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The Starks, the Others and...Goldenhand?

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I have a crack pot theory about The Others and the Starks that might relate to their motivation and how it all slots into the end game. Mind you most of this isn't new ground but I think there might be a connection with one or two more theories that I find quite interesting. Tinfoil on, and all.

 

The Others and the Starks are intrinsically related.

 

The Starks were called The Kings of Winter for the longest time. Bran the Builder who's said to have built bother Winterfell and The Wall is the founder of house Stark. There's always been a close relationship between the Starks and the Night's Watch who were established to defend against the Others.

 

The books linger on the crypts of Winterfell so much it's just plain ridiculous. I'd sooner believe that Varys is a merman than believe there isn't something important down there. Every king and lord of the castle were immortalized through a statue, and on that statue lay an iron sword.

 

The Others are said to hate iron.

 

Quote

In that darkness, the Others came for the first time ... They were cold things, dead things, that hated iron

 

The Night's King; the 13th Lord Commander was said to be a Stark who took a queen ''pale as the dead with eyes blue as ice'' and that's an obvious match for the description of the Others; when Brandon the Breaker destroyed his hold on the Watch the Walkers were being worshiped in there. There is a blood bond between The Starks and the Others established - and that's terrifying.

 

Cregan Stark spent a lot of time with searching for the horn of winter, said to bring down the wall.

 

There must always be a Stark in Winterfell. That saying is repeated too often for it to be simple tradition.

 

The wights form a Stark sigil in S7; which is very peculiar.

 

Maybe the long night wasn't ended through fiery swords and great heroes of legend, but quite simply: diplomacy. Bran the Builder and the Others came to some kind of pact - the Starks would always rule the north and the Others would rule the lands of always Winter where the cold never ended. A wall was constructed to mark their territory but then slowly things started changing.

 

A Targaryen king burned two Stark lords alive. Ned broke from tradition and made a statue for Lyanna, no iron sword at her feet. A sept was created; challenging the tradition of worshiping the old gods. Ned Stark went south and was killed - and all manner of weird things started happening.

 

Comets bled. Dragons were born. The Others came in full force.

 

One way or another Stark blood is connected to things beyond the wall. Let's a dive a little deeper too?

 

It's all connected to the Goldenhand and Bran = Bran the Builder theory. The way the Goldenhand theory goes is essentially - Jaime is TPWP/AA and the conflict with the others won't be solved through force but through diplomatic means. He was reborn through salt and smoke in the bath tub with Brienne. Tyrion killing Tywin with a bolt to the heart was the death of a lion; and he will kill Cersei - who by all means is his nissa nissa. It's all the result of a Valyrian mistranslation. If you believe there is a a pact between the Starks and the Walkers; that makes sense right? that's how the first Brandon Stark solved things, not with the sword.

 

But then if you believe that the Bran we follow is the Builder; then Jaime is the one responsible for establishing this crazy f*cking time loop when he pushed Bran out the window. See what i'm getting at here?

 

Okay so the last part about all three theories being connected is completely bonkers and highly unlikely but I genuinely believe the Starks/Others share a connection and the Stark's dwindling in numbers, the mad king killing the lords of winter with fire, etc played a part in the Others coming back because the pact was disturbed; and that Jaime will ultimately turn out to be the stories real hero.

 

If you made this far, thanks for bearing with me through this long and likely false theory but it's something I like to entertain nonethless.

Edited by Фейсал

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On 9/26/2017 at 4:00 PM, Фейсал said:

Ned broke from tradition and made a statue for Lyanna, no iron sword at her feet.

People keep bringing this up, but there's a statue of Artos the Implacable, who was never a Lord of Winterfell, and there's at least one other one whose name I can't remember who GRRM confirmed was never Lord.

Meanwhile, about 80% of the stuff you mention here doesn't appear in the show at all.* It seems very unlikely that the big revelation is going to be something that they intentionally chose to remove all alleged foreshadowing for.

---

* Some of it does appears n the DVD extras, but I'm pretty sure they don't expect viewers to watch the DVD extras in order to follow the show (especially since they've later contradicted things from those extras in the main show). And, if I'm wrong about that, then you need to explain why some of the DVD extras explicitly change things that you're relying on from the books—e.g., the TV Starks were definitely not originally called Kings of Winter, they were Kings in the North all the way back to Bran the Builder, and King of Winter is just a colloquial title used for them throughout history.

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On 9/27/2017 at 2:00 AM, Фейсал said:

[...]

The wights form a Stark sigil in S7; which is very peculiar.

[...]

I hadn't noticed that, Feisal.

Nice theory. Not sure any of it is true, but it was nice reading it. 

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On 27.9.2017 at 1:00 AM, Фейсал said:

A Targaryen king burned two Stark lords alive. Ned broke from tradition and made a statue for Lyanna, no iron sword at her feet. A sept was created; challenging the tradition of worshiping the old gods. Ned Stark went south and was killed - and all manner of weird things started happening.

It was only one lord. And the heir strangled himself to death. 

 

On 27.9.2017 at 1:00 AM, Фейсал said:

A Targaryen king burned two Stark lords alive. Ned broke from tradition and made a statue for Lyanna, no iron sword at her feet.

The real question is not about the statue but about the bones of Lyanna, Rickard, Brandon and Ned. And there are btw. other female tombs in the crypt. Just no statues.

 

On 27.9.2017 at 1:00 AM, Фейсал said:

It's all connected to the Goldenhand and Bran = Bran the Builder theory. The way the Goldenhand theory goes is essentially - Jaime is TPWP/AA and the conflict with the others won't be solved through force but through diplomatic means. He was reborn through salt and smoke in the bath tub with Brienne. Tyrion killing Tywin with a bolt to the heart was the death of a lion; and he will kill Cersei - who by all means is his nissa nissa. It's all the result of a Valyrian mistranslation. If you believe there is a a pact between the Starks and the Walkers; that makes sense right? that's how the first Brandon Stark solved things, not with the sword.

There are too many hams in the story. Anyway where is the warrior who draws Lightbringer out of the fire ? And what has a Stark/walker alliance to do with Jaime ?

 

On 27.9.2017 at 1:00 AM, Фейсал said:

But then if you believe that the Bran we follow is the Builder; then Jaime is the one responsible for establishing this crazy f*cking time loop when he pushed Bran out the window with the hand he would lose and replace with another made of gold. See what i'm getting at here?

Hodor ? I only understand Hodor. I mean Lightbringer is the red sword of heroes. Where is a golden hand red ?

 

On 27.9.2017 at 1:00 AM, Фейсал said:

and the Stark's dwindling in numbers,

Hodor ? Even now and even if we somehow assume only sons of a lord count, there are more Starks than there were multiple times in history.

 

On 27.9.2017 at 1:00 AM, Фейсал said:

the mad king killing the lords of winter with fire, etc played a part in the Others coming back

Could be the reason. But if it is the reason it has more to do with fire.

 

On 27.9.2017 at 1:00 AM, Фейсал said:

and that Jaime will ultimately turn out to be the stories real hero.

Whoever the show decides to declare as a hero. I mean the show literally tells us how we have to feel about certain persons. So ... 

Edited by SirArthur

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48 minutes ago, SirArthur said:

 

A Stark/Walker alliance means that the first Long Night wasn't solved by strength when by all means humanity was dwindling and teetering on the edge of death - which means Azor Ahai reborn wouldn't solve things by the sword either. Jaime's weapon is his lost sword hand - because with that sword hand he wouldn't be the person he is now. He wouldn't think laterally to solve problems, he'd merely go back to solving everything with a blade in hand. If you subscribe to Bran being Bran the Builder through time travel - Jaime's sword hand is what pushed him out that tower and started a convoluted time cycle.

A burning hand, no?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozPholpWbCw

How so? it's only Arya and Sansa, now. Jon isn't really a Stark; Rickon is dead, Ned is dead, Robb is dead, Catelyn is dead and Bran isn't really Bran anymore.

1 hour ago, falcotron said:

People keep bringing this up, but there's a statue of Artos the Implacable, who was never a Lord of Winterfell, and there's at least one other one whose name I can't remember who GRRM confirmed was never Lord.

Meanwhile, about 80% of the stuff you mention here doesn't appear in the show at all.* It seems very unlikely that the big revelation is going to be something that they intentionally chose to remove all alleged foreshadowing for.

---

* Some of it does appears n the DVD extras, but I'm pretty sure they don't expect viewers to watch the DVD extras in order to follow the show (especially since they've later contradicted things from those extras in the main show). And, if I'm wrong about that, then you need to explain why some of the DVD extras explicitly change things that you're relying on from the books—e.g., the TV Starks were definitely not originally called Kings of Winter, they were Kings in the North all the way back to Bran the Builder, and King of Winter is just a colloquial title used for them throughout history.

That's a fair point - but I think Jaime's AA/TWTWP transformation is largely intact for the story of the show. That and I struggle to justify Jojen's burning hand in any other way.

 

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3 hours ago, Фейсал said:

A Stark/Walker alliance means that the first Long Night wasn't solved by strength when by all means humanity was dwindling and teetering on the edge of death - which means Azor Ahai reborn wouldn't solve things by the sword either. Jaime's weapon is his lost sword hand - because with that sword hand he wouldn't be the person he is now. He wouldn't think laterally to solve problems, he'd merely go back to solving everything with a blade in hand. If you subscribe to Bran being Bran the Builder through time travel - Jaime's sword hand is what pushed him out that tower and started a convoluted time cycle

I mean .. what is the point of the Azor Ahai prophecy if AA does not wield a red sword of heroes that someone drew out of the fire ?

The entire prophecy(1) is ....[fullfill things] and then Ligthbringer is drawn out of the fire and he who crasps Lightbringer is AA. It requires Lightbringer, the red sword of heroes, to be drawn out of the fire. It's the clause for being AA. It's the only clause for prophecy (1): AA come again. 

the other prophecy (2) is about AA reborn.

When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone

in that prophecy no hand is required. 

 

Jaime can draw Lightbringer out of the fire and throw it away (after he crasped it). And then he can wake dragons out of stone. But what is the point with his hand in all of this ?

Edited by SirArthur

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2 hours ago, SirArthur said:

I mean .. what is the point of the Azor Ahai prophecy if AA does not wield a red sword of heroes that someone drew out of the fire ?

The entire prophecy(1) is ....[fullfill things] and then Ligthbringer is drawn out of the fire and he who crasps Lightbringer is AA. It requires Lightbringer, the red sword of heroes, to be drawn out of the fire. It's the clause for being AA. It's the only clause for prophecy (1): AA come again. 

the other prophecy (2) is about AA reborn.

When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone

in that prophecy no hand is required. 

 

Jaime can draw Lightbringer out of the fire and throw it away (after he crasped it). And then he can wake dragons out of stone. But what is the point with his hand in all of this ?

Like he said , it could all be a mistranslation, misinterpreted Old Valyrian. I think he could have a point. And we've had at least two Light Bringers in the show so far, and we've seen one of it's wielders die, accomplishing little. (It was really just his own sword set on fire though I presume). And we have another whose been theorized to die next season, giving a long kiss. Jaime isn't going to bring dragons out of stone though, Danerys did that.

 

And Jaime's Azor Ahai theory, isn't about him molding and wielding a literal, flaming sword, ie. Lightbringer. The Lightbringer in his theory is a metaphor for his actual life. "Being born amidst smoke and salt",  that deals with his bath with Brienne,  and him telling her where the name Kingslayer comes from, why he killed his King, and then breaking that character whom everyone thought was so fearsome. Thats where the breaking of the sword apparently fits him. The breaking of the sword after being plunged into the heart of a lion, supposedly signifies the death of the Lannister line, with Joffrey, Tywin, and perhaps Tommen dying. And the lightbringer aspect bringing it all together, is him possibly killing Cersei (his Nissa Nissa), after finding out Tommen killed himself specifically because Cersei used the Mad Kings wildfire to destroy the Great Sept, the Tyrells, the High Sparrow and effectively a large portion of the city. And his goldenhand somehow catching fire as he strangles Cersei. I put presumably and possibly here because its just a theory right now. And a slight detail, the Valyrian words for Lord and Light are supposedly Aeskio & Onos, which is similar to Aeskion and Ondos, which suppposedly translates to Gold Hand, hence the mistranslation.

 

Where'd the Wight's make a Stark sigil in S7, though?

Edited by RhaegoTheUnborn

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On 09/27/2017 at 1:00 AM, Фейсал said:

But then if you believe that the Bran we follow is the Builder; then Jaime is the one responsible for establishing this crazy f*cking time loop when he pushed Bran out the window with the hand he would lose and replace with another made of gold. See what i'm getting at here?

:P:D Good one. Watch the episode again: Jaime pushes Bran WITH HIS LEFT HAND, not his sword hand.

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3 hours ago, Nowy Tends said:

:P:D Good one. Watch the episode again: Jaime pushes Bran WITH HIS LEFT HAND, not his sword hand.

After rewatching the clip you were right. Edited.

But I do remember a quote in the books by Jaime mentioning the hand that made him and he lists a bunch of things [killing Aerys, messing with Cersei] and I think he mentioned pushing Bran out of the window but I might be misremembering on that count, too.

Edited by Фейсал

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23 hours ago, RhaegoTheUnborn said:

 

 

Where'd the Wight's make a Stark sigil in S7, though?

Sorry for the double post, just saw this post.

It's an overhead shot, here it is:

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_medium/public/thumbnails/image/2017/08/31/09/white-walker-army.jpg

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/mp/nJvpZoFwXQ6x.jpg

You also phrased everything else very eloquently. I really doubt Azor Ahai's prophecy is as straight forward as it's made out to be; and I highly doubt it will be literal. He's reborn in the bath tub with Brienne; Tyrion's arrow into Tywin's heart is the sword plunged into the heart of the lion - Jaime was ultimately responsible for that by freeing tyrion; and Cersei's potential death at his hands is Azor Ahai piercing Nissa Nissa's heart.

Edited by Фейсал

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On 27/09/2017 at 1:00 AM, Фейсал said:

Tinfoil on, and all.

Something must have triggered the Others coming south. I also believe the Starks, or the Free Folk have more to do with the Others and Ice than other men. But except the obvious Ice and the Stark sigil in S7, I don't read much in your evidences. IMO, Jaime would need a magical right hand to become AAR. He may be the Warrior. He may be a Targaryen bastard. But he is not TPtwP, of Aerys and Rhaella line. Bran may have a vision of Bran the Builder, reach him, and learn something useful for once. Don't know how it would help.

IMO, the Targaryens' Fire must be the Ice enemy. What if Rhaegar and Lyanna broke some pact by marrying Fire and Ice? I rather believe we can't defeat the Others. We must then reforge this Pact. It was a pact which brought a lasting peace between the Children and the First Men. IMO, GRRM only design lasting peaces by treaties, pacts, not by wars. Maybe Jon is also the foundation of this new pact. What if he will have to marry a female Other? Like the NK did. Just my tin foil, we never saw this NK's daughter.

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11 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Something must have triggered the Others coming south. I also believe the Starks, or the Free Folk have more to do with the Others and Ice than other men. But except the obvious Ice and the Stark sigil in S7, I don't read much in your evidences. IMO, Jaime would need a magical right hand to become AAR. He may be the Warrior. He may be a Targaryen bastard. But he is not TPtwP, of Aerys and Rhaella line. Bran may have a vision of Bran the Builder, reach him, and learn something useful for once. Don't know how it would help.

IMO, the Targaryens' Fire must be the Ice enemy. What if Rhaegar and Lyanna broke some pact by marrying Fire and Ice? I rather believe we can't defeat the Others. We must then reforge this Pact. It was a pact which brought a lasting peace between the Children and the First Men. IMO, GRRM only design lasting peaces by treaties, pacts, not by wars. Maybe Jon is also the foundation of this new pact. What if he will have to marry a female Other? Like the NK did. Just my tin foil, we never saw this NK's daughter.

Do you really think GRRM would play the prophecy straight, though? it's a legend, a story told and retold over thousands of years. Bits and pieces have been lost and bits and pieces have been added; the lord of light/golden hand translation deal has to be on purpose. Jon is the most plain, vanilla hero of the story. He is Aragorn with curlier hair - he has to be a red herring. Just like Ned and Robb were.

I'v seen that idea presented before - but the NK was the 13th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, not the first. If his marriage to a female other was the byproduct of a pact, wouldn't he have been the first LC?

Edited by Фейсал

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To be honest, that first overhead shot, looks like a goldfish, to me. Only when you see the zoomed in close-up does it seem like the Stark sigil.

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6 hours ago, Фейсал said:

Do you really think GRRM would play the prophecy straight, though?

I take at face value what GRRM said about the NK, no more likely to have survived to the present day than Lann the Clever or Brandon the Builder. It means, no NK in the book, in the present. It was a free speculation of what HBO could do. Because they bought this NK in the show.

Concerning the books and legends of the Long Night. Yes, I give great value to them. Particularly because I feel they are closely fitting to the current situation. The 1st LN is said to have happened because of the wickedness of men. And the same is happening now. I'm not sure if something specific started it. Maybe the Targaryens and Blackfyres wars. Something related to kinslaying anyway, like the Blood Betrayal. Jon is nothing like Ned or Robb, or anyone but people like Maester Aemon  or Qhorin Halfhand. People who sacrificed every personal ambition to serve others. I hope he will not be a deceived hope.

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6 hours ago, Фейсал said:

 Jon is the most plain, vanilla hero of the story. He is Aragorn with curlier hair - he has to be a red herring. Just like Ned and Robb were. 

Personally I think it is too late in the story for Jon to be a red herring. 92% of the way through the story you just have to be really careful with how you use a red herring. I think its more likely that yes he is Aragorn and the story just cleverly hid that fact for a chunk of it than they pull a ha you thought he was Aragorn but at the end we proved you wrong. 

Also, its clear Ned and Robb were red herrings. But when you look at the story now and see that they were red herrings, the story makes sense as Jon’s coming of age story. If Jon is a red herring, how does the story make sense? 

Also, George specifically said he conceived of Nedd and Robb as red herrings and Jon as one of his core five. 

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On 9/29/2017 at 2:09 PM, BalerionTheCat said:

MO, the Targaryens' Fire must be the Ice enemy. What if Rhaegar and Lyanna broke some pact by marrying Fire and Ice? I rather believe we can't defeat the Others. We must then reforge this Pact. It was a pact which brought a lasting peace between the Children and the First Men. IMO, GRRM only design lasting peaces by treaties, pacts, not by wars.

The Pact signed at Gods Eye did not bring about a lasting peace between First Men and Children; the First Men began attacking the Children again soon after, which is why the Children created the White Walkers in the first place. (Of course that last part we only know for sure on the show; in the books it's still speculation.)

And the only story we're told about the First Men and the Others is about a Battle for the Dawn which sent the Walkers fleeing into the far North to sleep for thousands of years. No pact there.

Meanwhile, the lasting peace in the Seven Kingdoms was forged by an invasion, and the peace between the Free Cities by everyone ganging up to defeat Volantis in a war, while agreements like the Great Council choosing Aegon V only ever provide a generation or two of peace—or not even that, in the case of Dany and Yunkai.

I think GRRM just doesn't design lasting peaces, or at least not everlasting ones. A pact can make the chances of war in the near future less likely, and so can a military victory, but as long as the underlying disputes are still there, the peace isn't going to last forever.

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1 hour ago, falcotron said:

The Pact signed at Gods Eye did not bring about a lasting peace between First Men and Children; the First Men began attacking the Children again soon after, which is why the Children created the White Walkers in the first place. (Of course that last part we only know for sure on the show; in the books it's still speculation.)

And the only story we're told about the First Men and the Others is about a Battle for the Dawn which sent the Walkers fleeing into the far North to sleep for thousands of years. No pact there.

Meanwhile, the lasting peace in the Seven Kingdoms was forged by an invasion, and the peace between the Free Cities by everyone ganging up to defeat Volantis in a war, while agreements like the Great Council choosing Aegon V only ever provide a generation or two of peace—or not even that, in the case of Dany and Yunkai.

I think GRRM just doesn't design lasting peaces, or at least not everlasting ones. A pact can make the chances of war in the near future less likely, and so can a military victory, but as long as the underlying disputes are still there, the peace isn't going to last forever.

That feels very true to real life too. Peace doesn’t last. War is a pretty constant state of human affairs. 

 

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11 hours ago, falcotron said:

Meanwhile, the lasting peace in the Seven Kingdoms was forged by an invasion,

The only place relatively at peace during the last 300 years was the North. With the Stark ruling accepted by about everyone one and the Targaryens not meddling. The invasion didn't bring peace. It brought submission and rebellion. Maegor and the Faith rebellions, Dorme wars, the Dance of Dragons, the Blackfyres and Robert rebellions. A few kings worse than average. Pretty a lot for only 300 years.

11 hours ago, falcotron said:

I think GRRM just doesn't design lasting peaces, or at least not everlasting ones. A pact can make the chances of war in the near future less likely, and so can a military victory, but as long as the underlying disputes are still there, the peace isn't going to last forever.

That is the story of the last 12,000 years, or even more. I'm fed up to read it everywhere in GRRM books. Except, there is a legend of a better time before all this. Before Blood magic and monsters. That is my hope of finishing ASoIaF with something else than bitterness and feeling of wasted sacrifices.

10 hours ago, jcmontea said:

That feels very true to real life too. Peace doesn’t last. War is a pretty constant state of human affairs.

Yes, our world is like that.

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8 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

The only place relatively at peace during the last 300 years was the North. With the Stark ruling accepted by about everyone one and the Targaryens not meddling. The invasion didn't bring peace. It brought submission and rebellion. Maegor and the Faith rebellions, Dorme wars, the Dance of Dragons, the Blackfyres and Robert rebellions. A few kings worse than average. Pretty a lot for only 300 years.

So you think being dragged into a civil war about once per century is less peaceful than the Riverlands being invaded and conquered by the Ironborn, the Stormlands fighting near continuous wars with the Reach and whoever's to their north at the time, Dorne constantly raiding and being raided by the Marches of the Reach and the Stormlands, etc.? Or do you think things have been better across the sea for the last 400 years?

8 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

That is the story of the last 12,000 years, or even more. I'm fed up to read it everywhere in GRRM books. Except, there is a legend of a better time before all this. Before Blood magic and monsters. That is my hope of finishing ASoIaF with something else than bitterness and feeling of wasted sacrifices.

If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.

8 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Yes, our world is like that.

So why do you expect a dark fantasy full of realistic characters to be different?

In our world, things actually do gradually get better over the centuries, despite a lot of backsliding, but they're still a long way from a perfect utopia. If that isn't good enough for you and you need some escapism, I can understand that, but then why read a story like ASoIaF? It's a story about realistic people living under obsolete systems of governance that are much worse than what we have today. It's silly to expect it to end with a happily-ever-after.  But meanwhile, LotR is still in the bookstores, where (spoilers) after the war is over the long-lost rightful king takes over and he's good and wise so the people of Gondor and the Shire do get to live happily ever after.

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, falcotron said:

So you think being dragged into a civil war about once per century is less peaceful than the Riverlands being invaded and conquered by the Ironborn, the Stormlands fighting near continuous wars with the Reach and whoever's to their north at the time, Dorne constantly raiding and being raided by the Marches of the Reach and the Stormlands, etc.? Or do you think things have been better across the sea for the last 400 years?

If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.

So why do you expect a dark fantasy full of realistic characters to be different?

In our world, things actually do gradually get better over the centuries, despite a lot of backsliding, but they're still a long way from a perfect utopia. If that isn't good enough for you and you need some escapism, I can understand that, but then why read a story like ASoIaF? It's a story about realistic people living under obsolete systems of governance that are much worse than what we have today. It's silly to expect it to end with a happily-ever-after.  But meanwhile, LotR is still in the bookstores, where (spoilers) after the war is over the long-lost rightful king takes over and he's good and wise so the people of Gondor and the Shire do get to live happily ever after.

What do you think the ending will be like? 

I think the best ending at this point that both represents progress - “i.e. breaking the wheel” - and does not descend into fairy tale non sense is the end of feudalism in Westeros and the emergence of a strong central state.

It is progress because the evolution away from feudalism was the initial stages of modernity in our world and it represents a much better life for everyone who is not a noble. 

It is also realistic because the elements for it are there. The two main things that destroyed feudalism in our world where: 1.) the rise of cities which allowed the crown enough of an independent tax base to fund and maintain a professional army and 2.) the value and bargaining position of labor went up after the black death and the resulting decline in the supply of labor. Both elements of this are present in the current story. 

1.) The great houses are practically on life support at this point after all the senseless feudal wars. The crown is already practically controlling directly the Stormlands and Riverlands. Post Great War the Crownlands can be formally augmented to incorporate a lot of this land and permanetly increase the power of the crown via a vis the nobility. 

Plus the kernel of a professional army loyal to the crown is there with the Dothraki, the Unsullied, the Golden Compay (if they defect to Team Targ as many suspect) and the Dragons (if they survive). 

2.) The White Walkers are death personified. They along with all the wars that have taken place will have significantly reduced the number of small folk on the continent. That should allow for greater bargaining power for them like it did in our world. That plus the emergence of a powerful new monarchy independent of the nobility with aspirations of breaking the wheel could lead to a permanent change in the relative power of the small folk vis a vis the nobility. 

While I don’t think the story is looking to turn into a morality play, would also be fitting on one level that the nobility which has plunged westeros into war for the last fifty years sees their power permanently reduced. This could add a bittersweet element as there will be a sense of an old way of life passing from the scene. Which is similar to LOTR ending and how magic goes away without being an exact copy. 

Edited by jcmontea

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