Catalun independence vote

[Meera of Tarth]

2 hours ago, Tijgy said:

And the federal prosecutor delegated the EAW to the prosecutors in Brussels.

https://t.co/QSqJ0pqbQS

 

what does exactly mean? I don't know how much burocracy is needed before the arrests takes place, if that's the case. Is it true that they could  slow down the process up until two months? Or does it mean the contrary?

[Tijgy]

@Meera of Tarth

The federal prosecutor sent the EAW to the prosecutor of Brussels - the prosecutor responsible for the prosecution crimes happening in Brussels. This prosecutor has to arrest Puigdemont from the moment he receives the EAW and has from that moment 24 hours to bring P before an investigative judge (juge d'instruction). 

In Belgium we are kind of slow so the prosecutor of Brussesl received it today but did not apparently thought it was necessary to find P yet. They will bring more news on their actions tomorrow on 2.00 pm. 

The investigative judge can then decide if P will be kept in prison or if he will be released (with/without conditions). 

The Raadkamer (part of the correctional court) will decide within fifteen days over the execution of the EAW. 

Both the prosecutor and P can then appeal the decision of the Raadkamer. Within fifteen days the Kamer van Inbeschuldigingstelling (part of the appeal court) has then to decide over the appeal. 

So normally the decision over the EAW can only take thirty days after the decision of the investigative judge. However it is possible to go in cassation with as result it might appear again before de Kamer van Inbeschuldigingsteling and so on and on. 

However the EU rules state that the whole process can take 60 days at most and under special circumstances 90 days. 

So it is possible to slow down the process to 60 days. And like I said, Belgium isn't really quick in those things. 

 

[Meera of Tarth]

4 hours ago, Tijgy said:

@Meera of Tarth

The federal prosecutor sent the EAW to the prosecutor of Brussels - the prosecutor responsible for the prosecution crimes happening in Brussels. This prosecutor has to arrest Puigdemont from the moment he receives the EAW and has from that moment 24 hours to bring P before an investigative judge (juge d'instruction). 

In Belgium we are kind of slow so the prosecutor of Brussesl received it today but did not apparently thought it was necessary to find P yet. They will bring more news on their actions tomorrow on 2.00 pm. 

The investigative judge can then decide if P will be kept in prison or if he will be released (with/without conditions). 

The Raadkamer (part of the correctional court) will decide within fifteen days over the execution of the EAW. 

Both the prosecutor and P can then appeal the decision of the Raadkamer. Within fifteen days the Kamer van Inbeschuldigingstelling (part of the appeal court) has then to decide over the appeal. 

So normally the decision over the EAW can only take thirty days after the decision of the investigative judge. However it is possible to go in cassation with as result it might appear again before de Kamer van Inbeschuldigingsteling and so on and on. 

However the EU rules state that the whole process can take 60 days at most and under special circumstances 90 days. 

So it is possible to slow down the process to 60 days. And like I said, Belgium isn't really quick in those things. 

 

Oh thnaks, so it means 30 days or two months if this slows down

if he s arrested just before the elections from the 21st of December it will have an impact.

[Tijgy]

@Meera of Tarth This morning the Flemish media reported that the Spanish Media reported they heard from the prosecutor of Brussels P and his ministers would be arrested even while the investigative judge still wasn't appointed.

Either they are tapping the prosecutor office or they just making up stories because there is really no reason why the prosecutor office would take only to the Spanish media while there will be a press conference within two hours (or rather three - they are always late). 

And the prosecutor office actually denied what the Spanish media were saying. 

I personally would prevent personally so much as possible to put a bunch of foreign politicians who are prosecuted regarding a political matter in a Belgian prison (and especially the ones in Brussels). 

[Tijgy]

The Catalan leaders were deprived of their freedom this morning on 9 o'clock after they represented themselves to the police. This afternoon they will have a hearing with the investigative judge. Normally he has the time decide over their arrest until tomorrow 9 o'clock. The Brussels' Prosecutor Office stated however that they will give another press conference this evening on 8-10 pm about the possible decision of the judge. 

 

[Meera of Tarth]

1 hour ago, Tijgy said:

The Catalan leaders were deprived of their freedom this morning on 9 o'clock after they represented themselves to the police. This afternoon they will have a hearing with the investigative judge. Normally he has the time decide over their arrest until tomorrow 9 o'clock. The Brussels' Prosecutor Office stated however that they will give another press conference this evening on 8-10 pm about the possible decision of the judge. 

 

That's what I read. I didn't know about the new press conference, I'd be interested to listen to that one.

[Meera of Tarth]

That's what happened the day before the UDI, when elections were a possible thing:

The trigger was the dissatisfaction in the coalition of Together for The Yes and social networks after the rumours of elections (people saying traitor) and also the non confirmation of the SP Government that they'd stop the 155 if Puig did so.

Spoiler

"Lehendakari, I will call elections"

ENRIC JULIANA , Madrid

 

11/05/2017 00:43 | Updated 05/11/2017 10:30

• On the morning of October 26, Carles Puigdemont informed Iñigo Urkullu that he intended to disband the Parlament
•  At two o'clock in the afternoon, the reverse gear started. "I have a rebellion; I can not stand "communicated to Ajuria Enea
•  The central government accepted to curb the 155, after its approval in the Senate
•  

"I have decided to dissolve the Parliament and call elections. It is a decision that I can only take, before the Senate approves the activation of Article 155. It is not the decision that I like the most, but it is the one that corresponds at this time and under these circumstances ... ".

This was to be the message of Carles Puigdemont to the citizens of Catalonia, one day before the Senate approved the application of Article 155 of the Constitution in Catalonia. Thursday, October 26, 2017. Between ten and eleven o'clock in the morning, the Catalan president informed Basque President I ñigo Urkullu , the main fragment of the speech he planned to read before the journalists summoned at midday in the afternoon. Gothic gallery of the Palau de la Generalitat. It was a gesture of deference to the man who had most helped him to find a way out that would prevent the intervention of the Generalitat. That morning, Puigdemont and Urkullu had exchanged brief messages, always in that same direction, according to sources familiar with them.

At ten o'clock in the morning, after a stormy succession of meetings and calls in Barcelona, the decision was already made. "I'm going to summon." A brave step. It was the decision of a man who in those hours felt the bitter taste of political solitude: "Only I can decide." It was a difficult decision, very difficult, that he could rewrite his biography. There would be hostility, there would be protests, there would be misunderstandings. And yet, he was determined to sign the decree. "It is not the decision that I like the most, but it is the one that corresponds at the moment."

Between ten and eleven o'clock in the morning of Thursday, the services of the presidency of the Generalitat summoned to the press. All media interpreted the warning as the imminent announcement of elections, news that the digital edition of La Vanguardia had advanced that morning, signed by deputy director Isabel García Pagan. Almost at the same time, the president's collaborators got in touch with some Catalan media to let them know the approach that Puigdemont intended to transmit. "I want to be the president of the whole country, not half of the country." In these difficult times, the important thing is to safeguard the Generalitat. That was the idea. The decision was made. The decree of convocation was drafted and included an explicit reference to the organic law of the general electoral regime (Loreg). The elections were to be convened in accordance with Spanish legislation.

Early in the morning, Urkullu had told Puigdemont that this reference was very important to ensure the commitment, not written, with the Government of Mariano Rajoy : Article 155 would be approved on Friday in the Senate, but the Executive would stop its application before the dissolution of the Parliament and the call for elections. Puigdemont accepted that premise. Ajuria Enea was confirmed before noon: "In the decree, that mention will appear". Puigdemont was willing to fulfill the terms of the informal commitment with the Moncloa, laboriously gestated by the Basque president, with the active collaboration of a small group of Catalan businessmen and professionals.

The president of the Xunta de Galicia, Alberto Núñez Feijóo , sent that same code messages that morning: "The application of Article 155 depends on the independentistas. If constituent elections are called to affirm independence, the 155 is more necessary than ever. If elections are held to govern the community, we will face another scenario. " That was the narrow passageway available, after a few weeks of tremendous tension, in which nobody trusted anyone anymore. Rajoy did not trust Puigdemont. And vice versa. The lehendakari had reiterated in the last hours to the Catalan president that the agreement was only possible through a succession of gradual steps. The decree calling elections must contain a message of return to the current law.Once that step was taken, Vice President Soraya Sáenz de Santamaría "would modulate" the tone and content of her speech in the Senate on Thursday afternoon. At the same time, the PSOE would present an amendment calling for the paralysis of 155, if elections were held in Catalonia. The path was narrow, but passable. "We have to take gradual steps," urged Urkullu, who was also in contact with the Moncloa and the socialist secretary general, Pedro Sánchez .

The path, narrow but passable, had been opened a few days before by a succession of administrations whose main protagonists were the Basque president and a small group of Catalan businessmen and professionals: Joaquim Coello (former president of the Port of Barcelona and current president of the Fundació Carulla), Marian Puig(president of the Barcelona Global lobby), the notary Juan José López Burniol and the lawyer Emilio Cuatrecasas , men with the capacity to talk to the Generalitat, the central government and the PSOE. Those four people met first in Barcelona with a man of confidence of the PNV, and immediately after they were received in the palace of Ajuria Enea of Vitoria by the lehendakari Urkullu.

In that meeting the strategy for mediation in extremis was set. Objectives: safeguarding of the Generalitat, elections convened by Puigdemont, brake of 155, gradual return to normality, and if everything went well, establishing a dialogue table to try to draw solutions for the future, after the elections.

Urkullu had kept in touch with Puigdemont since the beginning of September, almost daily in the most critical moments, flanked by the president of the Basque Nationalist Party, Andoni Ortuzar , and in direct communication with three ecclesiastical personalities - the cardinal archbishop of Barcelona, Juan José Omella , the abbot of Montserrat, Josep Maria Soler , and the abbot of Poblet, Octavi Vilà - who in turn made various arrangements in Catalonia.

There were other mediation tasks, of course. Conseller Santi Vila exchanged numerous messages with the president of the Congress, Ana Pastor . The leader of the PSC, Miquel Iceta maintained a fluid communication with the vice-president of the Government and tried a management of last hour with Puigdemont, the afternoon of Thursday. when everything was already lost. The Síndic de Greuges, Rafael Ribó , also moved. Even Pablo Iglesias , leader of Podemos, tried to act as a bridge. Iglesias, who is not incommunicado with Rajoy, exchange messages between both parties before Thursday 26.

It was midday and the President of the Generalitat did not appear in the Gothic gallery of the Palau. The minutes passed and the door of his office remained closed. In the Plaza de Sant Jaume, hundreds of students with independence flags began to shout "Puigdemont, trainer!". The hearing was adjourned for one hour.

The CUP was up in arms. Republican Esquerra was starting to heat up. Oriol Junquerasdemanded that Puigdemont ask for "guarantees". And from Madrid they responded that they could not and did not want to send any public message. First, one step; after, another. Urkullu urged Puigdemont to have confidence in graduality. The networks were inflamed at times. Two deputies of the PDECat, Jordi Cuminal and Albert Batalla, announced their resignation on Twitter. Junqueras did not emit any public opinion, but Gabriel Rufían launched a dart with biblical poison: "155 silver coins". Judas. The executive of ERC met urgently and threatened to leave the Government. Xavier García Albiol , president of the Catalan Popular Party, contrary to a truce that could shrink their limited space, tightened the nuts from the Senate: "The 155 will go forward, although you can graduate." It is not the same to graduate, to brake. The clip Rufián-García Albiol closed the path.

"There is a rebellion among our people, I can not stand," Puigdemont told Ajuria Enea at the stroke of two in the afternoon.

And then, what happened happened.

 

 

[Tijgy]

The process explained in better English 

"By 9.17am CET Monday morning – 24 hours after Carles Puigdemont and his four ministers handed themselves in to Belgium’s federal public prosecutor – an investigating judge must decide whether to arrest the deposed president of Catalonia and his colleagues under Belgian law.

The judge could then decide to release the politicians anyway, but with conditions. If an arrest warrant is issued by Monday morning, a file on the case will be submitted to the pretrial chamber of the court of first instance.

The court must then decide within 15 days from the issuing of the Belgian arrest warrant whether the European arrest warrant issued by the Spanish government shall be executed.

Any of the five could then appeal the decision of the court. The court of appeal has 15 days to take a decision. A further appeal to the court of cassation is then possible, if any of the politicians want to challenge of the court of appeal. It, in turn, has 15 days to give a decision.

Only once this process is complete will Puigdemont, Maria Aleu Serret, Antoni Oliveres Comin, Lluis Gordi Puig and Clara Obiols Ponsati, be deported to Spain to face legal action there.

The most likely argument from the Catalan politicians’ lawyers will be that the charges made by the Spanish government, in particular that of sedition, do not exist in Belgian law. This would be grounds to dismiss the European arrest warrant. The lawyers may also argue that the Spanish judiciary is not sufficiently independent, a line of attack that is less likely to be successful."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/05/carles-puigdemont-what-will-the-belgian-authorities-do-next?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_b-gdnnews#link_time=1509898409

[Tijgy]

Opinion by Puigdemont himself in the Guardian: 

Catalonia is right now the only territory in the European Union that has been denied the supreme law its citizens voted for; the parliament that its citizens elected; the president that this parliament elected; and the government that this president appointed in the exercise of his powers. Acting in an arbitrary, undemocratic, and in my view, unlawful manner, the Spanish state decided to dissolve the Catalan parliament in the middle of the legislative term, to dismiss the president and the Catalan government, to intervene in our self-government and the institutions that the Catalans have been building in our nation for centuries. It committed a brutal judicial offensive to bring about the mass imprisonment and criminalisation of candidates promoting political ideas that, just two years ago, obtained historically high levels of public support.

 In Spain, democracy and law are being reduced to hollow shells

Today, the leaders of this democratic project stand accused of rebellion and face the severest punishment possible under the Spanish penal code – the same as for cases of terrorism or murder: 30 years in prison. The vice-president and seven Catalan government ministers have been in prison since last Thursday, as well as two Catalan civic leaders, while orders for the rest of the Catalan government to be detained have been issued. This is a colossal outrage that will have serious consequences.

Let us remember one key fact: in the elections of 27 September 2015, Junts pel Sí (Together for Yes), the undisputed winner, stood on a manifesto where it explicitly pledged to declare independence and to convene constituent elections. The voters who supported us knew at all times what our purpose was. Yet two years after those elections we are accused of sedition, conspiracy and rebellion for delivering on an electoral programme that we never concealed.

It’s an odd conspiracy, one that receives the popular vote. The 2015 elections delivered a clear majority in favour of Catalan independence: 72 seats out of 135. Only 52 of the 135 seats went to candidates who explicitly rejected the idea of an independence referendum. Yet the legitimate Catalan government has now been outlawed, the Catalan parliament dissolved and a political agenda that has nothing to do with the will of the majority has been imposed.

This is why we will continue denouncing to the entire world the serious democratic shortcomings that are now evident in Spain.

Surely, what must prevail is the will of the majority of the citizens and the respect for fundamental rights included in international treaties signed by the kingdom of Spain, and also incorporated into its constitution. What we have instead are two levels of democracy in Spain: you can be a pro-independence party, but only if you do not rule. You will be charged with rebellion if you comply with your electoral commitment. And if you are against independence but you lack a parliamentary force to govern, the almighty state will come to your defence.

The Spanish judicial system has its own, particularly serious, shortcomings. There is a clear lack of independence and neutrality, with the links between the judiciary and the government visible for all to see. Even at the procedural level, the legal cases against Catalan leaders contain so many irregularities that it is difficult to believe that the accused can rely on any formal guarantees.

The state has demonstrated its determination to strip public officials of their rights, and Spanish justice has been placed at the service of the government’s political agenda. No crime committed in the name of the unity of the country will ever be prosecuted: not the violations of the secrecy of postal correspondence, nor the repeated restrictions on the right to freedom of expression, the blocking of websites without judicial authorisation, arrests made without judicial order, nor the certification of a police brigade outside the law to illegally pursue pro-independence political leaders and the Spanish left.

In demonstrations convened by the governing party of Spain, ultra-right radical groups (direct heirs of the Franco regime, such as the Spanish Falange) have marched, some brandishing fascist banners and making Nazi salutes, while songs demanding my imprisonment and execution have been widely sung. The climate of hostility is summed up by the scream, “Go for them!” from many Spanish citizens as they cheered the police patrols from around the state deployed to prevent the 1 October referendum, an effort by land, sea and air that resembled a military campaign to occupy rebel territory.

Does anyone think that the sacked Catalan government can expect a fair and independent hearing, uninfluenced by political and media pressure? I do not. We will continue to seek the independence of Catalonia, and defend a model of society in which no one is afraid of the power of the state.

I have a duty to demand justice for all of us. Real justice. To bring light to all the dark areas in which the state is allowed to commit unacceptable abuses. And to do this we need to allow in scrutiny from abroad. This attention must above all serve to demand a political rather than judicial solution to the problem.

The Spanish state must honour what was said so many times in the years of terrorism: end violence and we can talk about everything. We, the supporters of Catalan independence, have never opted for violence – on the contrary. But now we find it was all a lie when we were told that everything was up for discussion.

It may be uncomfortable for those who have given their uncritical and unconditional support to Mariano Rajoy’s government, but we will defend our rights to the end. Because we’re playing with much more than our personal futures: we’re playing with democracy itself.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/06/carles-puigdemont-catalonia-democracy-spain-catalans

[Meera of Tarth]

2 hours ago, Tijgy said:

Opinion by Puigdemont himself in the Guardian: 

Catalonia is right now the only territory in the European Union that has been denied the supreme law its citizens voted for; the parliament that its citizens elected; the president that this parliament elected; and the government that this president appointed in the exercise of his powers. Acting in an arbitrary, undemocratic, and in my view, unlawful manner, the Spanish state decided to dissolve the Catalan parliament in the middle of the legislative term, to dismiss the president and the Catalan government, to intervene in our self-government and the institutions that the Catalans have been building in our nation for centuries. It committed a brutal judicial offensive to bring about the mass imprisonment and criminalisation of candidates promoting political ideas that, just two years ago, obtained historically high levels of public support.

 In Spain, democracy and law are being reduced to hollow shells

Today, the leaders of this democratic project stand accused of rebellion and face the severest punishment possible under the Spanish penal code – the same as for cases of terrorism or murder: 30 years in prison. The vice-president and seven Catalan government ministers have been in prison since last Thursday, as well as two Catalan civic leaders, while orders for the rest of the Catalan government to be detained have been issued. This is a colossal outrage that will have serious consequences.

Let us remember one key fact: in the elections of 27 September 2015, Junts pel Sí (Together for Yes), the undisputed winner, stood on a manifesto where it explicitly pledged to declare independence and to convene constituent elections. The voters who supported us knew at all times what our purpose was. Yet two years after those elections we are accused of sedition, conspiracy and rebellion for delivering on an electoral programme that we never concealed.

the bolded things are the ones I don't understand at all....it's so incredible.

[Tijgy]

Puigdemont said he doesn't like to be in Belgium . It is probably he did't went to visit yet all the beautiful Flemish cities  Maybe I should send some chocolat, the only decent beer existing in this world, waffles, mussels, .. 

I might even say that if he doesn't like it here, he should go back to Catalonia. But he can't - because he is ordered by the Belgian judge to stay in Belgium. 

[Meera of Tarth]

15 hours ago, Tijgy said:

Puigdemont said he doesn't like to be in Belgium . It is probably he did't went to visit yet all the beautiful Flemish cities  Maybe I should send some chocolat, the only decent beer existing in this world, waffles, mussels, .. 

I might even say that if he doesn't like it here, he should go back to Catalonia. But he can't - because he is ordered by the Belgian judge to stay in Belgium. 

I loved Belgium and Flanders when I visited it. Beautiful paintings and art, super cute cities, and yes....chocolat, waffles...

I think he doesn't like being there bc he is not staying there in normal cicumstances and he faces prison

[Tijgy]

Interview of Puigdemont on the Flemish Broadcast

https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2017/11/08/puigdemont-in-terzake/

In French with Dutch subtitles

 

[Meera of Tarth]

21 hours ago, Tijgy said:

Interview of Puigdemont on the Flemish Broadcast

https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2017/11/08/puigdemont-in-terzake/

In French with Dutch subtitles

 

Prison with bail of 150000 euros for the President of the Parliament. The rest of the members of the bureau have 7 days to pay 25000 euros and they will face no prison.

[Tijgy]

42 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Prison with bail of 150000 euros for the President of the Parliament. The rest of the members of the bureau have 7 days to pay 25000 euros and they will face no prison.

Is that for allowing the vote in the parliament? 

I am not sure you can ever defend the fact this isn't a political prosecution. This is about the most important member of the legislative organ in whole Catalonia 

 

[Meera of Tarth]

42 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

Is that for allowing the vote in the parliament? 

I am not sure you can ever defend the fact this isn't a political prosecution. This is about the most important member of the legislative organ in whole Catalonia 

 

Yes, she is.

Yes, bc she allwed to vote the UDI, and today she said that the UDI had no legislative effects, and that was symbolic (which is the truth btw).  It's the first time since 1997 that someone goes to jail (even with bail) from the TS court, they changed the court for this week, apparently.

But she will be out tomorrow.

[Tijgy]

@Meera of Tarth

The First Citizen of My Region - Jan Peumans - is kind of amusing him himself  (or rather is very pissed at the fact they put your President of the Catalan Parliament in prison and about what is happening the last two weeks in Catalonia). He apparently did the following things: 

- He invited the Spanish ambassador to diner-  so he can say to him what he thinks about the situation:

- He wrote a sms in Catalan to her to wish her good luck 

- he wrote a letter to Juncker he was not going to a certain event because Juncker refused to act in a mediate role between Catalonia and Spain.  Go Peumans!

https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2017/11/10/peumans---een-parlementsvoorzitter-opsluiten--dat-kan-ik-me-voor/

[Tijgy]

And his speech during de IJzerbedevaart - event where the Flemish Nationalists remember the death of the Flemish soldiers during the WOI - : 

Quote

 

"Les autorités espagnoles ont annulé l'autonomie légalement acquise de la région catalane d'une manière qui suggère le pire. Le gouvernement Rajoy (nom du Premier ministre espagnol, ndlr) nie les aspirations démocratiques de 7,5 millions de Catalans d'une manière qui nous rappelle ce qui est arrivé à la Flandre il y a environ 100 ans", lorsqu'elle a réclamé davantage d'égalité, s'est exclamé M. Peumans lors de son discours prononcé à l'occasion du pèlerinage de l'Yser. "Nous devons remonter loin dans l'histoire de l'Europe occidentale pour trouver un précédent avec un gouvernement qui retire violemment à sa propre population ses droits de parole et de vote."

Il est affligeant d'entendre des plus hauts dirigeants européens qu'une nation qui se sépare de son Etat central disparaitrait automatiquement de l'Union européenne. De telles menaces traduisent une approche de la carotte et du bâton, insufflée par des dirigeants réactionnaires. Il vaudrait mieux que l'Europe consacre son énergie à faciliter un dialogue entre la Catalogne et l'Espagne. Visiblement, cela ne correspond pas à la vision de la génération actuelle des dirigeants européens, qui rêve d'une Europe souveraine et unie, avec un roi soleil à sa tête. Leur politique mène à une suprématie malsaine de quelques grands blocs de pouvoirs en Europe"

 

http://www.lalibre.be/actu/politique-belge/crise-en-catalogne-jan-peumans-tire-a-boulets-rouges-contre-l-europe-lors-du-pelerinage-de-l-yser-5a06fd45cd707514e8b18c63

[Meera of Tarth]

5 hours ago, Tijgy said:

And his speech during de IJzerbedevaart - event where the Flemish Nationalists remember the death of the Flemish soldiers during the WOI - : 

http://www.lalibre.be/actu/politique-belge/crise-en-catalogne-jan-peumans-tire-a-boulets-rouges-contre-l-europe-lors-du-pelerinage-de-l-yser-5a06fd45cd707514e8b18c63

I see, yes EU should be mediating!

BTW look at the demonstration that has just taken place in Barcelona with 750,000 catalans against the political prisoners:

http://www.lavanguardia.com/politica/20171111/432809375064/manifestacion-barcelona-presos-politicos.html

and translated: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lavanguardia.com%2Fpolitica%2F20171111%2F432809375064%2Fmanifestacion-barcelona-presos-politicos.html&sandbox=1

Beautiful pics in this one

And from your newspaper as well:

https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2017/11/11/burgemeester-barcelona---regering-puigdemont-heeft-catalonie-naa/

[Tijgy]

17 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

BTW look at the demonstration that has just taken place in Barcelona with 750,000 catalans against the political prisoners:

 

Smaller but also present: 

https://twitter.com/jmterricabras/status/929688738510327809/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hln.be%2Fnieuws%2Fbinnenland%2Fruim-500-catalanen-betuigen-in-brussel-steun-aan-hun-regering~a3f815c55%2F%3Futm_medium%3Dtwitter%26utm_content%3DNieuws%26utm_source%3Ddlvr.it

500 people demonstrating in Brussels with some of your ministers present and supported by Flemish Lions and Walloon Roosters