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Yukle

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22 hours ago, brook said:

Every time that this has come up in parliament since Howard first introduced his changes to the marriage act I was living in an area which returned the strongest no vote in the country. If what you say was even remotely true I'd gave expected to witness some of this nastiness, at least overhear a negative comment or two or get some kind of reaction when walking around hand in hand with my girlfriend.

Except this didn't happen. Because when people aren't being directly appealed to, when they aren't getting drowned in propaganda trying to influence a vote that they have been handed a personal and moral responsibility for most people simply did not care all that much.

By abdicating their responsibilities to appease the extremists in their party the government changed that. To add insult to injury by publishing the results at the level of detail they did they allowed me to see the *exact* percentage of my former neighbours, schoolfriends and colleagues who were willing to go to the effort of returning a form denying me the right to marry the woman I love. You might have seen the happy shiny pics of people celebrating the 'victory' I know for a fact I wasn't the only one who spent that day, and more than a few since, sobbing.

I currently live in an area that returned an 80% yes vote, I have a good life a wonderful partner and am surrounded by loving and supportive friends and family and this process left me emotionally devastated. I'm not even capable of imagining what it would have been like for the 17 year old kid still figuring herself out at a catholic school in western sydney that was me 20 years ago. 

I'm really sorry that there are such horrible people who'd do this to you, and to others. :(  I really hope that it's something that nobody has to face any more. Fingers crossed that this fades away as an issue - and that a few years from now everyone will be embarrassed that they ever had a problem with equality.

It'd be nice if they also showed reconciliation; perhaps helping out the mental health of youth who have been so badly harmed.

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Queensland is in an uncertain state following their election. On the positive side, Malcolm Roberts was trounced in his bid to return to parliament. :D

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10 hours ago, Yukle said:

Queensland is in an uncertain state following their election. On the positive side, Malcolm Roberts was trounced in his bid to return to parliament. :D

Looking like Labor will pull it out with a slim majority. The big pluses are One Nation tanking and only looking like getting a single seat, and the Libs prevarication over One Nation backfiring spectacularly. Hopefully this'll convince the LNP that if hint of a One Nation coalition is that toxic and costs them votes in Queensland of all places, getting into bed with them elsewhere isn't an option.

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35 minutes ago, Impmk2 said:

Looking like Labor will pull it out with a slim majority. The big pluses are One Nation tanking and only looking like getting a single seat, and the Libs prevarication over One Nation backfiring spectacularly. Hopefully this'll convince the LNP that if hint of a One Nation coalition is that toxic and costs them votes in Queensland of all places, getting into bed with them elsewhere isn't an option.

I'm really hoping so.

The marriage equality vote and now this Queensland election have highlighted Labor's continuing struggles with uniting its disparate factions. Their working class and progressive bases are united in their desire for expanded education, health and welfare, coupled with a crackdown against banks and whatnot. But since it was 10 safe Labor seats that voted against marriage equality and an ALP seat that One Nation managed to flip, the ALP has trouble on its hands to keep the different elements of its party united.

In some ways, it's not helped by the fact that catering to one faction or the other doesn't make any difference. Federally, they appealed to the more conservative bloc under Kim Beazley in 2001 and Mark Latham in 2004 and ended up crashing badly both times. But at state level, they have aimed to be more progressive in Victoria and the ACT, and each time all it has done is saw their core progressive voters bleed to the Greens anyway.

I like the way that Australia's voting system provides for minor parties to hold real influence. It's just that I'd also like progressive issues to succeed, and at the moment there's a real risk that the largest progressive party could be about to fall into obscurity for a while, allowing many recently won gains to be either partially or entirely reversed.

I also add the disclaimer that I'm well aware that the ALP is further divided by the fact that its state Victorian and NSW parties completely hate each other. The Vics are essentially a larger Greens party while the NSW are essentially an alternative Coalition. Neither wants to budge on their preferred vision for the party's future.

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On 2017-11-26 at 7:45 AM, Yukle said:

Queensland is in an uncertain state following their election. On the positive side, Malcolm Roberts was trounced in his bid to return to parliament. :D

:lol: 

Oh yeah, and:

:rofl::rofl: 

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I'm less concerned that Labor are headed for obscurity than Yukle as I think the coalition are heading for self destruction of truly epic proportions. I think we're fortunate that we already had a deeply unpopular right wing government in charge at the time Trump, Brexit, rise of modern fascism has happened as our electoral pendulum is going to usher in change soon and they've been limited in the damage they can do. I would be *a lot* more scared about the direction of our country if we had an unpopular Labor government and an opposition headed by Dictator-in-waiting Peter Dutton.

As it is I get to hope he loses his seat next election and saves us from that.

I still get to be deeply ashamed and contemptuous of what we're willing to do to people we don't like though.

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2 minutes ago, karaddin said:

I still get to be deeply ashamed and contemptuous of what we're willing to do to people we don't like though.

This.

The way some groups of people have been treated recently goes against every aspect of the "fair go" concept I grew up with.

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2 hours ago, karaddin said:

I'm less concerned that Labor are headed for obscurity than Yukle as I think the coalition are heading for self destruction of truly epic proportions. I think we're fortunate that we already had a deeply unpopular right wing government in charge at the time Trump, Brexit, rise of modern fascism has happened as our electoral pendulum is going to usher in change soon and they've been limited in the damage they can do. I would be *a lot* more scared about the direction of our country if we had an unpopular Labor government and an opposition headed by Dictator-in-waiting Peter Dutton.

As it is I get to hope he loses his seat next election and saves us from that.

I still get to be deeply ashamed and contemptuous of what we're willing to do to people we don't like though.

As to the first point, I hadn't thought of it like that. Queensland kind of shows that maybe the Coalition was better as distinct parties targeting different groups: rural areas and urban centres.

And to the final point, I'm always wary of tut-tutting the USA on their race marches when, at the same time, Australia boasts its utterly abhorrent treatment of refugees. To the point where New Zealand's offer for humane passage is rejected on the principle that it would be kind to the refugees to treat them as humans (or whatever the latest excuse to pretend it's not this).

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14 hours ago, Stubby said:

This.

The way some groups of people have been treated recently goes against every aspect of the "fair go" concept I grew up with.

I spent yesterday reading and taking notes on the NT Royal Commission report.

A full days work and I still have another 4 or 5 volumes to get through but I'm willing to say with 100% certainty that there is no hope for this country.

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1 hour ago, brook said:

I spent yesterday reading and taking notes on the NT Royal Commission report.

A full days work and I still have another 4 or 5 volumes to get through but I'm willing to say with 100% certainty that there is no hope for this country.

This was like the Bringing Them Home report. It laid out all of these really heartbreaking stories, and then a lengthy series of recommendations. Of which, precisely none were adopted.

Which NT report do you refer to? The one about youth in gaol? (They say detention centre, but that's another name for prison).

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55 minutes ago, Yukle said:

This was like the Bringing Them Home report. It laid out all of these really heartbreaking stories, and then a lengthy series of recommendations. Of which, precisely none were adopted.

Which NT report do you refer to? The one about youth in gaol? (They say detention centre, but that's another name for prison).

Yes. https://childdetentionnt.royalcommission.gov.au/Pages/default.aspx

Earlier this year we had a visit to the old Parramatta girls home as part of one of my university subjects. I cried when I saw the isolation cells and listening to the former residents stories of abuse. 

The pictures and stories I read yesterday weren't actually all that different (if anything some were worse).

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I can't believe there was essentially no fallout from the Royal Commission. After all that abhorrence... none of the children are getting much help and none of the perpetrators are even receiving a slap on the wrist. :( 

To cap it all, it seems that there is a subtle green light that what happened is somehow okay to be repeated.

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  • 2 weeks later...

This comment, seen on the ABC News FB page, wins the internet this afternoon:

Quote

I just ran out of salt at home, but I figure there will be plenty to pick up in The Australian comment section.

 

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Cannot wait for the next round of "See? We're super tolerant of you people, now piss off" columns nestled next to "Once more Christians are in fabulous queer peril".

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