GoT Cover, Kindle Edition (Night's King)

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

Mods: I think this post is okay to post here because it should only be discussing a book topic, but if it needs to be moved or locked I understand and apologize.

My Kindle must have updated recently. The cover of A Game of Thrones now features (show stuff below)

Spoiler

The face of HBO's version of the Night's King 

I have a few questions. 

Does George have any say on what is placed on covers like this? And if he does have a say, does this confirm there is an existing Night's King? 

I suppose we could just interpret the cover as a picture of an Other from the prologue but then the descriptions in the book would not quite line up. So I don't know...

I would guess that he must not have a say otherwise he would not have approved this on the cover. I would assume that Amazon (or whomever decides these matters) is trying to attract a new audience to the books with a cover choice like this and George could not do anything about it.

 

[Faera]

13 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Does George have any say on what is placed on covers like this? And if he does have a say, does this confirm there is an existing Night's King? 

 

I'm not sure. My grandmother writes books and I think her publicist deals with what goes on the cover, so he probably doesn't directly decide what goes on it. It was probably done to draw in people who only watched the show with the iconic image of the Others/White Walkers.

As to the Night's King, I'm pretty sure GRRM has said that he's no more alive today than any other mythological figure, like Lan the Clever and so on. So, probably not about in the books.

[Jon Fossoway]

A writer does have a say in the book covers, it's part of the deal with the publishers. I don't think this is exactly the case. Tis more about publicity issues and capturing new readers. There's still a lot of market in the show watchers and incoming generations. Think about 'classic' novels being republished with the movie adaptation cover. It's an awful thing to do but it attracts new readers.  

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

8 minutes ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

A writer does have a say in the book covers, it's part of the deal with the publishers. I don't think this is exactly the case. Tis more about publicity issues and capturing new readers. There's still a lot of market in the show watchers and incoming generations. Think about 'classic' novels being republished with the movie adaptation cover. It's an awful thing to do but it attracts new readers.  

Right. That is absolutely the reason to choose a cover like this.

However, if George did approve of this cover it would mean he also approved the obvious implication the cover has on the reader. This cover influences a new reader to believe a character exists when the text does not confirm the existence of this character.

Am I making sense? I can't come up with a better way to put my thoughts into words at the moment.

[Bael's Bastard]

"As for the Night's King (the form I prefer), in the books he is a legendary figure, akin to Lann the Clever and Brandon the Builder, and no more likely to have survived to the present day than they have."

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/12392

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

12 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

"As for the Night's King (the form I prefer), in the books he is a legendary figure, akin to Lann the Clever and Brandon the Builder, and no more likely to have survived to the present day than they have."

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/12392

Yes, of course. I'm really not wanting this thread to be about the Night's King.

I'm curious whether or not George had a say on the cover. And if he had a say, why would he approve? 

[Leo of House Cartel]

2 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Yes, of course. I'm really not wanting this thread to be about the Night's King.

I'm curious whether or not George had a say on the cover. And if he had a say, why would he approve? 

I suppose one could take the NK on the cover as simply being representative of the Others in general, as opposed to a declaration that we will see the 13th LC in the books.

To many non readers considering buying AGOT the Night King is the most easily recognisable and visualy striking of the show's White Walkers, maybe George signed off on the cover because he thought it would be eye catching to potential new readers, which it probably will to some degree.

[Clegane'sPup]

23 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

I'm curious whether or not George had a say on the cover. And if he had a say, why would he approve? 

The only thing I can add is that when books that are adapted to TV shows are reprinted (?) the cover sometimes displays an image of the show ----  as in Diana Gabaldon’s Outlander cover that features the shows actors on the cover.

For specific information about contracts and rights the question would need to be addressed to Mr. Martin.

[falcotron]

There's no way this could confirm there is an existing Night's King. It could confirm there is an existing Night King, but if so it would strongly imply that he was a different person who became the Night King before the Watch existed. Because…

That's not HBO's Night's King, it's HBO's Night King. Night's King is only mentioned in the

Histories & Lore minisode The Night's Watch, which has Ygritte narrating a story that's nearly identical to the story from the novels. The Night King is the first of the White Walkers, created by Leaf before there even was a Watch.

So it would give no new evidence of Night's King existing, much less existing to this day.

But it probably doesn't confirm anything. Many of the previous covers depict things that don't happen in the books. For example, my paperback for AGoT (the original show-tie-in Bantam US mass market one) doesn't confirm that Ned is going to sit on the Iron Throne with Ice driven into the floor of the throne room. And really, compared to other fantasy novels, we should just be glad the cover isn't a buff Jon in a loincloth carrying a fainting Dany wearing even less over his shoulder while he fights off a four-legged dragon.

I know GRRM got more control over covers than most fantasy writers usually get, but did he really demand to be able to choose all covers for all editions from all publishers? You'd have to give up control over more important things, or a lot of money, to get that, especially since it's not like he was a superstar writer when he was negotiating for AGoT back in the mid 90s.

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

5 hours ago, falcotron said:

For example, my paperback for AGoT (the original show-tie-in Bantam US mass market one) doesn't confirm that Ned is going to sit on the Iron Throne with Ice driven into the floor of the throne room.

Right, but at least Ned is a main character in the book.

The main point I'm trying to make is that having the Night or Night's or whatever king (I'm not that familiar with the show) on the cover would certainly influence a reader to believe this character is in the book. That is why I am curious as to how much pull George has with what goes on the cover. 

5 hours ago, falcotron said:

You'd have to give up control over more important things, or a lot of money, to get that, especially since it's not like he was a superstar writer when he was negotiating for AGoT back in the mid 90s.

Good point. 

[falcotron]

42 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

The main point I'm trying to make is that having the Night or Night's or whatever king (I'm not that familiar with the show) on the cover would certainly influence a reader to believe this character is in the book. That is why I am curious as to how much pull George has with what goes on the cover.

My guess is that if it's not on his official cover art gallery, he probably didn't approve it—and, even if it is, he may not have approved it, he may have just liked it after it came out, or even had a good conversation with the artist. But that's really just a guess. I tried an SSM search a few different ways, and didn't find anything.

It might be worth writing to him to ask. I remember someone on Usenet asked Terry Pratchett about the non-Kirby covers for most foreign editions of the Discworld books, and he went on a pretty entertaining rant about his US publisher.

[AlaskanSandman]

12 hours ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Mods: I think this post is okay to post here because it should only be discussing a book topic, but if it needs to be moved or locked I understand and apologize.

My Kindle must have updated recently. The cover of A Game of Thrones now features (show stuff below)

  Hide contents

The face of HBO's version of the Night's King 

I have a few questions. 

Does George have any say on what is placed on covers like this? And if he does have a say, does this confirm there is an existing Night's King? 

I suppose we could just interpret the cover as a picture of an Other from the prologue but then the descriptions in the book would not quite line up. So I don't know...

I would guess that he must not have a say otherwise he would not have approved this on the cover. I would assume that Amazon (or whomever decides these matters) is trying to attract a new audience to the books with a cover choice like this and George could not do anything about it.

 

Yea id venture they just want more association from show watchers to the book to draw them in for more sales. Especially with HBO getting ready to do spin off series. Id ignore the picture and just go off the text from the book.

[BalerionTheCat]

The Iron Throne on some book cover is the HBO one. Not the big ugly GRRM prefers. Many covers are now taken from the show. This is a win/win for both book and show. The Kindle cover is the same as the coming out S7 BR. This is just marketing, nothing more.

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

7 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Yea id venture they just want more association from show watchers to the book to draw them in for more sales. Especially with HBO getting ready to do spin off series. Id ignore the picture and just go off the text from the book.

Of course.

3 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

The Iron Throne on some book cover is the HBO one. Not the big ugly GRRM prefers. Many covers are now taken from the show.

Yes, but at least there is an Iron Throne in the books. 

I should have worded my thoughts another way in the OP. Let me try again.

This cover is obviously meant to attract show watchers to start reading the books. However, this cover would then lead show watchers to believe this character is in the book. Someone who has only watched the show (from their POV ) would have an association with the character on the cover. I guess I have a hard time believing George would sign off on this. That is why I was wondering if he had a say in what goes on the covers.

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

9 hours ago, falcotron said:

It might be worth writing to him to ask. I remember someone on Usenet asked Terry Pratchett about the non-Kirby covers for most foreign editions of the Discworld books, and he went on a pretty entertaining rant about his US publisher.

That would be awesome!

[BalerionTheCat]

2 hours ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

That would be awesome!

As for the Night's King (the form I prefer), in the books he is a legendary figure, akin to Lann the Clever and Brandon the Builder, and no more likely to have survived to the present day than they have.
grrm.livejournal, Jun. 9th, 2015 at 1:11 AM

I don't need more. Anyway, the show watchers believe plenty of things that are not in the books.

[MrJay]

An author of Martin's stature most likely has a lot if say in his covers. However, it's not entirely up to him. When an author signs a publishing deal, he signs away certain rights. 

Basically, it depends on the contract. But I highly doubt Martin decided to make this cover. His WW are nothing like show WW and this cover would just confuse the hell out of readers. This is most likely a decision from the publishers to take advantage of the shows marketing. 

I highly doubt this is Martin's idea. 

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

1 hour ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Anyway, the show watchers believe plenty of things that are not in the books.

Good point, and having this on the cover is not going to help...

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

1 hour ago, MrJay said:

An author of Martin's stature most likely has a lot if say in his covers.

As @falcotron brought up earlier, George was not the rockstar he is today when GoT was originally published. Also, when agreeing to the contract, there is no way he could have envisioned cover choices being an issue almost a quarter century later.

1 hour ago, MrJay said:

Basically, it depends on the contract. But I highly doubt Martin decided to make this cover. His WW are nothing like show WW and this cover would just confuse the hell out of readers. This is most likely a decision from the publishers to take advantage of the shows marketing. 

I highly doubt this is Martin's idea. 

I agree.

[Clegane'sPup]

22 hours ago, falcotron said:

  Hide contents

That's not HBO's Night's King, it's HBO's Night King. Night's King is only mentioned in the

Histories & Lore minisode The Night's Watch, which has Ygritte narrating a story that's nearly identical to the story from the novels. The Night King is the first of the White Walkers, created by Leaf before there even was a Watch.

The ^ above is part of the leakage problem. Put it a reveal tab or not it still talking about the show. As an aside I have a gripe that the WoW chapters are not supposed to be openly discussed in the general forum.

I’ll go out on a limb and say the author probably doesn’t give a rat’s ass what picture is on the cover of paper bound reprint or an ebook. To actually know what the author thinks a person would need to ask him.

If a person were to read the five books or even use the search site the person would read that Martin’s character name is Night’s King and there is no reference that the Children of the Forest created an Night King by stabbing a man in the heart with a dagger of obsidian/frozen fire/dragonglass.

The CotF united with the frekking Last Hero (another legend) to defeat the Others. Thus the Night’s Watch was formed.

HBO has to be able to visualize an enemy. The Others as Martin describes them can’t be used. The Others/WW are virtually invisible and are seen during the twilight of evening. It is not known if there is a leader/King in the Land of Always Winter where the Other’s have been chillin’ for 8000 years.

A Game of Thrones - Prologue      A shadow emerged from the dark of the wood. It stood in front of Royce. Tall, it was, and gaunt and hard as old bones, with flesh pale as milk. Its armor seemed to change color as it moved; here it was white as new-fallen snow, there black as shadow, everywhere dappled with the deep grey-green of the trees. The patterns ran like moonlight on water with every step it took.

 

The quotes I am going to provide about Martin’s Night’s King are probably as useless as nipples on a breastplate because people want to believe that HBO’s leader of the wight’s with his tiny horns is a man created by the CotF. Cool.

A Storm of Swords - Bran IV           Bran wasn't so certain. The Nightfort had figured in some of Old Nan's scariest stories. It was here that Night's King had reigned, before his name was wiped from the memory of man.

A Storm of Swords - Bran IV              The gathering gloom put Bran in mind of another of Old Nan's stories, the tale of Night's King. He had been the thirteenth man to lead the Night's Watch, she said; a warrior who knew no fear. "And that was the fault in him," she would add, "for all men must know fear."

Storm of Swords - Bran IV         <snip> . For thirteen years they had ruled, Night's King and his corpse queen, till finally the Stark of Winterfell and Joramun of the wildlings had joined to free the Watch from bondage. After his fall, when it was found he had been sacrificing to the Others, all records of Night's King had been destroyed, his very name forbidden.

A Storm of Swords - Bran IV             "Some say he (Night’s King) was a Bolton," Old Nan would always end. "Some say a Magnar out of Skagos, some say Umber, Flint, or Norrey. Some would have you think he was a Woodfoot, from them who ruled Bear Island before the ironmen came. He never was. He was a Stark, the brother of the man who brought him down.

 

I don’t see Martin getting his boxers twisted by a cover picture of a HBO character since the thing that can not be mentioned in the book forum has increased his readership.