SerHaHa

Star Trek: Discovery #2, set phasers to stunned.

99 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

The first thread is full, I've not done this before, but so far as I understand it anyone can begin a new thread on a continuing subject, at least I hope so.

Episode 3 tonight - after pondering the first 2 episodes, after a good 3 re watches per ep, I've decided I'm going to enjoy this new Trek.  I'm actually in the stages of becoming a bit smitten. Yes, I believe I could fall into deep smitt.  There are some pretty solid performances going on here, it's undeniably beautiful to look at, but where a lot of fans are seeing a lack of depth - among an infinite number of other issues, many of which I can identify with too - for me the experience has been a gradual improvement every episode.  Many liked the first, and hated the second, for me I felt they were relatively equal, but this third episode IMO was the best of the three so far.  It had elements of some older Trek series like TNG/DS9, and we've finally been given a look at the external and internal Discovery ship in a bit more detail.  I'm picking up what they're puttin down.  Also, Rekha Sharma is a great actress from here in Canada, formerly of BSG, and I really loved her scenes in this third episode, and am looking forward to see how they develop her as a high ranking (Commander?!) security chief in future eps.

I also love Jason Isaacs, another British actor like Sean Bean whom I'll always make time to watch anything they're involved in.  Great casting decision here, could be a great "Captain" even though the vibe I'm getting (obviously, right) is that the Captain isn't going to be the primary protagonist, at least not for a while.  Yes, I realize this is obvious since we're already on Captain numéro deux already. 

 

Edited by SerHaHa

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I'm glad that Isaacs has shown up.  Hopefully Michael's goofy roomie helps her to lighten up.  Next episode trailer looks promising..

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I really enjoyed episode three. I like the Section 31(ish?) way they took it. I think that was a Gorn skeleton in the captains room.  I just hope the captain isn't a total psycho. It'd be weird for them to put Micheal in a situation where mutiny was the correct solution. Also it's a minor thing but it seems weird that she was the first starfleet mutineer ever.  

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15 minutes into ep. 3 and this is awful.Does not feel like Trek.The goofy roomie? really? how many more cliches are they gonna pull out.Will be watching just for Jason Isaacs,

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I kind of liked it, the roommate with the 23rd century equivalent of a peanut allergy was kind of weird for me. I liked the fact that there is something sinister about Jason Isaacs.  That alone might keep me watching.  

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well that episode threw me for a loop - very different from the opening 2 parter. But in a good way, i think. It's more "lost" - in-space what with the

weird quantum spores and dark universe hints. Is the whole crew infected or is it just the captain with his weird eyes. There's definitely something "off" and it's not just the feeling this is a black-ops ship

.

I'm sort of hoping that the show may be able to have it's cake and eat it in the sense that

the new super-speed transport will actually allow the show to go where no-one (or trek series) has gone before. One of the characters mentioned "galaxies" at one point let alone a casual mention of being in other quadrants. If they wanted to there's even a chance to drop in on the gamma quadrant or some of Voyager's haunts (not sure there's much from Voyager I'd like to see revisited)

Anyway, I'm a lot more curious about the show now than I was from the pilot. I like the possibility that the Klingons have been a bit of a red herring with regards to the shows focus. I'm sure the Klingons will be a recurring theme but I do like the potential the new episode has opened up.

As for the new characters it felt like they were deliberately aiming to show people with developmental disorders on the "social/emotional" spectrum. That or there's just something "off" about the new characters (I mean that in the sense it's either good writing/acting or bad). The room-mate has some kind of issue with interacting with other people and the science-guy had an attitude that reminds me far more of real-life scientists than TV ones in the sense he's quite focused/obsessed and excited by his job and finds co-workers a distraction (besides those he regards as equals). Which is refreshing from him just being an awkward geek. I recall Fuller saying he wanted to be as inclusive as possible with this show and I think most of us leapt to LGBT but I think it's cool they are potentially including developmental disorders like autism and aspergers in the future as things that simply require embracing/channeling. And they are doing it with actual humans rather than using aliens as proxies.

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NCC-1031.

Seems a bit obvious in retrospect. The ship is a black ops Sector 31 vessel, operating officially as a normal Starfleet vessel but unofficially is doing a shitton of dodgy experimentation and research to help with the war effort. That makes a lot of sense, and means the show can stay in canon (dodgy Klingon makeup aside) whilst also being able to adopt a very different tone.

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41 minutes ago, Werthead said:

NCC-1031.

Seems a bit obvious in retrospect. The ship is a black ops Sector 31 vessel, operating officially as a normal Starfleet vessel but unofficially is doing a shitton of dodgy experimentation and research to help with the war effort. That makes a lot of sense, and means the show can stay in canon (dodgy Klingon makeup aside) whilst also being able to adopt a very different tone.

And that was pretty much one of the earliest rumours regarding the shows premise, I think?

It does give them license to have characters being a lot more shady/human with one another too. Although I like the idea that the Captain wants Michael present precisely because she's also willing to disobey her captain and mutiny if she feels it's the right thing to do. Maybe she will be his safety net.

Also is this a spoiler thread or not?

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I thought it was a good episode. It was an effective introduction to the Discovery and Jason Isaacs is good at being enigmatic and sinister.

Evidently we couldn't go more than three episodes without having someone crawling through the Jeffreys tubes, some Trek traditions have to be upheld.

1 hour ago, red snow said:

It does give them license to have characters being a lot more shady/human with one another too. Although I like the idea that the Captain wants Michael present precisely because she's also willing to disobey her captain and mutiny if she feels it's the right thing to do. Maybe she will be his safety net.

I do wonder how much Michael is staying because she's convinced by his science demonstration and how much she's staying because she thinks he might be dangerous to Starfleet and wants to keep an eye on him. I think it's fair to assume she doesn't trust him at all.

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1 hour ago, williamjm said:

I do wonder how much Michael is staying because she's convinced by his science demonstration and how much she's staying because she thinks he might be dangerous to Starfleet and wants to keep an eye on him. I think it's fair to assume she doesn't trust him at all.

That's what I thought too.  They're obviously going to build up to another mutiny in the finale.

I wonder if they considered calling this Star Trek: The Prime Directive at any point.  This could be simply be the story of how the prime directive was strengthened from general order 1 into what it becomes in TOS.

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I agree that I sensed another mutiny coming.

The scientist in me just died at the realization that the season is going to focus of effing space fungus. I guess one thing they haven't modernized is in making the "science" more believable. And when Stamets was explaining to Burnham that at a quantum level, biology and physics are the same, I had to wonder how the heck Burnham got to being an expert in quantum physics without knowing that yes, biology is physics, and not just at a quantum level. 

I know all this was for the audience's benefit, but they could have done it more smoothly. Burnham came across as quite the idiot there.

>I recall Fuller saying he wanted to be as inclusive as possible with this show and I think most of us leapt to LGBT but I think it's cool they are potentially including developmental disorders like autism and aspergers in the future as things that simply require embracing/channeling. 

Feels like they're doing both. Stamets is gay, and we'll even see his partner, who also serves in the Discovery, apparently. It looks like they'll treat his homosexuality as a banal aspect of his character, and I like that we didn't see it at all this episode. 

Tilly was interesting. She was all kinds of awkward till things got really dangerous, and then she seemed to calm down. I'm hoping Burnham stays her roommate. 

Lorca was interesting, and I'm really glad they're going to explore what happens when Starfleet's exploratory and military purposes collide. Some interesting tensions in the cast, there, with Burnham and Stamets probably falling on one side, and Lorca (for now) on the other.

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I'm now wondering how Fuller's anthology plan would've tied in to this story. Obviously we know this new means of transport has to either fail or be banned or put on ice for some reason, maybe this would've been the through-line for all the series, leading up to a post-Voyager series where they finally perfected this technology and explored much more distant space. It's frustrating knowing that this is probably a one season plan originally, that'll be stretched indefinitely. Michael is universally hated and due to serve a life sentence, so is Discovery destined to be in the shadows and off the books for however long it runs? 

There was some mention in the Fuller interview where he revealed his anthology plans that this could've built up to a full 'Marvel-isation' of Trek where you'd have multiple series (and probably other media) running at the same time and building a full shared universe (I don't remember if that was just speculation in the article I read though). If this was running alongside a 'main' series it'd be a fascinating look at this darker side of the Federation, but it's a bit of a shame this is all we've got. This is primed to be the weirdest Trek I'd say. But, still, it's very good so far and when you consider the competition....

TOS; The Man Trap, Charlie X, Where No Man Has Gone Before

TNG; Encounter at Farpoint, The Naked Now, Code of Honour 

DS9; Emissary, Past Prologue, A Man Alone

VOY; Caretaker, Parallax, Time and Again

ENT; Broken Bow, Fight or Flight, Strange New World

DSC; The Vulcan Hello, Battle at the Binary Stars, Context is for Kings

.....I'd say DSC wins on almost any metric I can think of. Performances, characters, writing, effects (even adjusting for time period) are all better IMO.

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Posted (edited)

I haven't seen episode 3 as of yet, but... if your speculations here are correct, then I'm out. I hate the concept of Section 31 with a loathing. I hate every attempt at justification that an unsupervised terrorist shadow organization is in any way necessary for the survival of the Federation when they have a perfectly fine official intelligence service that works for the same goal, but poses no risk of going rogue. The only reason I was able to shrug off their existence was through the fact that their operations in DS9 were hilariously amateurish when you put an ounce of thought into it. So I was always fine regarding them as a club of boisterous losers who were constantly exaggerating their worth in order to not look like the morally bancrupt morons they actually are.

I was fine with the prologue episodes. But if they think it is necessary to make up a 'dark side' of the Federation, then the show is dead in my eyes. I want to see the human side of the Federation, the flawed side, not an evil one! I want the striving towards one's ideals in spite of all odds, not a bunch of cynical assholes bragging with the superiority of not giving a shit. If Discovery doesn't get rid of Jason Isaacs and his cronies fast, I see no future for this nonsense. I don't want a serial 'Into Darkness' with a ludicrously powerful Section 31 at all. Star Trek is the last modern utopia, damn it... if I want to see nihilistic shlock, I'd gonna rewatch Game of Thrones instead...

Edited by Toth

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Posted (edited)

I always found Section 31 interesting, Starfleet Intelligence are afraid of getting their hands dirty and having an organization like the Tal Shiar or the Obsisian Order always made sense. And it also shows that humanity still has a darker side. 

They are like the stuff with the tiny scrubbing bubbles that clean the bowl so you don't have to.  

Edited by Arch-MaesterPhilip

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7 minutes ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

I always found Section 31 interesting, Starfleet Intelligence are afraid of getting their hands dirty and having an organization like the Tal Shiar or the Obsisian Order always made sense. And it also shows that humanity still has a darker side. 

How? How exactly is a rogue shadow organization without any government supervision at all that constantly brags about cutting loose in any way helpful to the counter-intelligence of the Federation? Especially in regards to their xenophobic creed and meddling that constantly endangers the political stability of the galaxy. Imagine the CIA trying to topple regimes left and right, but now without anyone telling them what exactly their goal is supposed to be! Every single action of them is a new galaxy-wide crisis in the making! There is nothing necessary about them, they are just a cancer to a political enitity that is supposed to show the best of what we are capable of!

And now they are giving them all the tech and all the ships when this is supposed to be the Federation's biggest strength. The Federation was always portrayed as some kind of sleeping giant, where the brilliant minds of hundreds of worlds work together to achieve technological superiority. It is their exploration vessels that are capable of mopping the floor with dedicated war ships of most other factions for crying out loud! They already have all the tech they need to overpower an enemy, they are just reluctant to build ships that have limited use in peace-time.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Toth said:

How? How exactly is a rogue shadow organization without any government supervision at all that constantly brags about cutting loose in any way helpful to the counter-intelligence of the Federation? Especially in regards to their xenophobic creed and meddling that constantly endangers the political stability of the galaxy. Imagine the CIA trying to topple regimes left and right, but now without anyone telling them what exactly their goal is supposed to be! Every single action of them is a new galaxy-wide crisis in the making! There is nothing necessary about them, they are just a cancer to a political enitity that is supposed to show the best of what we are capable of!

And now they are giving them all the tech and all the ships when this is supposed to be the Federation's biggest strength. The Federation was always portrayed as some kind of sleeping giant, where the brilliant minds of hundreds of worlds work together to achieve technological superiority. It is their exploration vessels that are capable of mopping the floor with dedicated war ships of most other factions for crying out loud! They already have all the tech they need to overpower an enemy, they are just reluctant to build ships that have limited use in peace-time.

The most fantastical thing about Star Trek to me isn't the technology, or the lack of religion, or the thousands of multitude of sentient races in the galaxy. It's the fact that any political entity in which humanity has a leading role is always going to be the best of what we're capable of. They're going to try but sometimes we're going to be our worst selves and Section 31 in it's own fucked up way are doing that because they think it serves a greater good. And that is why I find them interesting.

I would disagree that they are rogue, Section 31 of the Starfleet Charter allows for them to use extraordinary measures during times of extreme threat. I reckon a war with the Klingons qualifies. They're secretive as fuck but not rogue.

Edited by Arch-MaesterPhilip

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14 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

Feels like they're doing both. Stamets is gay, and we'll even see his partner, who also serves in the Discovery, apparently. It looks like they'll treat his homosexuality as a banal aspect of his character, and I like that we didn't see it at all this episode. 

 

I got that vibe from him with his conversation with his friend so not surprised the character will be gay.

Well, the shit section 31 is supposed to be developing and their status in next gen suggests things don't work out well. Space spores must have something dangerous about them or open this patch of the galaxy to a threat that's not worth the speed. Maybe Salamander Janeway will turn up and Disovery is all "that's it, we're out"?

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12 hours ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

I always found Section 31 interesting, Starfleet Intelligence are afraid of getting their hands dirty and having an organization like the Tal Shiar or the Obsisian Order always made sense. And it also shows that humanity still has a darker side.

If I had to choose something for the first new Star Trek series in over a decade to focus on I don't think Section 31 would have been my first choice, I'd probably have preferred something a bit more traditional. That said, they do offer plenty of potentially interesting storylines.

I do sometimes think that Section 31 feel a bit like the slightly less cooler younger sibling of Special Circumstances from Iain M. Banks' Culture series but until we get a Culture adaptation I suppose they'll have to do.

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Ok. That was one hell of a trek episode. Consider me pleased for the moment. 

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I don't not super well versed in prior Trek, so forgive me if what I say isn't possible but: Isn't it possible that very darkness is why this series had to be a prequel? In the formative time of the Federation it hasn't yet settled into the happy utopia you all love, and when war breaks out with the Klingons they set Section 31 loose. Bad stuff happens, and as has been suggested already this is what makes Star Fleet become the Star Fleet of the other series and makes Section 31 the marginalised joke they seem to be from comments in this thread. That they're given much more by way of resources back then and it backfires, resulting in less investment later and a very rigid code of conduct for the fleet.

That at least justifies why a prequel instead of a sequel.

I've seen comments that they're very excited and have big plans for what to do with the second season narrative if they get it, so I don't think it will linger just being dragged out past the first season narrative. There are plans.

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