Warging laws

[Wizz-The-Smith]

13 hours ago, LynnS said:

 

14 hours ago, Faera said:

"Under the sea" or "under the see"? It feels like there is a double meaning in Patchface's "under the sea" statements. The circumstances of his survival make him seem like some sort of wight.

I also will agree that the saying "what is dead may never die" would fit an off-shoot of the religion of the old gods of the trees. A huge part of their faith is that your spirit goes into the trees on death to become part of the god hood yourself. It is their afterlife.

Same thing, only not under water but under a sea of trees, a sea of grass - the green sea/see/seer.

 

Hi LynnS.  

Great shout, I love that connection!  @ravenous reader was to my knowledge the first to spot this link and has posted in depth about it [if anyone is interested in reading further, it was in the nennymoans thread if I recall correctly] it's a cool catch by the Three-eyed 'Raven'ous.  There's also a really neat passage of text that our friend @Tijgy highlighted that directly links the trees to the green sea, which is as follows.......

Quote

'Closer at hand, it was the trees that ruled.  To the south and east the wood went on as far as Jon could see, a vast tangle of root and limb painted in a thousand shades of green, with here and there a patch of red where a weirwood shouldered through the pines and sentinels, or a blush of yellow where some broadleafs had begun to turn. When the wind blew, he could hear the creak and groan of branches older than he was. A thousand leaves fluttered, and for a moment the forest seemed a deep green sea, storm-tossed and heaving, eternal and unknowable.

Ghost was not likely alone down there, he thought. Anything could be moving under that sea, creeping toward the ringfort through the dark of the wood, concealed beneath those trees...........

I also love that passage of text, awesome.  Anyway, I know RR would be pleased to sea see this being discussed on the forum, great stuff LynnS!!                  

[LynnS]

2 hours ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Hi LynnS.  

Great shout, I love that connection!  @ravenous reader was to my knowledge the first to spot this link and has posted in depth about it [if anyone is interested in reading further, it was in the nennymoans thread if I recall correctly] it's a cool catch by the Three-eyed 'Raven'ous.  There's also a really neat passage of text that our friend @Tijgy highlighted that directly links the trees to the green sea, which is as follows.......

I also love that passage of text, awesome.  Anyway, I know RR would be pleased to sea see this being discussed on the forum, great stuff LynnS!!                  

Yes, I recall the many discussions with RR on Patchface going back aways.  RR has moved to the UK and has left for forums for a time.  

[Faera]

Here is something that ties into what we were discussing earlier about Hodor as well as tying back into the moral code and knowledge of Haggon for the skinchanger that came to me on the train home today. Specifically, the notion of the relationship between a skinchanger and their host being a two-way relationship and that both parties will change as a result of this relationship.
 

Quote

"Wolves and women wed for life," Haggon often said. "You take one, that's a marriage. The wolf is part of you from that day on, and you're part of him. Both of you will change."

- Prologue, ADwD

 

So, Haggon really wasn't big on skinchanging into many other animals and preferred wolves, like a typical warg. However, we know from the Varamyr-Eagle!Orell relationship that the claiming of any animal, not just wolves, can influence the feelings of the skinchanger. We all know how much animosity Orell still had for Jon Snow after he killed him even after dying and beginning his second life in his eagle; even trying to rip out Jon's eyes. Varamyr reflects that,
 

Quote

"They say you forget," Haggon had told him, a few weeks before his own death. "When the man's flesh dies, his spirit lives on inside the beast, but every day his memory fades, and the beast becomes a little less a warg, a little more a wolf, until nothing of the man is left and only the beast remains."
     Varamyr knew the truth of that. When he claimed the eagle that had been Orell's, he could feel the other skinchanger raging at his presence. Orell had been slain by the turncloak crow Jon Snow, and his hate for his killer had been so strong that Varamyr found himself hating the beastling boy as well. 

- Prologue, ADwD

3

This indicates that not only is Orell still there and unhappy at having a "three-is-a-crowd" going on in his second life but also that his emotions towards Jon were so strong that they spread to Varamyr. They share emotions and it spreads from Orell, to his eagle, and to Varamyr.

All in all, this really did get me thinking about the relationships between our other warg/skinchanger characters, and none more so than Bran and Hodor. We can often credit Bran with having the dominant and forceful personality of the two that it is easy to forget the two-way relationship involved in skinchanging.

So, I'm curious how people think the two of them might be changing as a result of their "skin-sharing" scheme. How might they influence each other? How might they come to experience or even acquire each other's feelings?