Ashara Dayne the greenseer

[Falcon2909]

Ashara Dayne allegedly commited suicide by jumping down from the palestone-sword tower.
She did it because of a broken heart or whatever - the reason why she did it isn't important.
What I'm saying is that while she was falling down, the three-eyed-raven paid a visit to her. The 3ER opened/tried to open her '3rd' eye, as he did to Bran and Euron.
So when her third eye was succesfully opened (or failed), she fell down into the water and almost drowned until some nearby boat rescued her. Because of her fall, her face may have been disfigured. However, she probably gained new abilities (greenseeing).
She was a changed woman now, and she wanted to learn more about this new ability and visions so she travels to Asshai and learns magic and shadowbinding stuff. And thus she takes the name of Quaithe.
(Dany doesn't notice Quaithe's purple eyes because she might be wearing contact lenses, or shadowbinding may have changed the colours, or the fall may have shattered her eyes).
Quaithe is able to visit Dany via dreams/visions of the future she learnt through greensight by using a glass candle.

[Фейсал]

Are contact lenses a thing in Westeros?

[Lost Melnibonean]

Quaithe is Sheira Seastar...

Quote

Dany had not noticed Quaithe in the crowd, yet there she stood, eyes wet and shiny behind the implacable red lacquer mask.

Daenerys III, Clash 40

Quote

“You’ve known queens and princesses. Did they dance with demons and practice the black arts?”

“Lady Shiera does. Lord Bloodraven’s paramour. She bathes in blood to keep her beauty."

The Sworn Sword

Quote

I have my own ghosts, Bran. A brother that I loved, a brother that I hated, a woman I desired.

Bran III, Dance 34

So, we have Bloodraven living on in the tree, Daemon Blackfyre reborn in Aegon red with rust, Bittersteel grinning atop a golden spear, and Sheira Seastar eyes wet and shiny giving counsel to the Mother of Dragons. 

[cgrav]

Not seeing it. It's OK for Ashara to be dead, and I think there are interesting options for that, as well.

Personally, I think she's dead, and it's possible Ned executed her. Here goes:

-Rhaegar was planning to depose Aerys and fulfill a prophecy

-To do both, he needed to establish a separate succession of "Ice and Fire", hence Lyanna

-Rhaegar enlisted his friends' help, including House Dayne 

-When Ned showed up at ToJ and saw the KG guarding a kid, realized what Rhaegar had been up to

-Because Robert was officially King, Rhaegar's plot was definitely treason

-Thus when Ned brought Dawn to Starfall, he also brought a charge of treason, giving Ashara the choices of confession, trial, or flight (as he did with Cersei)

-Ashara picked one, and whatever it was, Ned now says she jumped out of grief for her brother. It's one of his lies that he broods on internally. So I contend that she either jumped to avoid trial, allowed herself to be executed by Ned, or fled somewhere. Whatever the case, it prevents anyone from asking questions that might reveal RLJ.

 

[DominusNovus]

8 hours ago, cgrav said:

Not seeing it. It's OK for Ashara to be dead, and I think there are interesting options for that, as well.

Personally, I think she's dead, and it's possible Ned executed her. Here goes:

-Rhaegar was planning to depose Aerys and fulfill a prophecy

-To do both, he needed to establish a separate succession of "Ice and Fire", hence Lyanna

-Rhaegar enlisted his friends' help, including House Dayne 

-When Ned showed up at ToJ and saw the KG guarding a kid, realized what Rhaegar had been up to

-Because Robert was officially King, Rhaegar's plot was definitely treason

-Thus when Ned brought Dawn to Starfall, he also brought a charge of treason, giving Ashara the choices of confession, trial, or flight (as he did with Cersei)

-Ashara picked one, and whatever it was, Ned now says she jumped out of grief for her brother. It's one of his lies that he broods on internally. So I contend that she either jumped to avoid trial, allowed herself to be executed by Ned, or fled somewhere. Whatever the case, it prevents anyone from asking questions that might reveal RLJ.

 

Why on earth would Ashara be charged with treason?

[cgrav]

39 minutes ago, DominusNovus said:

Why on earth would Ashara be charged with treason?

Dayne participation in Rhaegar's attempt to make a new succession (Dayne servant Wylla was likely at the ToJ). Robert was the new sovereign, so rivals could not be tolerated. She knew it failed when Ned arrived, having killed everyone else who participated (save Jon). 

Remember the first thing we see Ned do is kill a guy who doesn't exactly deserve it. Not without reservation, but he's definitely wiling to hurt people to serve his principles.

[falcotron]

12 hours ago, cgrav said:

-Because Robert was officially King, Rhaegar's plot was definitely treason

How does a plot to remove Aerys constitute treason against Robert?

Especially since the plot seems to have been widespread enough that it probably involved people who ended up fighting on Robert's side*—but let's forget that; even if there's not a single person who talked to Rhaegar about deposing Aerys or making Rhaegar his regent ended up fighting on Robert's side, how is their plot treasonous to Robert?

---

* Remember, the plot was supposed to be hatched at the Harrenhal tourney, thrown by Hoster Tully's in-laws. Among the people invited were the whole Stark family with Howland Reed and Jon Arryn (and Yohn Royce, but he seems like the kind of guy who goes to all the tourneys anyway). It seems pretty plausible that someone on Team Rhaegar at least wanted to feel out the budding Tully-Arryn-Stark alliance to see if they might be on board.

[Фейсал]

4 hours ago, cgrav said:

Dayne participation in Rhaegar's attempt to make a new succession (Dayne servant Wylla was likely at the ToJ). Robert was the new sovereign, so rivals could not be tolerated. She knew it failed when Ned arrived, having killed everyone else who participated (save Jon). 

Remember the first thing we see Ned do is kill a guy who doesn't exactly deserve it. Not without reservation, but he's definitely wiling to hurt people to serve his principles.

This is ridiculous. House Tyrell fought for the Targaryens and they are still Lord Paramounts. The guy Ned killed committed a crime, Ashara did no such thing.

[elder brother jonothor dar]

14 hours ago, cgrav said:

Not seeing it. It's OK for Ashara to be dead, and I think there are interesting options for that, as well.

Personally, I think she's dead, and it's possible Ned executed her. Here goes:

-Rhaegar was planning to depose Aerys and fulfill a prophecy

-To do both, he needed to establish a separate succession of "Ice and Fire", hence Lyanna

-Rhaegar enlisted his friends' help, including House Dayne 

-When Ned showed up at ToJ and saw the KG guarding a kid, realized what Rhaegar had been up to

-Because Robert was officially King, Rhaegar's plot was definitely treason

-Thus when Ned brought Dawn to Starfall, he also brought a charge of treason, giving Ashara the choices of confession, trial, or flight (as he did with Cersei)

-Ashara picked one, and whatever it was, Ned now says she jumped out of grief for her brother. It's one of his lies that he broods on internally. So I contend that she either jumped to avoid trial, allowed herself to be executed by Ned, or fled somewhere. Whatever the case, it prevents anyone from asking questions that might reveal RLJ.

 

What?

Robert was crowned after Rhaegar was killed, so you are saying it is treason retrospectively.

Killing Ashara is going to stop people asking questions? or start asking questions?

4 hours ago, cgrav said:

Dayne participation in Rhaegar's attempt to make a new succession (Dayne servant Wylla was likely at the ToJ). Robert was the new sovereign, so rivals could not be tolerated. She knew it failed when Ned arrived, having killed everyone else who participated (save Jon). 

Remember the first thing we see Ned do is kill a guy who doesn't exactly deserve it. Not without reservation, but he's definitely wiling to hurt people to serve his principles.

He did not kill Wylla though, nor did he kill the rest of the Daynes nor Hightowers or Whents either, just Ashara the KG and possibly Lyanna too?

[Banner Without Brothers]

Plus the fact that Edric Dayne is named after Ned. Whatever happened when Ned came to Starfall House Dayne was very grateful. They also make no secret of that fact as Edric is about to tell Arya the whole story but she doesn't want to hear it because shes upset at hearing that Ned loved Ashara. 

I don't see how any of that could tie in with Ned ordering her death. Also Robert was on a forgiveness spree so probably would have forgiven any treasons.

[Wolf's Bane]

If Ashara is alive she is Lemore.  I think R+L = little griff/false Aegon.

Quaithe is Shiera Seastar. 

[DominusNovus]

13 hours ago, cgrav said:

Dayne participation in Rhaegar's attempt to make a new succession (Dayne servant Wylla was likely at the ToJ). Robert was the new sovereign, so rivals could not be tolerated. She knew it failed when Ned arrived, having killed everyone else who participated (save Jon). 

Remember the first thing we see Ned do is kill a guy who doesn't exactly deserve it. Not without reservation, but he's definitely wiling to hurt people to serve his principles.

Ned's execution of a deserter is deserved.  It doesn't matter that the guy was scared witless, he broke his oath to defend the Wall and ran for his life.  And we have no evidence that Ashara was involved with anything.  Arthur was a strong supporter of Rhaegar, of course, but he was also bound by oath to be.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

13 hours ago, Banner Without Brothers said:

Plus the fact that Edric Dayne is named after Ned. Whatever happened when Ned came to Starfall House Dayne was very grateful. They also make no secret of that fact as Edric is about to tell Arya the whole story but she doesn't want to hear it because shes upset at hearing that Ned loved Ashara. 

I don't see how any of that could tie in with Ned ordering her death. Also Robert was on a forgiveness spree so probably would have forgiven any treasons.

Not proven, or even suggested by the text. It's a fair guess though. 

9 hours ago, Wolf's Bane said:

If Ashara is alive she is Lemore.  I think R+L = little griff/false Aegon.

Quaithe is Shiera Seastar. 

Same as above.

 

OP, there is a fair chance that Ashara is not dead (or at last did not throw herself from that tower), but the greenseer thing has no evidence. I'm okay with Ashara being Quaithe but she would not have to be a greenseer to become a shadowbinder. And we have no evidence of past Daynes being greenseers.

Shadowbinders routinely wear masks, so she wouldn't need to be disfigured. The eyes could be part of a glamour, but then why would she need the mask?

I do kind of like the idea that Bloodraven tried to recruit her by telling her to fly as she was falling though. Taking that a step further, it would stink if it turns out she really did throw herself from the tower, but because she was in a fever dream or some such and a three-eyed crow told her she could fly. 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

On 9/29/2017 at 7:50 AM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Quaithe is Sheira Seastar...

Daenerys III, Clash 40

The Sworn Sword

Bran III, Dance 34

So, we have Bloodraven living on in the tree, Daemon Blackfyre reborn in Aegon red with rust, Bittersteel grinning atop a golden spear, and Sheira Seastar eyes wet and shiny giving counsel to the Mother of Dragons. 

I agree that Sheira is a leading candidate for Quaithe, but Sheira is not described as having wet and shiny eyes. This also brings us back to the point about eye color. Unless she's glamoured someone would notice her eyes are two different colors. And if she's glamoured, why the mask? Just part of the uniform?

[Lost Melnibonean]

9 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I agree that Sheira is a leading candidate for Quaithe, but Sheira is not described as having wet and shiny eyes. This also brings us back to the point about eye color. Unless she's glamoured someone would notice her eyes are two different colors. And if she's glamoured, why the mask? Just part of the uniform?

Her name is Seastar. 

[zandru]

On 9/29/2017 at 3:33 AM, Falcon2909 said:

or whatever - the reason why she did it isn't important.

Seriously? I think the reason Ashara committed suicide will be of great significance in the overall story. Much more so than the Greenseer Conspiracy - or whatever.

[Lord Asher Forrester]

On 30/09/2017 at 11:11 PM, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I agree that Sheira is a leading candidate for Quaithe, but Sheira is not described as having wet and shiny eyes. This also brings us back to the point about eye color. Unless she's glamoured someone would notice her eyes are two different colors. And if she's glamoured, why the mask? Just part of the uniform?

The mask is typical form shadowbinders from Asshai. Quaithe probbably is one, just as Melisandre,

[Фейсал]

9 hours ago, zandru said:

Seriously? I think the reason Ashara committed suicide will be of great significance in the overall story. Much more so than the Greenseer Conspiracy - or whatever.

I think the reason is what it says on the tin - there was something there between her and Ned and she killed herself out of grief

[Faera]

5 hours ago, Фейсал said:

I think the reason is what it says on the tin - there was something there between her and Ned and she killed herself out of grief

Ned had already married Catelyn, so I would imagine the death of Arthur might have been the final straw. Especially, if she had feelings for Ned and she learned he was the one who killed him.

I know there are a lot of "Ashara Lives" theories but I still don't get why or how, either.

[Falcon2909]

21 hours ago, zandru said:

Seriously? I think the reason Ashara committed suicide will be of great significance in the overall story. Much more so than the Greenseer Conspiracy - or whatever.

Yeah, but not relevant to my theory.