generation to generation on Craster's mother's side, being a local.    It's possible the knowledge could have passed to Craster from his father, a crow, but unless there is some darker conspiracy than Bowen and his gang acting at some completely unknown pact with the Others, I doubt it.     I just don't see the evidence at the current Nights Watch for this group.    Let's go with the mom since it's just easier for me to wrap my head around.   OK if this is a family pact how the heck did Craster both get to take his own sister to wife as well as be spared from becoming a sacrifice?   I wonder if this is where the loophole is for Gilly and her boy.   Aren't there some older daughter wives still hanging around?   Does Gilly understand the agreement?

Euron?  You are twisted, Leo.    Gotta hand it to you, I think Euron is connected to the Old Gods somehow and by extension to either The Great Other or just whatever cause the Others serve.  Still, Euron strikes me as an apocalyptic kinda guy.    Doesn't mean apocalypse isn't what the Others are after, only that we don't know yet.   We've got the line about producing an heir worthy of some unknown "him" and the line about the woman with hands of white fire.    White fire.    Not the red of dragons nor the green of wyldfire, but white fire.    All I have for that is ice and snow and freezer burn.  Same difference?   Gilly and Mance's boy are children of the far north where all things unmercifully cold would certainly count.   Now I have to break it down to the bare facts we have about Gilly and ask if she strikes anyone as "cold" or "fire"?   The boy is hungry and cries a lot.   Got anything to add?   I'm having a hard time correlating anything other than birthplace and cold to Gilly so help me out here.    Is she tall?   I probably just have blinders on because she's such a sweet and loyal character, still I will remind myself that may make her pliable to any real force around her.    Maybe.   I like what you've done with this and want to read more...on an empty stomach.    Is it possible she may simply be a means to getting to something else?   Someone else?   I can see Euron trying to attain his own type of godship and Gilly would absolutely fit here because of her blood and relations.     

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18 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Ah that's the Leo I know and love--thinking in overdrive!   Wow Man, that whole Gilly a sister to the Others is bleak, dark Man.    But not entirely unthinkable.  It's easy to forget or in my case, completely overlook Gilly's dark connections to the Others.    But as you brutally illustrate, the connections are there.    She's a sister who has absconded with one of their own--what baby was earmarked for in the hierarchy of the Others' is unknowable.   Still all those boys were given for some reason, just as Craster, who it seems was wealthy by comparison to the Wildlings, only married within his own bloodline.   Kinda makes me wonder who the 1st Mrs. Craster was and leaves me flatly with "his sister".   (A few minutes later it occurs to me she could have been his own mother--ick!) In this it's easy to see that some sort of agreement or probably just ancient familial knowledge was passed from generation to generation on Craster's mother's side, being a local.    It's possible the knowledge could have passed to Craster from his father, a crow, but unless there is some darker conspiracy than Bowen and his gang acting at some completely unknown pact with the Others, I doubt it.     I just don't see the evidence at the current Nights Watch for this group.    Let's go with the mom since it's just easier for me to wrap my head around.   OK if this is a family pact how the heck did Craster both get to take his own sister to wife as well as be spared from becoming a sacrifice?   I wonder if this is where the loophole is for Gilly and her boy.   Aren't there some older daughter wives still hanging around?   Does Gilly understand the agreement?

Euron?  You are twisted, Leo.    Gotta hand it to you, I think Euron is connected to the Old Gods somehow and by extension to either The Great Other or just whatever cause the Others serve.  Still, Euron strikes me as an apocalyptic kinda guy.    Doesn't mean apocalypse isn't what the Others are after, only that we don't know yet.   We've got the line about producing an heir worthy of some unknown "him" and the line about the woman with hands of white fire.    White fire.    Not the red of dragons nor the green of wyldfire, but white fire.    All I have for that is ice and snow and freezer burn.  Same difference?   Gilly and Mance's boy are children of the far north where all things unmercifully cold would certainly count.   Now I have to break it down to the bare facts we have about Gilly and ask if she strikes anyone as "cold" or "fire"?   The boy is hungry and cries a lot.   Got anything to add?   I'm having a hard time correlating anything other than birthplace and cold to Gilly so help me out here.    Is she tall?   I probably just have blinders on because she's such a sweet and loyal character, still I will remind myself that may make her pliable to any real force around her.    Maybe.   I like what you've done with this and want to read more...on an empty stomach.    Is it possible she may simply be a means to getting to something else?   Someone else?   I can see Euron trying to attain his own type of godship and Gilly would absolutely fit here because of her blood and relations.     

Kind words my friends, many thanks. Your points about Craster's mother, as black as they might be, make a lot of sense. I can't see Bowen and co having a pact with the Others either, so the first wife might have had some other worldly knowledge.

How Craster avoided the same fate as his sons is a difficult one. Perhaps the Others simply needed a human stud for the continuation of their species. I guess that maybe Craster's blood is a reason for the incest situation at the keep.

Gilly's son and his regular hunger/crying might just be normal baby behaviour, but it could also hint towards the lad both calling out for some unseen force and having an primal urge to consume. I'm not sure how much Gilly knew about Craster's pact, but I keep imagining all of Craster's wives looking out of the Keep one dark night and being terrified by numerous pale blue eyes and twisted white faces staring back at them from the trees, the dead come to collect their due. Why wouldn't the Walkers make their presence known to the women, at least by sight? If not for anything other than to scare them into not attempting to escape.

By the Euron/Gilly angle, I would reckon the hands of white fire could be more metaphorical and perhaps even represent Gilly's place amongst the Others, who would "torch" the human way of life.

 The idea I had was that Euron, connected to the White Walker's cause, could capture Gilly and somehow have her transformed into a female Other, in a similiar process her brother undergo. The Walkers are described as "Tall and Gaunt", so if she were to undergo a similiar change to what her her brothers went through,  one would think she might aquire pale blue eyes, grow tall and lose her pigmentation, at the least.

Sadly, this would result in the loss of the sweet and loyal Gilly we all know. I noticed the question of who is a fundamentaly good character asked recently, well Gilly would be my number one. What a woman, to go through the life she did and come out as cool as she is whereas many in her place might turn out to be just as warped as Craster.

With Gilly being so innocent, a transformation into an Other and marriage to the nefarious Euron would certainly be darkly ironic. That she fell in love with Sam The Slayer, the first to kill an Other/one of her brothers in the series, would be added heartbreak!

Greyjoy wants that worthy heir; well, if he were to get Gilly with child then his heir would at least be worthy of them, and perhaps some kind of "him" too. This could even lend him more support amongst the Others, especially if he takes the horn of Joramund too. 

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23 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

Kind words my friends, many thanks. Your points about Craster's mother, as black as they might be, make a lot of sense. I can't see Bowen and co having a pact with the Others either, so the first wife might have had some other worldly knowledge.

How Craster avoided the same fate as his sons is a difficult one. Perhaps the Others simply needed a human stud for the continuation of their species. I guess that maybe Craster's blood is a reason for the incest situation at the keep.

Gilly's son and his regular hunger/crying might just be normal baby behaviour, but it could also hint towards the lad both calling out for some unseen force and having an primal urge to consume. I'm not sure how much Gilly knew about Craster's pact, but I keep imagining all of Craster's wives looking out of the Keep one dark night and being terrified by numerous pale blue eyes and twisted white faces staring back at them from the trees, the dead come to collect their due. Why wouldn't the Walkers make their presence known to the women, at least by sight? If not for anything other than to scare them into not attempting to escape.

By the Euron/Gilly angle, I would reckon the hands of white fire could be more metaphorical and perhaps even represent Gilly's place amongst the Others, who would "torch" the human way of life.

 The idea I had was that Euron, connected to the White Walker's cause, could capture Gilly and somehow have her transformed into a female Other, in a similiar process her brother undergo. The Walkers are described as "Tall and Gaunt", so if she were to undergo a similiar change to what her her brothers went through,  one would think she might aquire pale blue eyes, grow tall and lose her pigmentation, at the least.

Sadly, this would result in the loss of the sweet and loyal Gilly we all know. I noticed the question of who is a fundamentaly good character asked recently, well Gilly would be my number one. What a woman, to go through the life she did and come out as cool as she is whereas many in her place might turn out to be just as warped as Craster.

With Gilly being so innocent, a transformation into an Other and marriage to the nefarious Euron would certainly be darkly ironic. That she fell in love with Sam The Slayer, the first to kill an Other/one of her brothers in the series, would be added heartbreak!

Greyjoy wants that worthy heir; well, if he were to get Gilly with child then his heir would at least be worthy of them, and perhaps some kind of "him" too. This could even lend him more support amongst the Others, especially if he takes the horn of Joramund too. 

You can see I began bolding things, but then the whole thing was bold, so I will try to cherry pick a few comments here.   I doubt we will ever really understand whatever Craster's deal with the Others is.   I think you are spot on in assuming it some sort of life extension.   Curious it only seems to go to infant boys and there are no females.   So yes, Gilly becoming an Other would be utterly heartbreaking and not difficult to envision in this train of thought.   Jumping on this train is Euron, with his psychic connections--could it be he has a deal, too?    I once called Euron's abilities a sort of blue sight meaning opposed to green sight but stemming from the same original power.   Could he be thinking he would be the next greater Craster or more likely, the next Great Other?    He's got to get an heir worthy or someone, not himself--but why?   And he's got to get a powerful woman to get that heir on.   Call me silly, but doesn't a woman on a ship in the middle of the sea seem a more likely target than say a woman in the Red Keep or wandering the desert?   I hate this Leo, but it's a much better story than not knowing what happens to Gilly at Horn Hill.   To boot, Euron  having a pact with the Others with all the power that could entail makes his agenda just a bit easier to get one's head around.    Yikes. 

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Posted (edited)

15 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

You can see I began bolding things, but then the whole thing was bold, so I will try to cherry pick a few comments here.   I doubt we will ever really understand whatever Craster's deal with the Others is.   I think you are spot on in assuming it some sort of life extension.   Curious it only seems to go to infant boys and there are no females.   So yes, Gilly becoming an Other would be utterly heartbreaking and not difficult to envision in this train of thought.   Jumping on this train is Euron, with his psychic connections--could it be he has a deal, too?    I once called Euron's abilities a sort of blue sight meaning opposed to green sight but stemming from the same original power.   Could he be thinking he would be the next greater Craster or more likely, the next Great Other?    He's got to get an heir worthy or someone, not himself--but why?   And he's got to get a powerful woman to get that heir on.   Call me silly, but doesn't a woman on a ship in the middle of the sea seem a more likely target than say a woman in the Red Keep or wandering the desert?   I hate this Leo, but it's a much better story than not knowing what happens to Gilly at Horn Hill.   To boot, Euron  having a pact with the Others with all the power that could entail makes his agenda just a bit easier to get one's head around.    Yikes. 

I dig your idea of "blue sight" CF. We know the man's voracious appetite for the wine of the warlocks, so I wonder what his opinions are of the thick liquid's source; the black barked, blue leaved trees of Qarth. Could the Crow's Eye connect with trees the same way Bran does with a weirwood? And would it still be tapping into the same base energy?

Another angle to consider is Gilly herself indulging in some shade of the evening. What horrid sights might Craster's daughter/wife see on a heavy trip like the one Dany goes on? Some kind of mental/spiritual awakening through a psychedelic substance such as the acorn paste, SOTE or even whatever process Arya goes through with the FM could have a massive effect on Gilly, though I imagine it might be shrouded in negativity and Craster/Walker based imagery. I'm sure Bloodraven wouldn't mind a cup of tea and a chat with a lady of such "noble blood"!

That Sam, Gilly and the crew of the Cinnamon Wind sailed past that floating Crow's Eye banner seems really ominous in hindsight.

CF, what do you think about the connection between water magic and ice magic in ASOIAF?

The reason I ask is because in many ways Euron represents the ocean, while Gilly obviously has her familial connections to ice. Ice is frozen water after all....

While we don't have much evidence for Euron using anything outrageous like a Rhoynish wizard's "water wall/hydro-tornado", the power of the Iron Born's Drowned God has been repeatedly hinted at. We know Euron is no true believer in he who dwells beneath the deep, but we also know he isn't above using the powers of other faiths to help with his goals. He is connected to the water in a more profound way than most, being a world class/world traveled pirate, so while he may be no fan of the "god" of the ocean, he is clearly all too aware of it's power.

If Gilly is the Other's sister then I have to wonder is she has any subconcious connection to the "cold shadows" and their frosty sorcery. Perhaps some Walker has been telepathically spying through her eyes this whole time. If Euron were able to have her transformed into his own personal Night's Queen, think of the use ice magic might have for a nautical adventurer/apocalyptic conqueror like The King of The Iron Isles.

Perhaps Euron and Gilly, on their wedding night, might dance to the somber strands of The Song of Ice and Water.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Leo of House Cartel

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