What if fAegon married Cercei?

[Jaak]

Declaring a Lord attainted can be and is done. Getting it taken seriously is another matter.

At Joffrey´s first Court, Starks were attainted unless they showed up to submit, which they did not. Well, the claims of the girls still matter. All the attention about marriages of Sansa and "Arya" show that their claims remain highly relevant despite what Crown might say.

 

About Baratheon and Lannister: Cersei can in effect say on behalf of herself, dead Robert and child Tommen "We thought you were dead and your uncle and aunt were out because... reasons. Go back to your Iron Throne and we go back to Storm´s End and Casterly Rock". The claim of Tommen to Storm´s End is not extinguished by acknowledging Aegon, and Cersei has a practical claim to Rock.

[Endymion I Targaryen]

Advantages of marrying Cersei are far less than disadvantages. She offers Aegon the wealth of Casterly Rock and what is left of the Lannister army and it appears that both the Targaryen and usurper side ally but Aegon loses the anti-Lannister block on which he focuses in DWD and WOW (Dorne, Stormlands) and gains the enmity of Lannister enemies (North,Riverlands,Tyrells, Faith). She is the daughter of Twyin (who ordered the deaths of Elia and Rhaenys), sister of the Kingslayer, widow of the usurper. Plus she has a bad reputation for twincest,murder and has been publicly ashamed. Myrcella or another Lannister is a far better choice if Aegon wants to unite the two sides.

[Corvo the Crow]

On ‎05‎.‎10‎.‎2017 at 9:19 AM, falcotron said:

But what does Cersei bring to the table?

As a claim, very little. The only way she could have any kind of claim is as Robert's widow. Which isn't worth much when two of Robert's kids are alive, and one of them is already on the throne. Unless they're bastards—but in that case, Cersei is a traitor to Robert. Unless you can imagine some crazy scenario where, say, Jaime goes to Dorne to recover Myrcella but ends up getting her killed while Cersei blows up Margy causing Tommen to commit suicide and meanwhile Stannis loses his army by sacrificing his daughter and then gets killed by Brienne. But who would even dream up something like that, and where would they find a teleporter in size 33?

In this tinfoil of yours, what prevents Dany from marrying Loras?  Because, you know, if Cersei is going to calaim the throne through her marriage to Robert then Margaery is ahead of her with not one but three marriages to three Baratheon kings. So obviously throne will pass on to Loras after Tommen. Garlan and Willas died in their and if anyone says "but Garlan is in KL" is a lying facelessmen conspiracist. That Garlan is Jaqaerys Hrakkar who is the kindly old men.

To take it seriously, Cersei marriage is useless to Aegon. She has no claims to the throne, she won't even be able to bring the support of the West, which will possibly be taken by some Lannister cousin unless Jaime is released from his vows. She is no good for popping up some heirs either. Simply marrying Danaerys who brings three dragons and an army several times that of the golden company. She is also very young, much more suitable to get an heir and plenty of spare, unless Aegon has a secret way of knowing Danaerys can't make children. Failing that, he can just follow the trend and kill Tommen and marry Margaery. Mace would love that, not every noble lady has the chance to become queen for four different kings and she is what, 16 years old now? She'll have plenty of oppurtunities to marry a few more kings like Jon or even Mance... perhaps even Stannis?

[RhaegoTheUnborn]

On 10/4/2017 at 11:52 PM, Wild Bill said:

I guess it's been postulated before, but what if fAegon (or real Aegon - it doesn't matter) and Cercei come to a political resolution via marriage to solve his invasion of Westeros, considering the imminent threat of Dany?

Firstly, I think fAegon (or Aegon) represents Perkin Warbeck in GRRM's historical mining of material. The real Perkin Warbeck is

- Richard Duke of York, youngest of the two princes in the tower, presumed to have been murdered by Richard III, but has escaped somehow

- or a reasonable substitute has been found and trained

- vs, in book, the many baby swapping theories...

Secondly, fAegon is clearly, then, to have a greater claim on the Iron Throne, and has invaded Westeros, unlike Dany, dawdling in Meeren, forever...

Thirdly, umm, stuff happens and the notion of a royal marriage between fAegon and Cercei occurs to create a unified realm, between Targs and Lannisters - thereby snuffing out other claimants, ie Dany, though she will be an interesting pretender. Stannis's position, assuming he lives after the battle of Winterfell, is more problematical, being the proper heir to an usurper against a "legitimate" restoration of the prior regime. 

 Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed the resemblance of Perkin Warbeck, and the Lambert youth whom also led rebellions based on his perpetration of Richard's cousin (?), Edward, which also ended with him being on the losing end and a confession of being an imposter.

 

As I've commented on numerous YT/GoT theory videos, stating that the whole Young Griff/Aegon/Rhaella/Elia story just reeks of "The Princes In The Tower"....Good thread.

[Corvo the Crow]

1 hour ago, RhaegoTheUnborn said:

 Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed the resemblance of Perkin Warbeck, and the Lambert youth whom also led rebellions based on his perpetration of Richard's cousin (?), Edward, which also ended with him being on the losing end and a confession of being an imposter.

 

As I've commented on numerous YT/GoT theory videos, stating that the whole Young Griff/Aegon/Rhaella/Elia story just reeks of "The Princes In The Tower"....Good thread.

Funnily enough, the world book says there were rumors of Walderan Tarbeck's grandson through his daughter Rohanne surviving. How far does the fAegon storyline go back in GRRM's mind? Perhaps it was supposed to be a return of Tarbeck and Reyne's (through the mother side) to cause trouble for the West but ultimately scrapped from the West and become a Targaryen one?

[falcotron]

4 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

In this tinfoil of yours, what prevents Dany from marrying Loras?  Because, you know, if Cersei is going to calaim the throne through her marriage to Robert then Margaery is ahead of her with not one but three marriages to three Baratheon kings. So obviously throne will pass on to Loras after Tommen. Garlan and Willas died in their and if anyone says "but Garlan is in KL" is a lying facelessmen conspiracist. That Garlan is Jaqaerys Hrakkar who is the kindly old men.

You're asking me to defend something I called "some crazy scenario" that nobody could take seriously (unless it happened in some Hollywood and/or Belfast production, maybe)? Well then: Obviously, the reason Loras can't inherit the throne is that it would seriously risk exposing his secret marriage to King Renly. He was waiting for Margy to become Queen after Tommen's death so she could issue a decree legalizing gay marriages and then abdicate in favor of her brother. And now that's obviously not going to happen, but once Olenna dies, he can visit a witch and speak to her ghost and she can tell him the new version of the plan. Also, of course, you're forgetting that the "Loras" Dany would be marrying is a Velaryon bastard, not the actual Loras, because he and Aurane switched places after the assault on Dragonstone, with Aurane pretending to be seriously-injured Loras and Loras pretending to be Aurane as a pirate king while really he's sailing the royal fleet to the ruins of Valyria to meet Daario who's actually Euron.

[Wild Bill]

9 hours ago, RhaegoTheUnborn said:

 Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed the resemblance of Perkin Warbeck, and the Lambert youth whom also led rebellions based on his perpetration of Richard's cousin (?), Edward, which also ended with him being on the losing end and a confession of being an imposter.

 

As I've commented on numerous YT/GoT theory videos, stating that the whole Young Griff/Aegon/Rhaella/Elia story just reeks of "The Princes In The Tower"....Good thread.

I probably should have taken "Perkin Warbeck" or some such as my nick, instead of my lame "Wild Bill"...

[Wild Bill]

5 hours ago, falcotron said:

You're asking me to defend something I called "some crazy scenario" that nobody could take seriously (unless it happened in some Hollywood and/or Belfast production, maybe)? Well then: Obviously, the reason Loras can't inherit the throne is that it would seriously risk exposing his secret marriage to King Renly. He was waiting for Margy to become Queen after Tommen's death so she could issue a decree legalizing gay marriages and then abdicate in favor of her brother. And now that's obviously not going to happen, but once Olenna dies, he can visit a witch and speak to her ghost and she can tell him the new version of the plan. Also, of course, you're forgetting that the "Loras" Dany would be marrying is a Velaryon bastard, not the actual Loras, because he and Aurane switched places after the assault on Dragonstone, with Aurane pretending to be seriously-injured Loras and Loras pretending to be Aurane as a pirate king while really he's sailing the royal fleet to the ruins of Valyria to meet Daario who's actually Euron.

You forgot the dog...

Btw, I think you have overlooked some obvious book material, I forget where, where Renly declares, "I shall be the King", and Loras follows with "and I shall be the Queen"...

[sorry, obscure 60's movie reference...]

[Ralphis Baratheon]

fAegon and Cersei's children would be very beautiful.

[falcotron]

2 hours ago, Wild Bill said:

Btw, I think you have overlooked some obvious book material, I forget where, where Renly declares, "I shall be the King", and Loras follows with "and I shall be the Queen"...

[sorry, obscure 60's movie reference...]

I'm seeing Gene Wilder, but I can't think of any details beyond that, and the harder I try, the harder it is to get the distracting image out of my head of Renly singing, "I, I will be king, and you, you will be queen," and Renly and Loras did beat them all, just for one day, but I don't think Bowie sang about shadow babies until a couple decades after that song.

[Aegon1FanBoy]

I know alot of fans don't like my boy Aegon but he has done nothing to deserve that 

[Ralphis Baratheon]

12 minutes ago, Aegon1FanBoy said:

I know alot of fans don't like my boy Aegon but he has done nothing to deserve that 

His cyvasse skills are middling at best. He is also a poor sport when playing said game.

[Aegon1FanBoy]

33 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

His cyvasse skills are middling at best. He is also a poor sport when playing said game.

So he should marry Cersei because he is a poor sport? Might as well pair her with Stannis

[Tygett Lannister]

On 10/5/2017 at 0:57 PM, Lord Varys said:

There is a chance that Aegon might marry Myrcella should she end up in his hands. She would both be a hostage against the Lannisters as well as a means to unite the claims and force everyone to seize hostilities. That could work rather nicely after Tommen is dead.

Such a scenario is actually pretty likely considering there is a decent chance that Lady Nym and her people - Myrcella included - might be captured by the Golden Company in the Stormlands, ending up as honored guest at Storm's End. Should Tommen before the final battle between him and Aegon takes place. Neither the Tyrells nor the Lannisters could really resist Aegon if Tommen's heir and successor is in Aegon's hands and has been made his wife. Aegon could even sweeten the deal by having them technically rule as joint rulers - which would be meaningless anyway, since Myrcella is still a minor.

And, of course, Myrcella would likely rather quickly suffer a mortal accident - like poor Queen Jaehaera did - once Aegon has consolidated his power. Aegon is not likely going to want to father children on the daughter of the Usurper (or Jaime/Cersei's bastard), not to mention that Jon Connington has sworn to end the bloodline of the Usurper.

Cersei would be a worse bride, considering her issues with the Dornishmen, not to mention that it should be exceedingly difficult for her to get pregnant. Aegon needs a legitimate heir. I could see something like that happen if there was no Dornish alliance in the making. But there is. If Arianne and the Dornish armies did - for some strange reason - not declare for Aegon and Mace ended up imprisoning Cersei for the murders of Pycelle and Kevan, with Aegon effectively liberating her after he takes the city such a development could make sense. Especially if the Tyrells end up being enemies of both Aegon and the Lannisters.

But in such a scenario Tommen and Myrcella would have to be dead at that point.

If he has her in his custody why would he bother to marry her when he can marry Arianne and get support of Dorne. With getting Dorne he will automatically get Myrcella.

[Wild Bill]

On 10/16/2017 at 1:37 AM, falcotron said:

I'm seeing Gene Wilder, but I can't think of any details beyond that, and the harder I try, the harder it is to get the distracting image out of my head of Renly singing, "I, I will be king, and you, you will be queen," and Renly and Loras did beat them all, just for one day, but I don't think Bowie sang about shadow babies until a couple decades after that song.

I just listened to Blondie's cover of Heroes, back to back with the Bowie original, which is instructive... And disturbing, since it might open new interpretations of grrm's work.

Robert Fripp is clearly the continuity that links all things to David Bowie's themes, representing... The entire ASOAIF... And, aside, a good bit of whimsy in reference to Start the Revolution Without Me. Not that we cannot be heroes!

It is interesting that Blondie flips "I could be King, and you could be Queen", with "I could be Queen and you could be King".  A foretelling?

Then there are multiple references to Dolphins, with the obvious reference to David Brin's Uplift saga and Patchface's stuff, though I imagine they are spurious. 

[a bit of blather... :)]