So what's the connection between ghost and bloodraven?

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 hours ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Yes that would help.    You do realise I'm praising your find, it seems like you think I'm arguing the matter, I'm not at all.  Just simply pondering the presence of multiple skinchangers without Arya noticing as all the other instances suggest the skinchanger can feel someone else being there.  It's a cool catch.

Exactly, I'm sure it does.  Perhaps wolf dreams are a way of going unnoticed while one skinchanger is asleep.     

I'm not arguing with you. I am exploring the topic further. 

[Seams]

11 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I think the author was signaling to us that Bloodraven was guiding Nymeria...

. . .

Ancient History, The Coming of the First Men, TWOIAF

Today I came across this in my travels:

Vikings discovered Iceland around 870 CE and then Greenland about a century later. Floki Vilgjerdarsson, also known as Raven-Floki, is credited with the discovery of Iceland He always carried a cage of ravens onboard ship. When he thought land was near, he would release one of the birds. If it circled the boat and landed back aboard, land was not near. If it flew off in a particular direction, the boat followed because they knew the bird would head toward land and food.

(Tools of Navigation, by Rachel Dickinson)

If this legendary Raven-Floki figure was one of GRRM's inspirations for Bloodraven, this opens up a rich metaphor about navigation and, as you already pointed out, the coming of the First Men. Theon already made the connection between wolves and ships when he noted that Asha's ship is called Black Wind and Robb's wolf is called Grey Wind. If there is a link between ships and wolves, it means that Theon got his own "pup" after all, when he took command of the Sea Bitch. If there's another direwolf re-read, we'll have to look for evidence of direwolves as ships and figure out who their captains are and where they make port.

Floki sounds like "flow," and blood flows and flow is wolf spelled backward. Just to belabor one of my old favorites. (And wolf / flow may be more evidence of the Ghost / Bloodraven connection, to get back to the op.) Another possible hint that Bloodraven and Flow(ki)-Raven could be parallel figures.

One thing that doesn't quite work in this metaphor, though, to my mind:

It was growing colder, and pale white mists were threading between the pines and blowing across the bare burned flelds.  (ASoS, Arya I)

If there is blowing, would there still be mist in the air? I lived on an island for years, and mist and wind generally didn't co-exist, as I recall. Or am I too narrowly defining mist as fog?

[Wizz-The-Smith]

On ‎30‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 1:04 AM, Lost Melnibonean said:

I'm not arguing with you. I am exploring the topic further. 

Definitely a cool catch, multiple skinchangers or whatever.  Love textual evidence of Bloodravens presence, although tend to think there should be textual descriptions to back the idea, the gaunt pack of wolves hunting down foes is certainly one of those instances.  Love it.   

[Edgar Allen Poemont]

One of the ideas I've been kicking around in my head lately is that Bloodraven may be a failed TPTWP or AA in a sense. I'm just beginning to try and investigate this angle, so I don't have a lot to back it up, but there are a lot of parallels and potential blood ties  between Jon/Ghost and Bloodraven; both bastards, skinchangers, LC of the NW and if R+L=J, they are both First Men and Valyrian mixed blood too. It seems clear the prophecies have been floating around Planetos in various interpretations and most likely, degrees of completeness, for centuries. I think it would stand to reason, that those with some knowledge (some more, some less) like Rhaegar, Aegon V etc. have either misinterpreted and/or misapplied that knowledge and sometimes, of course, with tragic results. I also think there are a lot of other wild cards too that can disrupt the chain of events or maybe even just the necessary blend of blood needed to fulfill the prophecies. One possibility being a certain Unworthy King's roving eye. I wonder if he came close to accidentally creating that fulfillment in Bloodraven but some critical piece wasn't there. Given BR's prodigious gifts he most likely, like Rhaegar, was aware of both the prophecies and his potential fit in the chain, so to speak. He is certainly one potent force. I think Jon or Bran or both have the potential to be as potent once they unlock and harnesses their gifts.

[kissdbyfire]

18 hours ago, Edgar Allen Poemont said:

One of the ideas I've been kicking around in my head lately is that Bloodraven may be a failed TPTWP or AA in a sense. I'm just beginning to try and investigate this angle, so I don't have a lot to back it up, but there are a lot of parallels and potential blood ties  between Jon/Ghost and Bloodraven; both bastards, skinchangers, LC of the NW and if R+L=J, they are both First Men and Valyrian mixed blood too. It seems clear the prophecies have been floating around Planetos in various interpretations and most likely, degrees of completeness, for centuries. I think it would stand to reason, that those with some knowledge (some more, some less) like Rhaegar, Aegon V etc. have either misinterpreted and/or misapplied that knowledge and sometimes, of course, with tragic results. I also think there are a lot of other wild cards too that can disrupt the chain of events or maybe even just the necessary blend of blood needed to fulfill the prophecies. One possibility being a certain Unworthy King's roving eye. I wonder if he came close to accidentally creating that fulfillment in Bloodraven but some critical piece wasn't there. Given BR's prodigious gifts he most likely, like Rhaegar, was aware of both the prophecies and his potential fit in the chain, so to speak. He is certainly one potent force. I think Jon or Bran or both have the potential to be as potent once they unlock and harnesses their gifts.

I would soooooo love for Bloodraven to be the ptwp but if the GoHH was right, and she was in everything so far, this prophesied prince/princess/dragon would come from Aerys and Rhaella's line. 

[Edgar Allen Poemont]

4 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

would soooooo love for Bloodraven to be the ptwp but if the GoHH was right, and she was in everything so far, this prophesied prince/princess/dragon would come from Aerys and Rhaella's line. 

But the prophecies surely predate the GoHH too and she may be predicting their fulfillment the same as Melisandre, as well as attempting to aid in the fulfillment too, as I think is true for Mel. GoHH may very well prove more accurate but I don't believe anyone has the complete prophecies or the ability to predict the outcomes completely either. The parts we are given are broad enough to allow for multiple interpretations on our part as readers and I think for the prophetic characters, it's much the same. I'm also not sure their efforts insure the results they intend or even fervently believe.

 My point and the reason I brought this up in this thread, is I think given Bloodraven's abilities and knowledge there  may have been a time when he thought he was supposed to fulfill some aspect of prophecy much like Rhaegar did. I wonder if he changed his mind too and transferred that idea to Bran (and seemingly Euron at some point too) or maybe figured out a piece of the puzzle to late and realized he couldn't complete it in his era. I know I'm speculating a bit but I really am intrigued by his parallels with Jon/Ghost and his powers that make him a major player in the Targ/Fire realm and the Stark/Ice realm. So while I don't think he is TWTP, maybe given a different time, place and circumstances, he could have been. I also wonder if the true TWTP has any say in the matter. Will he or she have to choose to fulfill that destiny or make the correct series of choices in the right sequences to even be able to make that ultimate decision? It's one thing to have dragons that prove it (thank you Maester Uncle) or maybe the perfect blend of blood (thanks Father/Brother, whoever!) and another to say, "I have to do what? To who?" Maybe Bloodraven unraveled the mystery to a degree nobody else has been able to do and said "Hell no, I'm not doing that to Shiera. I'd rather go be a tree. And a crow. And every other character the theorists need me to be."

 It seems reasonable that many in world characters would have varying levels of knowledge concerning the prophecies but never the complete picture and struggle as much, if not more, than we do to apply them. I wouldn't be surprised if an event like Summerhall was an attempt to hatch not only dragons but fulfill a prophecy. Maybe it would have worked but some part of the equation was off. I wonder if Aegon V's love for his children and allowing them to marry for love was the wild card here. Maybe the necessary pieces for a fulfillment were slightly altered by free will and maybe have been thousands of times through the centuries and then passed down to the next generation to take their crack at it.