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The Grey King, Ygg, and Nagga's living fire.


AlaskanSandman

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A Feast for Crows - The Drowned Man

As he strode across the strand, a drowned man returning from a call of nature stumbled into him in the darkness. "Damphair," he murmured. Aeron laid a hand upon his head, blessed him, and moved on. The ground rose beneath his feet, gently at first, then more steeply. When he felt scrub grass between his toes, he knew that he had left the strand behind. Slowly he climbed, listening to the waves. The sea is never weary. I must be as tireless.
On the crown of the hill four-and-forty monstrous stone ribs rose from the earth like the trunks of great pale trees. The sight made Aeron's heart beat faster. Nagga had been the first sea dragon, the mightiest ever to rise from the waves. She fed on krakens and leviathans and drowned whole islands in her wrath, yet the Grey King had slain her and the Drowned God had changed her bones to stone so that men might never cease to wonder at the courage of the first of kings. Nagga's ribs became the beams and pillars of his longhall, just as her jaws became his throne. For a thousand years and seven he reigned here, Aeron recalled. Here he took his mermaid wife and planned his wars against the Storm God. From here he ruled both stone and salt, wearing robes of woven seaweed and a tall pale crown made from Nagga's teeth.
But that was in the dawn of days, when mighty men still dwelt on earth and sea. The hall had been warmed by Nagga's living fire, which the Grey King had made his thrall. On its walls hung tapestries woven from silver seaweed most pleasing to the eyes. The Grey King's warriors had feasted on the bounty of the sea at a table in the shape of a great starfish, whilst seated upon thrones carved from mother-of-pearl. Gone, all the glory gone. Men were smaller now. Their lives had grown short. The Storm God drowned Nagga's fire after the Grey King's death, the chairs and tapestries had been stolen, the roof and walls had rotted away. Even the Grey King's great throne of fangs had been swallowed by the sea. Only Nagga's bones endured to remind the ironborn of all the wonder that had been.
 
The deeds attributed to the Grey King by the priests and singers of the Iron Islands are many and marvelous. It was the Grey King who brought fire to the earth by taunting the Storm God until he lashed down with a thunderbolt, setting a tree ablaze. The Grey King also taught men to weave nets and sails and carved the first longship from the hard pale wood of Ygg, a demon tree who fed on human flesh.
The Grey King's greatest feat, however, was the slaying of Nagga, largest of the sea dragons, a beast so colossal that she was said to feed on leviathans and giant krakens and drown whole islands in her wroth. The Grey King built a mighty longhall about her bones, using her ribs as beams and rafters. From there he ruled the Iron Islands for a thousand years, until his very skin had turned as grey as his hair and beard. Only then did he cast aside his driftwood crown and walk into the sea, descending to the Drowned God's watery halls to take his rightful place at his right hand.
The Grey King was king over all the Iron Islands, but he left a hundred sons behind him, and upon his death they began to quarrel over who would succeed him. Brother killed brother in an orgy of kinslaying until only sixteen remained. These last survivors divided up the islands between them. All the great houses of the ironborn claim descent from the Grey King and his sons save, curiously, the Goodbrothers of Old Wyk and Great Wyk, who supposedly derive from the Grey King's leal eldest brother.

 

 
Ok, so i wanna start breaking down all the myths and looking at what they're saying. No real world analogs, only what the text says.
 
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A Dance with Dragons - Jaime I

Blackwood's solar was on the second floor of a cavernous timber keep. There was a fire burning in the hearth when they entered. The room was large and airy, with great beams of dark oak supporting the high ceiling. Woolen tapestries covered the walls, and a pair of wide latticework doors looked out upon the godswood. Through their thick, diamond-shaped panes of yellow glass Jaime glimpsed the gnarled limbs of the tree from which the castle took its name. It was a weirwood ancient and colossal, ten times the size of the one in the Stone Garden at Casterly Rock. This tree was bare and dead, though.
"The Brackens poisoned it," said his host. "For a thousand years it has not shown a leaf. In another thousand it will have turned to stone, the maesters say. Weirwoods never rot."

 

  • Gave fire to man when he taunted the Storm God into lashing out with a lightening bolt that struck a tree. Ygg?
  • Made the first long ships from a pale demon tree named Ygg, said to feed on the flesh of humans.
  • Grey King's Hall. Made from the ribs of Nagga, the Sea Dragon. Was this really a sea dragon? or just a weirwood boat that had been over turned? The boat made from Ygg who was killed by a lightening bolt?
  • Nagga's living fire lit the Grey King's Hall.

Now here we have right off the bat some very interesting stuff. One the most well known probably is the idea that the Grey King killed Ygg else where and sailed to Westeros on that boat. 

The next is that fact that Ygg=Weirwood tree=Sea Dragon.  So we have a link from the Old Gods to Dragons. A dragon born of the Trees.

Then there is Nagga's living fire, also born of Ygg, the weirwood trees. Is this Rhllor? Is this Rhllor's origins? Or is Rhllor the Storm God, and the Drowned God is the Great other, who seems to represent death in the Grey King's legend. Either way, we clearly have a magical fire born of the Weirwood Trees, with a prior nod to Dragons born of the Weirwood Trees.

Next id like to talk about 44 of Nagga's ribs. Which sounds like a large weirwood grove. In a separate, seemingly unrelated legend. A man who has 44 sons promised kingdoms in a distant land. To which there are 44 islands that make up the Iron Islands. Hugor of the Hill. Oh whom ill cover more in another thread. Let me just say though of Hugor's Hill. That Mother Mountain, now an island alone in the Grass Sea, was once an island alone in the Silver Sea. Hugor's Hill? Azor Ahai-Huzhor Amai-Hugor-Hukko. It's almost as if separate parts of the same legend are being told by different cultures changing the phonetics of the name slightly as it goes. Ill be touching on these more later. 

Importantly here is the Fire and Dragon's born of the Weirwood Trees.

 

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Yes, I agree the Nagga's ribs are what remain of a massive weirwood grove not unlike the grove at High Heart with it's crown of thirty some trees.  I'm also reminded of the weirwood at Whitetree with it's mouth that receives burnt offerings and is large enough to consume a sheep. Longhouses are built around it.  So perhaps there was a tree of that type in the Grey King's grove as well and Nagga was the greenseer of some monstrous weirwood who was given burnt offerings like the tree at Whitetree.

The drowned god may be a greenseer if you interpret Patchface's under-the-sea jingles to mean a sea of trees, where greenseers reside beneath the sea.  The mermaids of the story may be the cotf and taking a mermaid wife akin to being wed to a weirwood tree.

The deeds attributed to the Grey King by the priests and singers of the Iron Islands are many and marvelous  

Singers is a euphamism for the CotF.

The question of captured fire is a good one.  The lightening struck tree comes up in the prologue of GoT and later in Jon's pov when he comes across a lightning stuck chestnut overgrown with white roses.  

How is Beric Dondarrion, the lightning lord, brought back to life at High Heart when the Ghost of High Heart tells Thoros that his god (R'hllor) has no power there?  Do the weirwoods retain a memory of fire, something a greenseer can use?  This doesn't seem to have anything to do with R'hllor although Thoros is used in some way to resurrect Beric.   Beric remembers the taste of ash (burned wood?) in his mouth.   

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6 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

 

 
Ok, so i wanna start breaking down all the myths and looking at what they're saying. No real world analogs, only what the text says.
 
 
  • Gave fire to man when he taunted the Storm God into lashing out with a lightening bolt that struck a tree. Ygg?
  • Made the first long ships from a pale demon tree named Ygg, said to feed on the flesh of humans.
  • Grey King's Hall. Made from the ribs of Nagga, the Sea Dragon. Was this really a sea dragon? or just a weirwood boat that had been over turned? The boat made from Ygg who was killed by a lightening bolt?
  • Nagga's living fire lit the Grey King's Hall.

Now here we have right off the bat some very interesting stuff. One the most well known probably is the idea that the Grey King killed Ygg else where and sailed to Westeros on that boat. 

The next is that fact that Ygg=Weirwood tree=Sea Dragon.  So we have a link from the Old Gods to Dragons. A dragon born of the Trees.

Then there is Nagga's living fire, also born of Ygg, the weirwood trees. Is this Rhllor? Is this Rhllor's origins? Or is Rhllor the Storm God, and the Drowned God is the Great other, who seems to represent death in the Grey King's legend. Either way, we clearly have a magical fire born of the Weirwood Trees, with a prior nod to Dragons born of the Weirwood Trees.

Next id like to talk about 44 of Nagga's ribs. Which sounds like a large weirwood grove. In a separate, seemingly unrelated legend. A man who has 44 sons promised kingdoms in a distant land. To which there are 44 islands that make up the Iron Islands. Hugor of the Hill. Oh whom ill cover more in another thread. Let me just say though of Hugor's Hill. That Mother Mountain, now an island alone in the Grass Sea, was once an island alone in the Silver Sea. Hugor's Hill? Azor Ahai-Huzhor Amai-Hugor-Hukko. It's almost as if separate parts of the same legend are being told by different cultures changing the phonetics of the name slightly as it goes. Ill be touching on these more later. 

Importantly here is the Fire and Dragon's born of the Weirwood Trees.

 

From Driftwood Crowns, TWOIAF...

Quote

The deeds attributed to the Grey King by the priests and singers of the Iron Islands are many and marvelous. It was the Grey King who brought fire to the earth by taunting the Storm God until he lashed down with a thunderbolt, setting a tree ablaze. The Grey King also taught men to weave nets and sails and carved the first longship from the hard pale wood of Ygg, a demon tree who fed on human flesh. 

Ygg is most obviously a weirwood, and clearly, the original Ironmen practiced human sacrifice to the Grey King, just like the First Men did in the North. Ygg is surely an allusion to Yggdrasil. From Wikipedia... “The cosmology of Norse mythology has "nine homeworlds" or "nine realms", unified by the world tree Yggdrasil. ... The Norse creation myth tells how everything came into existence in the gap between fire and ice, and how the gods shaped the homeworld of humans.” 

Nagga's Ribs was magical and sacred place...

Quote

On the crown of the hill four-and-forty monstrous stone ribs rose from the earth like the trunks of great pale trees. The sight made Aeron's heart beat faster. Nagga had been the first sea dragon, the mightiest ever to rise from the waves. She fed on krakens and leviathans and drowned whole islands in her wrath, yet the Grey King had slain her and the Drowned God had changed her bones to stone so that men might never cease to wonder at the courage of the first of kings. Nagga's ribs became the beams and pillars of his longhall, just as her jaws became his throne. For a thousand years and seven he reigned here, Aeron recalled. Here he took his mermaid wife and planned his wars against the Storm God. From here he ruled both stone and salt, wearing robes of woven seaweed and a tall pale crown made from Nagga's teeth. 

The Drowned Man, Feast 19

The number 44 seems to have a sacred connotation. A septry in the Riverlands maintained 44 brothers before the War of the Five Kings. Arya VII, Storm 39. The Eldest Brother counted 44 namedays. Brienne VI, Feast 31. Hugor of the Hill was given 44 sons with the girl brought forth by the Maid. Tyrion II, Dance 5.

The legend of the Grey King slaying Nagga masks, or explains, how the weirwoods petrified into stone. It also shows the Grey King defeating death. Since Nagga is a sea dragon, we can assume that Nagga lives under the sea. Since the sea and man's struggle upon it often symbolizes life in literature, under the sea can symbolize death. If that is the George's understanding, then the Grey King has defeated death from the sea. 

The Grey King is said to have reigned from the ribs of Nagga for a thousand years and seven. We will learn that greenseers live extended, fading lives once they wed the weirwoods, and the author will associate “a thousand” with Bloodraven, the last greenseer.

Note that the Grey King fought the Storm God. This echoes Bloodraven’s fight against the Others, the Lord of Light’s eternal struggle with the Great Other, and the Old Man of the River's fight against the Crab King. 

And note that the Grey King wore a crown of weirwood branches. We will recall this when we first meet Bloodraven.

Quote

But that was in the dawn of days, when mighty men still dwelt on earth and sea. The hall had been warmed by Nagga's living fire, which the Grey King had made his thrall. ... The Storm God drowned Nagga's fire after the Grey King's death, the chairs and tapestries had been stolen, the roof and walls had rotted away. Even the Grey King's great throne of fangs had been swallowed by the sea. Only Nagga's bones endured to remind the ironborn of all the wonder that had been. 

The Drowned Man, Feast 19

Note that the hall had been warmed by Nagga’s living fire, and the Grey King used that fire, presumably to fight the Storm God, which drowned Nagga’s fire after the Grey King died. This blends the religion of the Drowned God and the Lord of Light with what we actually learn to be the struggle between the greenseers and the Others. 

I have some more ideas about this here

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6 hours ago, LynnS said:

Yes, I agree the Nagga's ribs are what remain of a massive weirwood grove not unlike the grove at High Heart with it's crown of thirty some trees.  I'm also reminded of the weirwood at Whitetree with it's mouth that receives burnt offerings and is large enough to consume a sheep. Longhouses are built around it.  So perhaps there was a tree of that type in the Grey King's grove as well and Nagga was the greenseer of some monstrous weirwood who was given burnt offerings like the tree at Whitetree.

The drowned god may be a greenseer if you interpret Patchface's under-the-sea jingles to mean a sea of trees, where greenseers reside beneath the sea.  The mermaids of the story may be the cotf and taking a mermaid wife akin to being wed to a weirwood tree.

The deeds attributed to the Grey King by the priests and singers of the Iron Islands are many and marvelous  

Singers is a euphamism for the CotF.

The question of captured fire is a good one.  The lightening struck tree comes up in the prologue of GoT and later in Jon's pov when he comes across a lightning stuck chestnut overgrown with white roses.  

How is Beric Dondarrion, the lightning lord, brought back to life at High Heart when the Ghost of High Heart tells Thoros that his god (R'hllor) has no power there?  Do the weirwoods retain a memory of fire, something a greenseer can use?  This doesn't seem to have anything to do with R'hllor although Thoros is used in some way to resurrect Beric.   Beric remembers the taste of ash (burned wood?) in his mouth.   

The George has compared the Others to the Sidhe of Irish folklore. According to such folklore, the splits in a tree caused by lightning strikes can serve as pathways to the world of the Sidhe. White is often used to symbolize purity and innocence. We learn in Clash that Craster gives his sons to the Others, and in Storm, apparently, that those boys become Others.

Now, check this out from Jon III, Clash as Jon and the Nights Watch approach Craster's Keep,

Quote

As he rode past a lightning-blasted chestnut tree overgrown with wild white roses, he heard something rustling in the underbrush. 

It turns out to be Dywen and Grenn, who have been screening the main column as outriders, and Dywen tells Jon...

Quote

"Thought me and the boy had us one o' them Others to deal with."

 

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1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:
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As he rode past a lightning-blasted chestnut tree overgrown with wild white roses, he heard something rustling in the underbrush. 

It turns out to be Dywen and Grenn, who have been screening the main column as outriders, and Dywen tells Jon...

Quote

"Thought me and the boy had us one o' them Others to deal with."

And this:

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Prologue

He found what was left of the sword a few feet away, the end splintered and twisted like a tree struck by lightning. Will knelt, looked around warily, and snatched it up. The broken sword would be his proof. Gared would know what to make of it, and if not him, then surely that old bear Mormont or Maester Aemon. Would Gared still be waiting with the horses? He had to hurry.

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, LynnS said:

Yes, I agree the Nagga's ribs are what remain of a massive weirwood grove not unlike the grove at High Heart with it's crown of thirty some trees.  I'm also reminded of the weirwood at Whitetree with it's mouth that receives burnt offerings and is large enough to consume a sheep. Longhouses are built around it.  So perhaps there was a tree of that type in the Grey King's grove as well and Nagga was the greenseer of some monstrous weirwood who was given burnt offerings like the tree at Whitetree.

The drowned god may be a greenseer if you interpret Patchface's under-the-sea jingles to mean a sea of trees, where greenseers reside beneath the sea.  The mermaids of the story may be the cotf and taking a mermaid wife akin to being wed to a weirwood tree.

The deeds attributed to the Grey King by the priests and singers of the Iron Islands are many and marvelous  

Singers is a euphamism for the CotF.

The question of captured fire is a good one.  The lightening struck tree comes up in the prologue of GoT and later in Jon's pov when he comes across a lightning stuck chestnut overgrown with white roses.  

How is Beric Dondarrion, the lightning lord, brought back to life at High Heart when the Ghost of High Heart tells Thoros that his god (R'hllor) has no power there?  Do the weirwoods retain a memory of fire, something a greenseer can use?  This doesn't seem to have anything to do with R'hllor although Thoros is used in some way to resurrect Beric.   Beric remembers the taste of ash (burned wood?) in his mouth.   

Nice catch!! 

Yes there seems to be a hints that the power of fire takes its roots from the trees, both of which require blood to make them work also

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11 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

From Driftwood Crowns, TWOIAF...

Ygg is most obviously a weirwood, and clearly, the original Ironmen practiced human sacrifice to the Grey King, just like the First Men did in the North. Ygg is surely an allusion to Yggdrasil. From Wikipedia... “The cosmology of Norse mythology has "nine homeworlds" or "nine realms", unified by the world tree Yggdrasil. ... The Norse creation myth tells how everything came into existence in the gap between fire and ice, and how the gods shaped the homeworld of humans.” 

Nagga's Ribs was magical and sacred place...

The Drowned Man, Feast 19

The number 44 seems to have a sacred connotation. A septry in the Riverlands maintained 44 brothers before the War of the Five Kings. Arya VII, Storm 39. The Eldest Brother counted 44 namedays. Brienne VI, Feast 31. Hugor of the Hill was given 44 sons with the girl brought forth by the Maid. Tyrion II, Dance 5.

The legend of the Grey King slaying Nagga masks, or explains, how the weirwoods petrified into stone. It also shows the Grey King defeating death. Since Nagga is a sea dragon, we can assume that Nagga lives under the sea. Since the sea and man's struggle upon it often symbolizes life in literature, under the sea can symbolize death. If that is the George's understanding, then the Grey King has defeated death from the sea. 

The Grey King is said to have reigned from the ribs of Nagga for a thousand years and seven. We will learn that greenseers live extended, fading lives once they wed the weirwoods, and the author will associate “a thousand” with Bloodraven, the last greenseer.

Note that the Grey King fought the Storm God. This echoes Bloodraven’s fight against the Others, the Lord of Light’s eternal struggle with the Great Other, and the Old Man of the River's fight against the Crab King. 

And note that the Grey King wore a crown of weirwood branches. We will recall this when we first meet Bloodraven.

The Drowned Man, Feast 19

Note that the hall had been warmed by Nagga’s living fire, and the Grey King used that fire, presumably to fight the Storm God, which drowned Nagga’s fire after the Grey King died. This blends the religion of the Drowned God and the Lord of Light with what we actually learn to be the struggle between the greenseers and the Others. 

I have some more ideas about this here

 Said no real world analogs and only text.

I would actually call it a "sea" dragon simply cause it was built into a boat. Pretty simple. The bigger point is the metaphor of Dragons born out of the trees.

Not really, as the Storm God seems to be Rhllor or Light, as he sent the lightening bolt. The Drowned God is Death. The Drowned God vs the Storm God is a better fit id say.

Assumption. Both gods Storm God and Drowned God sound to have control over water. So not so black and white really. 

Id disagree with the last assertion, especially since the Others are likely greenseers any ways. 

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7 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

 Said no real world analogs and only text.

I would actually call it a "sea" dragon simply cause it was built into a boat. Pretty simple. The bigger point is the metaphor of Dragons born out of the trees.

Not really, as the Storm God seems to be Rhllor or Light, as he sent the lightening bolt. The Drowned God is Death. The Drowned God vs the Storm God is a better fit id say.

Assumption. Both gods Storm God and Drowned God sound to have control over water. So not so black and white really. 

Id disagree with the last assertion, especially since the Others are likely greenseers any ways. 

 

Who is what god is pretty complicated.  Crows are associated with greenseeing and are the servants of the storm god.  But the Grey King is also clearly a greenseer.   Of all the folks from the age of heroes, I think the Grey King is the most Azor Ahai like.  I would connect him to the Red god.  Although like you said, not black and white because he also has a lord of darkness and the dead feel.   Storm god has fire, GK steals it, by the end both are fiery.  

 

Personally, I think the Others are akin to whatever the storm god is after a transformation of some kind, possibly after having their fire taken away.  The Other in the prologue's lazy parry is a lightening bolt strike that turns Waymar's sword into a tree struck by lightening.  

 

You shouldn't limit yourself with avoiding myth.  You need it to solve some of this stuff.  

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A Feast for Crows - The Drowned Man

On the crown of the hill four-and-forty monstrous stone ribs rose from the earth like the trunks of great pale trees. The sight made Aeron's heart beat faster. Nagga had been the first sea dragon, the mightiest ever to rise from the waves. She fed on krakens and leviathans and drowned whole islands in her wrath, yet the Grey King had slain her and the Drowned God had changed her bones to stone so that men might never cease to wonder at the courage of the first of kings. Nagga's ribs became the beams and pillars of his longhall, just as her jaws became his throne. For a thousand years and seven he reigned here, Aeron recalled. Here he took his mermaid wife and planned his wars against the Storm God. From here he ruled both stone and salt, wearing robes of woven seaweed and a tall pale crown made from Nagga's teeth.

Nagga sounds a bit like a volcanic sea mount; "the mightiest ever to rise from the waves."  

The descriptions of changing bones to stone (storm quenching the fires)  and living inside Nagga, making her into longhall etc., sounds like Dragonstone.

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Davos V

He raised his eyes to gaze up at the walls. In place of merlons, a thousand grotesques and gargoyles looked down on him, each different from all the others; wyverns, griffins, demons, manticores, minotaurs, basilisks, hellhounds, cockatrices, and a thousand queerer creatures sprouted from the castle's battlements as if they'd grown there. And the dragons were everywhere. The Great Hall was a dragon lying on its belly. Men entered through its open mouth. The kitchens were a dragon curled up in a ball, with the smoke and steam of the ovens vented through its nostrils. The towers were dragons hunched above the walls or poised for flight; the Windwyrm seemed to scream defiance, while Sea Dragon Tower gazed serenely out across the waves. Smaller dragons framed the gates. Dragon claws emerged from walls to grasp at torches, great stone wings enfolded the smith and armory, and tails formed arches, bridges, and exterior stairs.

Davos had often heard it said that the wizards of Valyria did not cut and chisel as common masons did, but worked stone with fire and magic as a potter might work clay. But now he wondered. What if they were real dragons, somehow turned to stone?

Dragonstone is a volcanic sea mount that is always warm because of the lava chambers below.
 

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Davos III

But Davos could not complain of chill. The smooth stony passages beneath the great mass of Dragonstone were always warm, and Davos had often heard it said they grew warmer the farther down one went. He was well below the castle, he judged, and the wall of his cell often felt warm to his touch when he pressed a palm against it. Perhaps the old tales were true, and Dragonstone was built with the stones of hell.

 

So I think the story of the Grey King might find some insight or parallels to Melisandre who wants to wake the great stone dragon.  Volcanos seem to be tied to the sorcery and magic of dragonlore and R'hllor given Moqorro's story of the Doom.

If Dragonstone is a sea mount or sea dragon; does this have any implications for the House of Undying riddle: three fires you must light and three mounts you must ride? 

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion VIII

"Fourteen or fourteen thousand. What man dares count them? It is not wise for mortals to look too deeply at those fires, my friend. Those are the fires of god's own wrath, and no human flame can match them. We are small creatures, men."

"Some smaller than others." Valyria. It was written that on the day of Doom every hill for five hundred miles had split asunder to fill the air with ash and smoke and fire, blazes so hot and hungry that even the dragons in the sky were engulfed and consumed. Great rents had opened in the earth, swallowing palaces, temples, entire towns. Lakes boiled or turned to acid, mountains burst, fiery fountains spewed molten rock a thousand feet into the air, red clouds rained down dragonglass and the black blood of demons, and to the north the ground splintered and collapsed and fell in on itself and an angry sea came rushing in. The proudest city in all the world was gone in an instant, its fabled empire vanished in a day, the Lands of the Long Summer scorched and drowned and blighted.

An empire built on blood and fire. The Valyrians reaped the seed they had sown. "Does our captain mean to test the curse?"

Quote

 

A Storm of Swords - Davos II

Davos shook his head. "I will be fine. Tell me, Salla, I must know. No one but Melisandre?"

The Lyseni gave him a long doubtful look, and continued reluctantly. "The guards keep all others away, even his queen and his little daughter. Servants bring meals that no one eats." He leaned forward and lowered his voice. "Queer talking I have heard, of hungry fires within the mountain, and how Stannis and the red woman go down together to watch the flames. There are shafts, they say, and secret stairs down into the mountain's heart, into hot places where only she may walk unburned. It is enough and more to give an old man such terrors that sometimes he can scarcely find the strength to eat."

 

The Grey King seems to be a greenseer allied with the CotF, the mermaids:

Quote

Here he took his mermaid wife and planned his wars against the Storm God. From here he ruled both stone and salt, wearing robes of woven seaweed and a tall pale crown made from Nagga's teeth.

The Iron Islands appear to be the remnants of a sea mount; the drowned god seems to be a euphamism for greenseer.  Bran and Bloodraven are both drowned gods living under the sea crowned by weirwoods above... Nagga's teeth.

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Victarion I

"Your Drowned God is a demon," the black priest Moqorro said afterward. "He is no more than a thrall of the Other, the dark god whose name must not be spoken."

Euron is the drowned crow/drowned god seen in a dream by the Ghost of High Heart.   He is the threat Moqorro sees in his flames: a tall and twisted thing with ten long arms and one dark eye.  The question is: who is the dark god whose name must not be spoken.   Euron is his thrall.

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Davos V

Warrior, make me brave. "I know little of dragons and less of gods . . . but the queen spoke of curses. No man is as cursed as the kinslayer, in the eyes of gods and men."

"There are no gods save R'hllor and the Other, whose name must not be spoken." Melisandre's mouth made a hard red line. "And small men curse what they cannot understand."

On this Moqorro and Melisandre agree.  Which might say something about why Euron's ship is the Silence, his masthead, a woman with no mouth and why he cuts out the tongues of all the wizards bound to him.

What happens if the name is spoken?  Does this have anything to do with the Faceless Men?

Quote

 Clash of Kings - Arya IX

"The hungry gods will feast on blood tonight, if a man would do this thing," Jaqen said. "Sweet girl, kind and gentle. Unsay one name and say another and cast this mad dream aside."

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A Clash of Kings - Arya IX

"Speak the name, and death will come. On the morrow, at the turn of the moon, a year from this day, it will come. A man does not fly like a bird, but one foot moves and then another and one day a man is there, and a king dies." He knelt beside her, so they were face-to-face. "A girl whispers if she fears to speak aloud. Whisper it now. Is it Joffrey?"

Arya put her lips to his ear. "It's Jaqen H'ghar."

 

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On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 5:45 AM, AlaskanSandman said:

 

  • Gave fire to man when he taunted the Storm God into lashing out with a lightening bolt that struck a tree. Ygg?
  • Made the first long ships from a pale demon tree named Ygg, said to feed on the flesh of humans.
  • Grey King's Hall. Made from the ribs of Nagga, the Sea Dragon. Was this really a sea dragon? or just a weirwood boat that had been over turned? The boat made from Ygg who was killed by a lightening bolt?
  • Nagga's living fire lit the Grey King's Hall.

The next is that fact that Ygg=Weirwood tree=Sea Dragon.  So we have a link from the Old Gods to Dragons. A dragon born of the Trees.

Then there is Nagga's living fire, also born of Ygg, the weirwood trees. Is this Rhllor? Is this Rhllor's origins? Or is Rhllor the Storm God, and the Drowned God is the Great other, who seems to represent death in the Grey King's legend. Either way, we clearly have a magical fire born of the Weirwood Trees, with a prior nod to Dragons born of the Weirwood Trees.

Importantly here is the Fire and Dragon's born of the Weirwood Trees.

 

On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 6:29 AM, LynnS said:

How is Beric Dondarrion, the lightning lord, brought back to life at High Heart when the Ghost of High Heart tells Thoros that his god (R'hllor) has no power there?  Do the weirwoods retain a memory of fire, something a greenseer can use?  This doesn't seem to have anything to do with R'hllor although Thoros is used in some way to resurrect Beric.   Beric remembers the taste of ash (burned wood?) in his mouth.   

The Grey King and all of the stories of the Ironborn are variations on the other in-story legends we have been trying to sort out, I suspect. I have a couple or three ideas that may help to decode them or may just make things more complex.

Thoros of Myr and Jorah Mormont were the first men over the wall of Pyke in the Siege of Pyke. If you substitute Pyke for the hall of the Grey King, this puts Thoros in a special position of being the R'hllor priest (fire) breaching the "belly" of Nagga. Theon's brother, Maron, was killed when the wall fell on him. The grandson of Old Nan was also killed on the wall that day.

If the castle of the Ironborn ruler is a symbolic dragon, isn't it interesting that Jorah Mormont is also present* when Dany's dragons are born in fire in the Dothraki Sea. Like Maron and old Nan's grandson, Drogo and Dany's baby Rhaego die that day. Jorah and Dany see the shadows on the walls of the tent before the deaths / births in the pyre.

Perhaps it's a coincidence, but Jorah's father, Jeor dies on the same day at the same place as Craster - Mormont is stabbed in the belly and Craster has his throat slashed. (In ASOIAF, stabbing in the belly is the male equivalent of childbirth, I have pretty much decided.) Craster is the son of a woman from the wildling village of Whitetree, where Jon saw the two burned skulls in the "mouth" of the giant weirwood tree.

If these three parallels are truly related, they again link the hall of the Grey King, the dragon and the weirwood, as you noted in the OP. But add in some "only death can pay for life" symbolism and something important about breaching walls and childbirth. The lightning / flaming sword symbolism is also tied in - the comet (last seen in the books during Jon's ranging beyond the Wall, just before finding the dragonglass cache) and Dany's dragons are part of that symbolism as well.

I suspect we will also have to examine what is known about Jorah selling the poachers (=hunters) into slavery and the "hunting" scene where Theon saves Bran by skillfully shooting the deserter / wildling "outlaw" with an arrow. Robb says he shouldn't have taken the risky shot but, in fact, Theon saved the day. Also notable in that scene: Grey Wind kills a guy named Wallen and Summer cuts open the belly of a woman named Hali. (Hall and Wall again?)

And this brings us to Osha whose name, Theon observes at one point, sounds like Asha. So we're back to the Ironborn and their lore. Asha's husband is an axe and her suckling babe is a dirk, she tells Theon when she embarrasses him at the Ironborn feast. Jeor Mormont gives Craster an axe (which is on the table when the two men are killed by the mutineers) and the Night's Watch deserter named Dirk (Asha's symbolic son?) is the one who kills Craster. (Ollo Lophand - a symbolic Jaime? - kills Mormont.) The Asha / Osha connection may tie into the taste of ash in Dondarrion's mouth and the burned skulls in the mouth of the weirwood at the village of Whitetree. Childbirth is part of the milieu again because Gilly has just given birth to her baby, who will be known as monster. The paired deaths of Craster and Mormont are similar, in my mind, to the jumble of NW deserters and wildlings who threaten Bran in the wolf's wood, and who are killed by Grey Wind, Summer and Theon.

Even dragonglass is part of the parallel, as Mormont gives Sam a little homily on the purpose of obsidian just before he dies, reminding him that it is for fighting the Others. The volcanic origin of the rock ties into other comments in this thread about volcanic activity associated with Nagga.

Interestingly, Craster's Keep is notable for having really bad defensive walls. In fact, Jon observes that there are almost no walls around the compound (just an earthen dyke) and that is seems to be built on a mound of shit, with a rivulet of shit flowing down the side. So there is no wall to breach there. (In an earlier chapter at Craster's Keep, however, Jon "hatches" from his special, self-made Night's Watch / Stark / Targ egg after throwing his black cloak over a rock where it freezes in the rain overnight. Jon is curled up sleeping under the cloak with Ghost and a fire. As at Whitewalls in the Dunk & Egg story, a dragon "hatches" from the egg when Jon emerges from the frozen cloak, waking up to a magical world covered in ice.)

*I know this is getting a little long, but Jorah is also present when the ship Selaesori Qhoran breaks up - another hatching egg. I think he is mostly in his "berth" - the breaking up of the ship and this berth may be the "stabbed in the belly / birth" symbolism in this parallel to the pattern. The slavers boarding the ship may be like Thoros and Jorah going over the wall at Pyke, except this time Jorah is the one who is conquered and becomes a slave; the red priest Moqorro (= the red priest Thoros?) went overboard without Jorah.

At any rate, I think it's safe to say that there is a pattern of sacrificial death paired with birth or "hatching dragon eggs" (breaching walls of a castle, ripping open a person's belly, opening a bundle of dragonglass, bringing fire to earth via storm god lightning, slaying yet using the fire and body of Nagga). The pattern of the resurrection, raised by @LynnS is not 100% clear in my mind - and maybe GRRM wants it that way. The Sailor's Wife tells Arya about the death and rebirth heads of the three-headed statue or three-turreted tower of Trios, but she can't remember the purpose of the second head.

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On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 6:29 AM, LynnS said:

The question of captured fire is a good one.  The lightening struck tree comes up in the prologue of GoT and later in Jon's pov when he comes across a lightning stuck chestnut overgrown with white roses.  

For what it's worth, I think this ties into the ashes / Asha / Osha symbolism that I mentioned earlier. The tree is covered with white flowers. When Theon and the Ironborn go over the walls at Winterfell, Osha emerges from the kitchen covered in white flour to greet the new lord.

In a flashback, we saw Jon playing around with the other Stark kids in the Winterfell crypt. He emerges from a tomb covered in flour, pretending to be a ghost. So the white flowers / flour ties into the direwolf Ghost. And I cited earlier the scene where Jon goes to sleep under a rock and his cloak with Ghost and a fire. When he emerges, he encounters Gilly, a symbolic Lyanna, who asks him to help her baby . . .

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On 5. 10. 2017 at 6:29 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

From Driftwood Crowns, TWOIAF...

Ygg is most obviously a weirwood, and clearly, the original Ironmen practiced human sacrifice to the Grey King, just like the First Men did in the North. Ygg is surely an allusion to Yggdrasil. From Wikipedia... “The cosmology of Norse mythology has "nine homeworlds" or "nine realms", unified by the world tree Yggdrasil. ... The Norse creation myth tells how everything came into existence in the gap between fire and ice, and how the gods shaped the homeworld of humans.” 

 

As a matter of fact, "Ygg" is one ofe Odin´s names, making it quite ironic that Ironborn have a demon of that name.  

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28 minutes ago, Rhodan said:

As a matter of fact, "Ygg" is one ofe Odin´s names, making it quite ironic that Ironborn have a demon of that name.  

Euron's personal sigil is also a motif for Odin or three-eyed crow.  Two crows above above a third eye.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Euronsigil1.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huginn_and_Muninn#/media/File:Odin_hrafnar.jpg

 

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This is why i opted to leave out metaphors to real world analogs or parallels. Other wise we'll be here for years finding links in all things to out side influences. There is alot of nods or influences that are obvious, but contradictory. Many people in the story for exp. can represent Lucifer, the fallen angle who gave the gift of knowledge to man but is ultimately known as the great evil for defying god. This could be the Grey King, or the Bloodstone Emperor for exp. And while i think there is likely a guy who was good, but became bad in our story. I dont need the real world parallel to get lost in just to figure this out. It just becomes a long round about of information that may or may not fit in the contrived way its being brought up in. I dont think people need to be aware of Norse mythology and their many unions of Ice and Fire, just to be able to solve Asoiaf. No matter how clever the nods are, or whether these nods are recognized or not. Albeit i find it interesting learning some mythology stuff i may not have known prior when some one brings up native beliefs or something, but now we're just spiraling even further down a rabbit hole. So now, not only do you have to be familiar with myths such as Atlantis, Noah, Lucifer, Odin, Arthur, and god knows what other European myths, but now i've gotta get familiar with asian, indian, and American indian myths now too or ill never figure out the story. Plus ive gotta be familiar with real history too cause obviously everything is a parallel to the War of the Roses or the 100 years war. It's just too much. 

Its not that im trying to be rude, or disregard peoples often intelligent thoughts on such myths, i just find it distracting from the actual text and in the end, unnecessary to resolving the text. I do enjoy others threads though where they express those kind of thoughts. 

In this thread though, i was simply hoping to make clear from the get go that i was hoping this could be a straight analyse of the text and what it means based on the world he created. No biggie though and im still reading all comments hahah :D Long as people are expressing ideas and being open minded then thats all that really matters, right? :)

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On 10/6/2017 at 11:16 AM, Seams said:

 

The Grey King and all of the stories of the Ironborn are variations on the other in-story legends we have been trying to sort out, I suspect. I have a couple or three ideas that may help to decode them or may just make things more complex.

Thoros of Myr and Jorah Mormont were the first men over the wall of Pyke in the Siege of Pyke. If you substitute Pyke for the hall of the Grey King, this puts Thoros in a special position of being the R'hllor priest (fire) breaching the "belly" of Nagga. Theon's brother, Maron, was killed when the wall fell on him. The grandson of Old Nan was also killed on the wall that day.

If the castle of the Ironborn ruler is a symbolic dragon, isn't it interesting that Jorah Mormont is also present* when Dany's dragons are born in fire in the Dothraki Sea. Like Maron and old Nan's grandson, Drogo and Dany's baby Rhaego die that day. Jorah and Dany see the shadows on the walls of the tent before the deaths / births in the pyre.

Perhaps it's a coincidence, but Jorah's father, Jeor dies on the same day at the same place as Craster - Mormont is stabbed in the belly and Craster has his throat slashed. (In ASOIAF, stabbing in the belly is the male equivalent of childbirth, I have pretty much decided.) Craster is the son of a woman from the wildling village of Whitetree, where Jon saw the two burned skulls in the "mouth" of the giant weirwood tree.

If these three parallels are truly related, they again link the hall of the Grey King, the dragon and the weirwood, as you noted in the OP. But add in some "only death can pay for life" symbolism and something important about breaching walls and childbirth. The lightning / flaming sword symbolism is also tied in - the comet (last seen in the books during Jon's ranging beyond the Wall, just before finding the dragonglass cache) and Dany's dragons are part of that symbolism as well.

I suspect we will also have to examine what is known about Jorah selling the poachers (=hunters) into slavery and the "hunting" scene where Theon saves Bran by skillfully shooting the deserter / wildling "outlaw" with an arrow. Robb says he shouldn't have taken the risky shot but, in fact, Theon saved the day. Also notable in that scene: Grey Wind kills a guy named Wallen and Summer cuts open the belly of a woman named Hali. (Hall and Wall again?)

And this brings us to Osha whose name, Theon observes at one point, sounds like Asha. So we're back to the Ironborn and their lore. Asha's husband is an axe and her suckling babe is a dirk, she tells Theon when she embarrasses him at the Ironborn feast. Jeor Mormont gives Craster an axe (which is on the table when the two men are killed by the mutineers) and the Night's Watch deserter named Dirk (Asha's symbolic son?) is the one who kills Craster. (Ollo Lophand - a symbolic Jaime? - kills Mormont.) The Asha / Osha connection may tie into the taste of ash in Dondarrion's mouth and the burned skulls in the mouth of the weirwood at the village of Whitetree. Childbirth is part of the milieu again because Gilly has just given birth to her baby, who will be known as monster. The paired deaths of Craster and Mormont are similar, in my mind, to the jumble of NW deserters and wildlings who threaten Bran in the wolf's wood, and who are killed by Grey Wind, Summer and Theon.

Even dragonglass is part of the parallel, as Mormont gives Sam a little homily on the purpose of obsidian just before he dies, reminding him that it is for fighting the Others. The volcanic origin of the rock ties into other comments in this thread about volcanic activity associated with Nagga.

Interestingly, Craster's Keep is notable for having really bad defensive walls. In fact, Jon observes that there are almost no walls around the compound (just an earthen dyke) and that is seems to be built on a mound of shit, with a rivulet of shit flowing down the side. So there is no wall to breach there. (In an earlier chapter at Craster's Keep, however, Jon "hatches" from his special, self-made Night's Watch / Stark / Targ egg after throwing his black cloak over a rock where it freezes in the rain overnight. Jon is curled up sleeping under the cloak with Ghost and a fire. As at Whitewalls in the Dunk & Egg story, a dragon "hatches" from the egg when Jon emerges from the frozen cloak, waking up to a magical world covered in ice.)

*I know this is getting a little long, but Jorah is also present when the ship Selaesori Qhoran breaks up - another hatching egg. I think he is mostly in his "berth" - the breaking up of the ship and this berth may be the "stabbed in the belly / birth" symbolism in this parallel to the pattern. The slavers boarding the ship may be like Thoros and Jorah going over the wall at Pyke, except this time Jorah is the one who is conquered and becomes a slave; the red priest Moqorro (= the red priest Thoros?) went overboard without Jorah.

At any rate, I think it's safe to say that there is a pattern of sacrificial death paired with birth or "hatching dragon eggs" (breaching walls of a castle, ripping open a person's belly, opening a bundle of dragonglass, bringing fire to earth via storm god lightning, slaying yet using the fire and body of Nagga). The pattern of the resurrection, raised by @LynnS is not 100% clear in my mind - and maybe GRRM wants it that way. The Sailor's Wife tells Arya about the death and rebirth heads of the three-headed statue or three-turreted tower of Trios, but she can't remember the purpose of the second head.

Im not ignoring your post hahah, just marinating on it haha actually on point but a lot to take in and consider :) Right of the bat though, those three heads. I cant help but feel thats important to the past legends also as it seems we're dealing with a group of three. Possibly two males and a female, forever at war for the female. As to the middle head and it's purpose is very intriguing. We have the Storm God and the Drowned God, and same parallels in the storm lands and three sisters, but always missing that third head. The dragon always has three heads. 

I mention here about the symbolism of Dragons and Magic Fire born out of the Trees. Note also that Daenerys see's a man wreathed in flames and a man in the shape of a wolf, present for the birthing of dragons. The Wolf being a clear nod to the Old Gods, the Trees, and Direwolves. So again, the Trees (Great Other? Drowned God) and magic fire (Rhllor? Storm God) linked with the birthing of dragons.

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On 10/6/2017 at 2:59 AM, Lost Melnibonean said:

The legend of the Grey King slaying Nagga masks, or explains, how the weirwoods petrified into stone. It also shows the Grey King defeating death. Since Nagga is a sea dragon, we can assume that Nagga lives under the sea. Since the sea and man's struggle upon it often symbolizes life in literature, under the sea can symbolize death. If that is the George's understanding, then the Grey King has defeated death from the sea. 

The Grey King is said to have reigned from the ribs of Nagga for a thousand years and seven. We will learn that greenseers live extended, fading lives once they wed the weirwoods, and the author will associate “a thousand” with Bloodraven, the last greenseer.

Note that the Grey King fought the Storm God. This echoes Bloodraven’s fight against the Others, the Lord of Light’s eternal struggle with the Great Other, and the Old Man of the River's fight against the Crab King. 

And note that the Grey King wore a crown of weirwood branches. We will recall this when we first meet Bloodraven.

The Drowned Man, Feast 19

Note that the hall had been warmed by Nagga’s living fire, and the Grey King used that fire, presumably to fight the Storm God, which drowned Nagga’s fire after the Grey King died. This blends the religion of the Drowned God and the Lord of Light with what we actually learn to be the struggle between the greenseers and the Others.

The sea in mythology represents the underworld or the unconcious, the place where the hero/heroine goes to process, navigate and have part of one's self die in order to return to the outer world. What manifests in this process is a person coming up to the surface, back to conciousness after a trial or transformation: from naivete to wisdom (or saying killing the boy to become the man). If Ygg is Yggdrisil the tree of life of Nordic mythology which lies between the gaps of Fire (thunder) and ice (sea), then perhaps the old Gods (Ygg) are the conduit between the Red God (Fire above - outer world) and The Great Other (Ice below - inner world).

Going below the sea is also a metaphor in mythology of cycling through the life-death-life cycle of what it means to exist. Relationships going through this process - for example where couples face an aspect of ugliness in the other and want to run away; but in order for there to be life there needs to be a small death within the psyche of the couple, say the death of a judgement, a viewpoint or an internal naive assumption, in order for the couple to come back together to the life part of the cycle better knowing one another.

The weirwoods have their roots in the underworld where transformation takes place. Their trunks and branches of the outer world, and products of their trunk and branches are used to carry the winds, the bows, the housing of animals and cotf.

The weirwoods, the oaken trees, the blackwoods, all exist as a means of balance, which when you think about it, is what the life force of nature is about.

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On 10/19/2017 at 6:57 PM, Weirwood Ghost said:

The sea in mythology represents the underworld or the unconcious, the place where the hero/heroine goes to process, navigate and have part of one's self die in order to return to the outer world. What manifests in this process is a person coming up to the surface, back to conciousness after a trial or transformation: from naivete to wisdom (or saying killing the boy to become the man). If Ygg is Yggdrisil the tree of life of Nordic mythology which lies between the gaps of Fire (thunder) and ice (sea), then perhaps the old Gods (Ygg) are the conduit between the Red God (Fire above - outer world) and The Great Other (Ice below - inner world).

Going below the sea is also a metaphor in mythology of cycling through the life-death-life cycle of what it means to exist. Relationships going through this process - for example where couples face an aspect of ugliness in the other and want to run away; but in order for there to be life there needs to be a small death within the psyche of the couple, say the death of a judgement, a viewpoint or an internal naive assumption, in order for the couple to come back together to the life part of the cycle better knowing one another.

The weirwoods have their roots in the underworld where transformation takes place. Their trunks and branches of the outer world, and products of their trunk and branches are used to carry the winds, the bows, the housing of animals and cotf.

The weirwoods, the oaken trees, the blackwoods, all exist as a means of balance, which when you think about it, is what the life force of nature is about.

 

Quote

 

The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Dawn Age

Maester Herryk's History of the Kings-Beyond-the-Wall, regarding the brothers Gendel and Gorne. They were called upon to mediate a dispute between a clan of children and a family of giants over the possession of a cavern. Gendel and Gorne, it is said, ultimately resolved the matter through trickery, making both sides disavow any desire for the cavern, after the brothers discovered it was a part of a greater chain of caverns that eventually passed beneath the Wall. 

 

 
 
I agree with what your saying and see the children as  possibly both sides, as their are apparently clans of CotF. Clans are typically a large group of family members. So their are different families of CotF. 
 

 

Quote

 

The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Dawn Age

Maester Kennet in the study of a barrow near the Long Lake—a giant's burial with obsidian arrowheads found amidst the extant ribs.

 

I very much think this is part of the Others creation as this may be the tomb of the First King, said to be a Giant. 
 

 

Quote

 

A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

That was in the dawn of days, when our sun was rising. Now it sinks, and this is our long dwindling. The giants are almost gone as well, they who were our bane and our brothers. 

 

 
The Giants who i think are CotF, just a different family possibly. Or quite possibly the result of CotF and the mysterious 3rd race of Sea creatures. Again though, the sea seems to be tied to the Children and their caves, so im once again inclined to go back to different clans of Children.
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I think Nagga's bones are a petrified weirwood grove as well. I think the Grey King's war with the Storm God was actually a war against the CotF. He supposedly cut down a heart tree, Ygg, and cutting down weirwoods was described as what started the war between the children and the First Men in the first place.

Quote

The Storm God drowned Nagga's fire after the Grey King's death, the chairs and tapestries had been stolen, the roof and walls had rotted away. Even the Grey King's great throne of fangs had been swallowed by the sea.

-AFfC The Drowned Man

The Storm God drowning out the Grey King's Hall could have been the CotF sending the Hammer of the Waters. Maybe Old Wyk and Great Wyk were once the same island until the Hammer of the Waters, hence both having the name "Wyk"? 

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5 hours ago, Fire Eater said:

I think Nagga's bones are a petrified weirwood grove as well. I think the Grey King's war with the Storm God was actually a war against the CotF. He supposedly cut down a heart tree, Ygg, and cutting down weirwoods was described as what started the war between the children and the First Men in the first place.

-AFfC The Drowned Man

The Storm God drowning out the Grey King's Hall could have been the CotF sending the Hammer of the Waters. Maybe Old Wyk and Great Wyk were once the same island until the Hammer of the Waters, hence both having the name "Wyk"? 

Agreed! Im trying to build up a big theory but it's taking alot of time. 

walrus-men-and-antler-men-the-old-way-and-the-new/

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Davos II

"King Renly's shade was seen as well," the captain said, "slaying right and left as he led the lion lord's van. It's said his green armor took a ghostly glow from the wildfire, and his antlers ran with golden flames."
Garth is the Grey King, the First King of Men who led his people via weirwood boats establishing the first cultures, The Walrus Men. Sea faring pirates that make up Houses Lannister, Hightower, Dayne, and the IronBorn to name a few. 
 
Garth changed at some time and began farming and changing the culture to that of a Land peoples. These are the Antler men. The Land Farmers. 
 
The Lion is associated with these sea faring peoples. Hence Lymond Hightower, the Sea Lion. 
 
Garth is Azor Ahai, the Grey King, who brought forth dragons and magic fire from the Weirwood Trees
 
Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Epilogue

Lannister spearmen in crimson cloaks and lion-crested halfhelms stood along the west wall of the throne room. Tyrell guards in green cloaks faced them from the opposite wall. The chill in the throne room was palpable.
Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Jon XII

"Their women were clad in sealskins , some with infants at their breasts. children shuffled along behind their mothers and looked up at Jon with eyes as dark and hard as the stones they clutched. Some of the men wore antlers on their hats, and some wore walrus tusks. The two sorts did not love each other, he soon gathered. A few thin reindeer brought up the rear, with the great dogs snapping at the heels of stragglers. “Be wary o’ that lot, Jon Snow,” Tormund warned him . “A savage folk. The men are bad, the women worse .”

 

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If you need an example of the Walrus Men settling down to become the Antler men, look no further than House Hoare of the Iron Islands who gave up their strength at sea to become a Land Power based around the God's Eye. Associated with the Green Men and the Green King of the God's Eye.

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