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What if fAegon married Cercei?


Wild Bill

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I guess it's been postulated before, but what if fAegon (or real Aegon - it doesn't matter) and Cercei come to a political resolution via marriage to solve his invasion of Westeros, considering the imminent threat of Dany?

Firstly, I think fAegon (or Aegon) represents Perkin Warbeck in GRRM's historical mining of material. The real Perkin Warbeck is

- Richard Duke of York, youngest of the two princes in the tower, presumed to have been murdered by Richard III, but has escaped somehow

- or a reasonable substitute has been found and trained

- vs, in book, the many baby swapping theories...

Secondly, fAegon is clearly, then, to have a greater claim on the Iron Throne, and has invaded Westeros, unlike Dany, dawdling in Meeren, forever...

Thirdly, umm, stuff happens and the notion of a royal marriage between fAegon and Cercei occurs to create a unified realm, between Targs and Lannisters - thereby snuffing out other claimants, ie Dany, though she will be an interesting pretender. Stannis's position, assuming he lives after the battle of Winterfell, is more problematical, being the proper heir to an usurper against a "legitimate" restoration of the prior regime. 

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But what does Cersei bring to the table?

As a claim, very little. The only way she could have any kind of claim is as Robert's widow. Which isn't worth much when two of Robert's kids are alive, and one of them is already on the throne. Unless they're bastards—but in that case, Cersei is a traitor to Robert. Unless you can imagine some crazy scenario where, say, Jaime goes to Dorne to recover Myrcella but ends up getting her killed while Cersei blows up Margy causing Tommen to commit suicide and meanwhile Stannis loses his army by sacrificing his daughter and then gets killed by Brienne. But who would even dream up something like that, and where would they find a teleporter in size 33?

Pragmatically, she does bring the West along, but only at the cost of losing his other potential allies. Dorne are fAegon's likely allies for two reasons—to get revenge on the Lannisters, and to get Arianne married to fAegon. Marry Cersei, and he's just traded the unbloodied Dornish army for the largely spent Westerlands one. (And maybe not even that—who knows what Jaime would do in that scenario.) If she could also deliver the Reach in the deal, it might be worth it, but they're only in it for Queen Margy.

By the way, if fAegon is Perkin Warbeck, then obviously Richard is Henry Tudor and the main War of the Roses is already over. But then Viserys is Lambert Simnel, or rather the real Warwick, having faked his death as Simnel claimed to have done. In which case he'll soon show up at the head of a pitiful army that doesn't even listen to him, be defeated in a single battle, and end up pardoned and working as Tommen's falconer. And I, for one, cannot see Viserys training falcons.

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I doubt that (f)Aegon would even take Myrcella if she wasn't already betrothed on principle because the Lannisters killed his (alleged) mother and sister. Seems more likely he'll marry someone like Arianne or, heh, Margaery once the Tyrells get her annulled from Tommen.

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7 minutes ago, Faera said:

Seems more likely he'll marry someone like Arianne or, heh, Margaery once the Tyrells get her annulled from Tommen.

Man, that's going to set one hell of a precedent.

  • Dany: Why is nobody calling me "Grace'?
  • Tyrion: Well, you haven't met all the traditional requirements.
  • Dany: I'm the bodily heir of the late King Aerys. I entered the Red Keep to the acclaim of the crowds of King's Landing. I sat the Iron Throne without being bitten. I was crowned with the true crown of the Targaryen kings. I was anointed by the High Septon. I'm riding a fucking dragon that I hatched myself, and holding Blackfyre in one hand and Dark Sister in the other. How much more legitimate could I be?
  • Tyrion: All of that is true, but the last four Kings also married Margaery Tyrell.
  • Dany: But she's a woman.
  • Tyrion: Even so…
  • Dany: And she's also dead.
  • Tyrion: Yes, but the people dug her up, put her in a wedding dress, and brought her to the Great Sept.
  • Dany: They're really serious about this? So how exactly am I supposed to produce an heir if I marry a woman, much less a dead one?
  • Tyrion: Well, the last five Kings also failed to produce an heir, so that's actually less of an important precedent now than marrying Margaery Tyrell.
  • Dany: Wait, why are you counting Renly as a King?
  • Tyrion: Even if you leave him out, it really doesn't make things any better, does it?
  • Dany: I suppose not.

Or, if Aegon beats Dany, imagine his son being required to marry his own dead mom to be considered King.

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I'm not sure it would be in Aegon's best interest, from a public relations standpoint. Cersei is still utterly despised by many smallfolk in King's Landing, as evidenced by her walk of shame, why add more negativity to Aegon's name when he will already have to deal with questions of his legitimacy?

Even if Cersei wins her trial, this is a Queen whom, after being pelted with shit in public, the commons of the capital will never be able to take seriously again, unless she drifts into Maegor the Cruel territory that is. She is also Robert's widow, and like as not will be viewed by many members of Aegon's party as too connected to the man who killed Rhaegar. What would Varys think of such a union?

Aegon will also want Dorne, and the anti Lannister sentiment is running wild down on the red sands. A marriage to Cersei could alienate Doran and company.

That being said, Aegon cold certainly use some friends in the Westerlands. If Dorne will play ball with Young Griff then he could eventually instill Myrcella in some place of honour, she is betrothed to Aegon's cousin Trystane after all.

 

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59 minutes ago, falcotron said:

Man, that's going to set one hell of a precedent.

  • Dany: Why is nobody calling me "Grace'?
  • Tyrion: Well, you haven't met all the traditional requirements.
  • Dany: I'm the bodily heir of the late King Aerys. I entered the Red Keep to the acclaim of the crowds of King's Landing. I sat the Iron Throne without being bitten. I was crowned with the true crown of the Targaryen kings. I was anointed by the High Septon. I'm riding a fucking dragon that I hatched myself, and holding Blackfyre in one hand and Dark Sister in the other. How much more legitimate could I be?
  • Tyrion: All of that is true, but the last four Kings also married Margaery Tyrell.
  • Dany: But she's a woman.
  • Tyrion: Even so…
  • Dany: And she's also dead.
  • Tyrion: Yes, but the people dug her up, put her in a wedding dress, and brought her to the Great Sept.
  • Dany: They're really serious about this? So how exactly am I supposed to produce an heir if I marry a woman, much less a dead one?
  • Tyrion: Well, the last five Kings also failed to produce an heir, so that's actually less of an important precedent now than marrying Margaery Tyrell.
  • Dany: Wait, why are you counting Renly as a King?
  • Tyrion: Even if you leave him out, it really doesn't make things any better, does it?
  • Dany: I suppose not.

Or, if Aegon beats Dany, imagine his son being required to marry his own dead mom to be considered King.

We cannot put it past the Tyrells to try. But God, imagine her wiki page.

Spouse

1st: King Renly Baratheon, 2nd: King Joffrey Baratheon, 3rd: King Tommen Baratheon, 4th: King Aegon VI Targaryen, 5th: Queen Daenerys Targaryen (?????)

Nevermind the Six Wives of Henry VIII, we have the Five Spouses of Margaery Tyrell, the king(or queen)maker queen!

I would have suggested Dany herself for Aegon's wife to secure her dragons but that's already the plan and announced plans never seem to happen. Plus, she needs to get her hinny over to Westeros because Aegon's already making landfall.

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17 minutes ago, Faera said:

I would have suggested Dany herself for Aegon's wife to secure her dragons but that's already the plan and announced plans never seem to happen.

Obviously the dragons make it a good deal for Aegon, but not so much for Dany. If she marries Aegon, she's only Queen as in wife of the KIng, not as in regnant in her own right. Marrying him acknowledges that he's really Aegon, meaning he has a better claim to the throne than her. Plus, of course, he'll be the one who conquered Westeros before she got there. Maybe she can spin herself as a new Visenya figure, but even that's a stretch (Visenya didn't wait until Aegon had conquered Westeros before showing up…), and I don't see either her or her supporters* being excited about that anyway.

I think the only question is whether Dany finds out he's a fake, or just assumes he's a fake and defeats him without ever being sure.

---

* Well, Tyrion might try to advise her that being the King's wife is better than yet another civil war. But, what with Tyrion being the guy who told Aegon to go conquer Westeros instead of waiting for her, I'm not sure how thrilled she'll be with his advice.

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1 hour ago, falcotron said:

I think the only question is whether Dany finds out he's a fake, or just assumes he's a fake and defeats him without ever being sure.

Or he looks like Rhaegar, as Dany remembers seeing him in the House of Undying.  But I doubt she will agree to marry him or turn over her dragons regardless of what Aegon thinks should happen.  I think her relationship to Aegon depends on Dany 'remembering who she is'.  I think this will have more to do with her part in the 'song of ice fire' rather than the game of thrones.

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There is a chance that Aegon might marry Myrcella should she end up in his hands. She would both be a hostage against the Lannisters as well as a means to unite the claims and force everyone to seize hostilities. That could work rather nicely after Tommen is dead.

Such a scenario is actually pretty likely considering there is a decent chance that Lady Nym and her people - Myrcella included - might be captured by the Golden Company in the Stormlands, ending up as honored guest at Storm's End. Should Tommen before the final battle between him and Aegon takes place. Neither the Tyrells nor the Lannisters could really resist Aegon if Tommen's heir and successor is in Aegon's hands and has been made his wife. Aegon could even sweeten the deal by having them technically rule as joint rulers - which would be meaningless anyway, since Myrcella is still a minor.

And, of course, Myrcella would likely rather quickly suffer a mortal accident - like poor Queen Jaehaera did - once Aegon has consolidated his power. Aegon is not likely going to want to father children on the daughter of the Usurper (or Jaime/Cersei's bastard), not to mention that Jon Connington has sworn to end the bloodline of the Usurper.

Cersei would be a worse bride, considering her issues with the Dornishmen, not to mention that it should be exceedingly difficult for her to get pregnant. Aegon needs a legitimate heir. I could see something like that happen if there was no Dornish alliance in the making. But there is. If Arianne and the Dornish armies did - for some strange reason - not declare for Aegon and Mace ended up imprisoning Cersei for the murders of Pycelle and Kevan, with Aegon effectively liberating her after he takes the city such a development could make sense. Especially if the Tyrells end up being enemies of both Aegon and the Lannisters.

But in such a scenario Tommen and Myrcella would have to be dead at that point.

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19 hours ago, falcotron said:

But what does Cersei bring to the table?

As a claim, very little. The only way she could have any kind of claim is as Robert's widow. Which isn't worth much when two of Robert's kids are alive, and one of them is already on the throne. Unless they're bastards—but in that case, Cersei is a traitor to Robert. Unless you can imagine some crazy scenario where, say, Jaime goes to Dorne to recover Myrcella but ends up getting her killed while Cersei blows up Margy causing Tommen to commit suicide and meanwhile Stannis loses his army by sacrificing his daughter and then gets killed by Brienne. But who would even dream up something like that, and where would they find a teleporter in size 33?

Pragmatically, she does bring the West along, but only at the cost of losing his other potential allies. Dorne are fAegon's likely allies for two reasons—to get revenge on the Lannisters, and to get Arianne married to fAegon. Marry Cersei, and he's just traded the unbloodied Dornish army for the largely spent Westerlands one. (And maybe not even that—who knows what Jaime would do in that scenario.) If she could also deliver the Reach in the deal, it might be worth it, but they're only in it for Queen Margy.

By the way, if fAegon is Perkin Warbeck, then obviously Richard is Henry Tudor and the main War of the Roses is already over. But then Viserys is Lambert Simnel, or rather the real Warwick, having faked his death as Simnel claimed to have done. In which case he'll soon show up at the head of a pitiful army that doesn't even listen to him, be defeated in a single battle, and end up pardoned and working as Tommen's falconer. And I, for one, cannot see Viserys training falcons.

:D

So much for making half baked posts without actually thinking them through, either book-wise or history-wise. However, I do take exception to the bolded bits - I was making a crackpot theory, but was serious, while this part of your answer is totally absurd, as if from la la land...

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On 10/5/2017 at 7:14 PM, Wild Bill said:

:D

So much for making half baked posts without actually thinking them through, either book-wise or history-wise. However, I do take exception to the bolded bits - I was making a crackpot theory, but was serious, while this part of your answer is totally absurd, as if from la la land...

I was maybe being a little facetious there. Maybe there's some reasonable way Cersei could end up sitting on the throne as Robert's widow before fAegon arrives, some way which would be too complicated for Hollywood (or even Belfast) to pull off, but which might inspire them to something more absurd instead (and then to just drop fAegon because once they've got Cersei on the throne they don't really need him). Just because I can't think of anything doesn't mean it's impossible.

But still, you've got to get both of her kids killed off before it makes sense for fAegon to marry Cersei. (Unless maybe fAegon marries both her and Myrcella. I think mother-daughter incest is the only kind missing from the books at this point…)

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29 minutes ago, falcotron said:

I was maybe being a little facetious there. Maybe there's some reasonable way Cersei could end up sitting on the throne as Robert's widow before fAegon arrives, some way which would be too complicated for Hollywood (or even Belfast) to pull off, but which might inspire them to something more absurd instead (and then to just drop fAegon because once they've got Cersei on the throne they don't really need him). Just because I can't think of anything doesn't mean it's impossible.

But still, you've got to get both of her kids killed off before it makes sense for fAegon to marry Cersei. (Unless maybe fAegon marries both her and Myrcella. I think mother-daughter incest is the only kind missing from the books at this point…)

I deliberated the notion of adding or not adding a ";)" to my prior post, deciding to not since I was tongue in cheek. :) But your latter motion is interesting since I know of a (faux) incestual gay relationship between brothers - perhaps paralleling mother-daughter incest as you mention - which is a cool contrast of brother-brother incest vs mother-daughter incest.

You've probably got the edge since mother-daughter seems just a little bit creepier than brother-brother.

I suppose my original intent in the thread was of real-politik - forgetting the personalities and relationships already existing - fAegon+Cercei (forgetting Tommen for the moment) is a political moment for Cercei to not be in a continuous down-world spiral, but to try to build a political base in Westeros to combat the, presumed, threat from Dany. Notwithstanding that fAegon has much more pull with Dorne, and Dorne poses particular problems, as it were, with Lannisters and Cercei, in particular, with the notion of Marciella a hostage of Dorne.

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