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What if Aegon didn't conquer Westeros?

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basically a thread to talk about if Aegon didn't conquer Westeros. 

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Aegon would have had more time to go fishing.

Meanwhile, the kingdoms would have carried on their current warfare.

Mostly that seems to have mostly been border skirmishes and naval skirmishes (e.g., Starks vs. Arryns over tiny islands), which would have just carried on the same way.

The Stormlands had been gradually losing the Marches to Dorne and the Reach for centuries, so that would probably have continued to happen gradually.

The southern Riverlands/northern Stormlands were always in flux, and there would continue to be wars over them, this time between the Stormlords and the Ironborn. But presumably Harrenhal would be a lot more useful against armies than against dragons, so the Stormlands would never actually push them off the continent again. But there would still be local rebellions, and harassment from the West as well as the Stormlands, so I don't know how long the Ironborn could have held the northern Riverlands—unless they went native and became Riverlords.

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14 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

There would literally be no song of ice and fire 

Sure, no Song of Ice and Fire, or Dunk & Egg, but GRRM could have still written the other prequels. Only instead of Fire and Blood it would probably be called Maxin' and Relaxin': A History or the Targaryen Lords of Dragonstone from Aegon the Chill through Aerys the A Bit Eccentric.

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Falcotron has the right of it - the Seven Kingdoms go on as before, fighting between one another. As he said - some sort of collapse of Iron Born rule in the Riverlands should happen at some point.

I believe that there would be a nice little colony of dragons at Dragonstone, the Valyrian Realm in Exile (yay for Numenor reference!), with Valeryons - and maybe Celtigars too - by now being so interbred with the Targs that they are a dragonrider family as well.

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My guess is that someone else conquers it, keep in mind The Ironborn have already conquered all of the Iron Islands and the Riverlands and stuff like that. I doubt there will still be 7 kings after 300 years.

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Basically nothing changes because nothing will happen. The seven kingdoms are never established; each kingdom retains its sovereignty and any speculation beyond that is just basically fan fiction.

 

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Feysal - I suspect that "Seven Kingdoms" could be as much a geographic name - e.g. Balkans, as much as a political denominator.

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9 hours ago, falcotron said:

Sure, no Song of Ice and Fire, or Dunk & Egg, but GRRM could have still written the other prequels. Only instead of Fire and Blood it would probably be called Maxin' and Relaxin': A History or the Targaryen Lords of Dragonstone from Aegon the Chill through Aerys the A Bit Eccentric.

Don't forget, Maegor the molester and Denys the dope fiend 

9 hours ago, TMIFairy said:

Falcotron has the right of it - the Seven Kingdoms go on as before, fighting between one another. As he said - some sort of collapse of Iron Born rule in the Riverlands should happen at some point.

there is no reason to think the IB rule would collapse. 

9 hours ago, TMIFairy said:

I believe that there would be a nice little colony of dragons at Dragonstone, the Valyrian Realm in Exile (yay for Numenor reference!), with Valeryons - and maybe Celtigars too - by now being so interbred with the Targs that they are a dragonrider family as well.

unless a terrible disease sweeps dragonstone and kills everyone

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Some other descendant Targ would get the bright idea that dragons can OHKO an army and conquer everything in his stead. We'd have Aenys the Conqueror or Maegor the Conqueror.

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6 hours ago, ChuckPunch said:

Some other descendant Targ would get the bright idea that dragons can OHKO an army and conquer everything in his stead. We'd have Aenys the Conqueror or Maegor the Conqueror.

and the story would continue as written 

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7 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

there is no reason to think the IB rule would collapse. 

Sure there is. They were hated by their subjects, overextended, and overinvested in a semi-landlocked vanity project. Not to mention that their neighbors wouldn’t look too kindly on tjem consolidating their hold any further (Ironborn too tied down in the Riverlands to raid anyone? Good. Ironborn using the resources of the Riverlands to raid? Bad).

They’d either have to abandon the old way even more than they already had, or lose their gains. Either way, massive butterflies.

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Well, we wouldn't have the books that we are all here to discuss.  There would be no Baratheon rebellion against the Crown in the fading years of a formerly much more powerful dynasty as a political backdrop for the looming threat of the White Walkers and their army of wights.  No sack of King's Landing causing Daenerys to be secretly whisked away at night to be raised in secret across the Narrow Sea only to be married to Khal Drogo and because of that the circumstances for her to receive dragons eggs as a wedding gift and then later go on to hatch them and for the extinct dragons to once again fly in the skies over Planetos would never take place.    Etc. Etc. 

I'm generally not a fan of "What if?" threads but ones like this where the speculation is about such pivotal events are pretty much a waste of time.  My standard response is to suggest that space aliens would swoop down and create the circumstances for Aegon to conquer Westeros in the exact same way that we read about it.  In fact they erased all traces of their involvement before returning to the L2 Lagrange point where they quietly continue to observe from their dark craft even to this day. 

Edited by White Ravens

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53 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

I'm generally not a fan of "What if?" threads but ones like this where the speculation is about such pivotal events are pretty much a waste of time.  My standard response is to suggest that space aliens would swoop down and create the circumstances for Aegon to conquer Westeros in the exact same way that we read about it.  In fact they erased all traces of their involvement before returning to the L2 Lagrange point where they quietly continue to observe from their dark craft even to this day. 

You’re fun.

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2 hours ago, DominusNovus said:

They’d either have to abandon the old way even more than they already had, or lose their gains. Either way, massive butterflies.

I actually kind of like the possibility of them not being driven out of the Riverlands, and instead giving up the old ways even more.

Sure, nobody remembers the first few Hoare kings very fondly, but Jon Hoare is a pretty good king for the Riverlands (except to the Brackens who are still annoyed at him for marrying a Blackwood).

If the captains back on Pyke disagree, well, maybe they rebel and elect Marlon Greyjoy as King of the Islands, but why did grandpa Harren care so much about those worthless rocks when we've got tons of fertile farmland and rich east-coast ports? Of course eventually the islanders will return to raiding the coasts, as they do every three or four generations even under the Targaryens, but that just leaves the Hoares in the same position as the Starks, Lannisters, and Gardeners.

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10 minutes ago, falcotron said:

I actually kind of like the possibility of them not being driven out of the Riverlands, and instead giving up the old ways even more.

Sure, nobody remembers the first few Hoare kings very fondly, but Jon Hoare is a pretty good king for the Riverlands (except to the Brackens who are still annoyed at him for marrying a Blackwood).

If the captains back on Pyke disagree, well, maybe they rebel and elect Marlon Greyjoy as King of the Islands, but why did grandpa Harren care so much about those worthless rocks when we've got tons of fertile farmland and rich east-coast ports? Of course eventually the islanders will return to raiding the coasts, as they do every three or four generations even under the Targaryens, but that just leaves the Hoares in the same position as the Starks, Lannisters, and Gardeners.

I'd wonder if the Hoares would retain their faith, in the face of being cut off from the Iron Islands themselves.

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16 hours ago, DominusNovus said:

Sure there is. They were hated by their subjects, overextended, and overinvested in a semi-landlocked vanity project. Not to mention that their neighbors wouldn’t look too kindly on tjem consolidating their hold any further (Ironborn too tied down in the Riverlands to raid anyone? Good. Ironborn using the resources of the Riverlands to raid? Bad).

They’d either have to abandon the old way even more than they already had, or lose their gains. Either way, massive butterflies.

The only reason why the Hoares were defeated is because Aegon had a weapon that could shoot fire and melt stone. Otherwise, Harrenhal is impregnable 

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11 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

The only reason why the Hoares were defeated is because Aegon had a weapon that could shoot fire and melt stone. Otherwise, Harrenhal is impregnable 

Right.  I view it as an allusion to dragons being weapons of mass destruction.  Harrenhal was built to be impregnable to conventional weapons but dragons are in a different class of destructive capability and those who possess them need to be taken seriously or else they might use them again. 

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On 9/25/2017 at 3:32 AM, JesseKerkhof said:

My guess is that someone else conquers it, keep in mind The Ironborn have already conquered all of the Iron Islands and the Riverlands and stuff like that. I doubt there will still be 7 kings after 300 years.

Not seeing how the IB conquer all of Westeros when they can't even hold onto their territory taken from the North or Westerlands, and them losing the shield islands to the Reach. They were beating the Stormlanders but the Stormlords were nearly as hated as the IB. I definitely don't see them sailing all the way around the narrow sea to attack the Vale or White Harbor.

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1 hour ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

The only reason why the Hoares were defeated is because Aegon had a weapon that could shoot fire and melt stone. Otherwise, Harrenhal is impregnable 

The castle? Sure. The Hoare’s riverlands empire? Not so much. Harrenhal is a vanity project and is economically unsustainable on its own. 

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