Blade Runner 2049 - more human than human [Spoilers!]

[Slurktan]

2 hours ago, Ran said:

The twists were indeed good, but the pacing was unnecessarily glacial (the original was much brisker without feeling rushed at all).

I'm with Corvinus.  Bladerunner's pacing is god fucking awful.  This movie is slightly better in that regard.

[Ramsay B.]

3 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

I still can't decide if I love the soundtrack or hate it.

Same here. Sometimes it was really good and fit what was going on perfectly, and other times it was just a very loud distraction. 

[Darth Richard II]

I thought this was interesting: http://www.rogerebert.com/balder-and-dash/tears-of-a-machine-the-humanity-of-luv-in-blade-runner-2049

[boojam]

On 10/19/2017 at 5:14 PM, Ran said:

Given reports here, it sounds like the creative decision was made to make the music really, really loud everywhere -- I thought it was just an IMAX thing, showing off the sound system, but apparently not. But it made the sound almost painfully overwhelming at times. I'll have to listen to the sound track on Spotify at a more reasonable volume to see what I make of it, but I admit, I too do not understand why Vangelis wasn't asked to do it.

I wonder if was Denis Villeneuve or producer Scott who wanted it to sound more 'Vangelis' like? It mostly does not sound Vangelis like. I think the score is kind of OK enough, don't understand some of the overt percussion or at least the number of amps they were played at. Was this more Wallfisch than Zimmer? The score seemed to have a kind of 'hasty' feel to it , as if done in a short amount of time. I hope the Jóhann Jóhannsson score is released some day.

Interesting there is a small clip of Johannsson's score on the web, gee that is even more strident than what they have. It's funny listening to the score for Arrival it seemed Johannsson would have been a good choice for BR2. 

I can't really figure out what they were after with this score for BR2.

Vangelis was asked in 2016 if he was scoring Blade Runner 2049 and he said he didn't want to, I wonder if he was even asked?

[boojam]

On 10/19/2017 at 3:44 PM, Ran said:

Mileage definitely varies, because I'm kind of so-so on the movie and don't think it enriches the original at all. The twists were indeed good, but the pacing was unnecessarily glacial (the original was much brisker without feeling rushed at all). I fear I kept looking at my watch, which... you know, first time ever doing an IMAX film, and one with such a visual team, and I guess I still feel a bit bewildered by the fact that it wasn't sweeping away. Maybe I came in with too-high expectations.

Can't fault the acting, production design, etc. Score, somewhat, those blasts of sound... eh.

I can see the flaws and seams, but , for me , it comes across as a better story than the first Blade Runner. It does a clever job of picking elements from the first film and developing. I found the film engaging enough that the length didn't bother me. Gee I remember loving 3 hour , plus , movies back when they had road shows. They did have intermissions then , of course exhibitors would not go for that these days. I thought the length could have been used for more back story , there seems to be a very interesting one of how Deckard and Rachel and 'rebel' androids set the 'secret' , plus there is an 'android' underground moving is sophisticated ways that is never explained. I still love the original Blade Runner too.

Man I grew up in the 1950's watching Queen of Outer Space and Plan 9 From Other Space and god know how many other Z films... it's a relief to see serious SF films in the last decade , recently Ex Machina , Predestination, The Martian, Interstellar, Gravity ... and this film.

[Darth Richard II]

Well, I think they only had 2 months or so do to the soundtrack, and it certainly is impressive when yo consider that. (And I am no fan of Zimmer, believe me)

 

And I really really liked the quiet parts of the soundtrack.

[Dolorous Gabe]

12 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

I thought this was interesting: http://www.rogerebert.com/balder-and-dash/tears-of-a-machine-the-humanity-of-luv-in-blade-runner-2049

Thanks for posting that, I thoroughly enjoyed reading it.

[Theda Baratheon]

On 10/20/2017 at 0:01 AM, Slurktan said:

I'm with Corvinus.  Bladerunner's pacing is god fucking awful.  This movie is slightly better in that regard.

The pacing is great and there's no wasted scenes.  

 

Watching 2049 again tonight. I'm really excited. I did need awhile to process it before watching again but I really did think it was fantastic. 

[Werthead]

That documentary I posted earlier had one scene from Blade Runner (the original) that Scott exercised, and you can see why. It killed the pacing, wasn't well-acted and redundantly restated the plot. I think BR's pacing is actually pretty decent.

My only complaint with BR2049's pacing is that it felt like it had an act or half an act that wasn't strictly necessary to the plot. Having the big trip out of LA to the orphanage and then the big trip out of LA to Las Vegas felt slightly repetitive, but I can't think how they could have combined the two, and both sequences had more than earned emotional and story beats.

I can't remember the last almost-three-hour movie I watched which was this well-paced. Fellowship of the Ring maybe? But even then I would have cut out Lothlorien for the deadening effect it had on the pacing (and screw the book canon at that point, it would have also allowed the removal of Random Galadriel Rock Star stuff from the later movies). I'd give 2049 the edge in that comparison.

[Ran]

The Revenant, Wolf of Wall Street, Gangs of New York, Django Unchained, The Departed, Gone Girl -- hunted around for some recent 2.5+ hour films, and I know I never looked at my watch on my first viewing of any of these.

I'm curious if it was just fatigue from the blaring soundtrack that is the primary culprit -- will perhaps be interesting to rewatch at home, some day, with a more reasonable volume level. 

[boojam]

 

The shorts for Blade Runner 2049 at the Warner site on YouTube.

These are teasers as well as connectors , interesting stuff.

BLADE RUNNER 2049 - "2036: Nexus Dawn" Short

BLADE RUNNER 2049 - "2048: Nowhere to Run" Short

BLADE RUNNER 2049 - "Black Out 2022" Anime Short

I am not so taken with the Anime one, seems some Japanese-anime-think about what characters are where.
Also seems the story is a hyped compared to what may have happened even tho we don't know the details of what happened.
2022 seems imply that the Replicant Underground was already in place , that's ok, but an elaboration about how that got to be would have been better.

The 2036 story seems to be set too close 2049 ,  in my mind it should have put it at 2030.

The 2048 story is a segue to the very first sequence in the film.  That is the most interesting one. 
From the movie the implication is that Freysa and Sapper are/were members of the Replicant Underground with the snap to put together a complex scheme to hide and keep secret Dr. Ana Stelline. That sounds very interesting. Sapper and Freysa were apparently off planet colony replicants ,  who came back to Earth and where ready to execute (with Deckard and Rachel)  the 'Stelline secret' in 2020! That seemed a more interesting story than elaborating K's love life! I know flashbacks are considered taboo in movie making, but it does work at times.

It's like BR2049 had a 'bible' , maybe we will see it.

[Darth Richard II]

I think both films are paced wonderfully, keeping in find I haven't seen the theatrical cut of the original in at least a decade.

 

The soundtrack reminds me a lot of Goldenthal's score for Alien 3, when I think about it. There's a great documentary about it on the Alien3 bluray about how they used the score almost as sfx at certain points, but I could talk about alien3 forever.

[boojam]

We no longer seem to be plagued , well for a long time now, by god awful science fiction films like Queen of Outer Space or Plan 9 From Outer Space(a lot more!) (1950s).  We seem to get , ok, but really no-cigar science fiction films. At least its like one really sophisticated science fiction film a year, which is better than none!* To wit:

2010 - Inception (79%)

2011- nothing really (The Adjustment Bureau gets only a 69% from me)

2012 - Looper (I give it a 70% not the 90% on RT)

2013 - Gravity (A true cool alternate universe science fiction film, tightly done, 95%)

2014 - Interstellar (flawed but trying, 80%)

2014 - Predestination (surprisingly terrific adaptation of a Robert Heinlein story , 95%, a must see.)

2015 - Ex Machina (90%, a very intelligent SF film with a few seams)

2016 -Arrival (90%, a smart adaptation of Ted Chiang story)

2017 - Blade Runner 2049 (95%, Denis Villeneuve does two in a row)

My criteria is 'how close to the spirit and intelligence of the best prose form of science fiction is a film?'. * (I know of only one 100% case and that is 2001: A Space Odyssey.)

That said I am not hopeful about the future after what has happened at the box office for BR 2049. Tho I think it will have a following that will in the long run ,10 to 20 years, turn a modest profit. I am hopeful this does not kill the chances of another sophisticated science fiction film.

*Mark, in the period I am talking about there are some other fair SF films.

[williamjm]

18 minutes ago, boojam said:

That said I am not hopeful about the future after what has happened at the box office for BR 2049. Tho I think it will have a following that will in the long run ,10 to 20 years, turn a modest profit. I am hopeful this does not kill the chances of another sophisticated science fiction film.

I think it's important to remember that BR2049's box office is only really disappointing when you're comparing it to its budget and the studio's expectations for getting their money back. It's already made more money than other films on your list like Arrival (just), Ex Machina and Looper and I think Hollywood would regard them as financial successes because they weren't as expensive to make, so we might get more similar films just maybe not with the same sort of huge budget.

[boojam]

19 minutes ago, williamjm said:

I think it's important to remember that BR2049's box office is only really disappointing when you're comparing it to its budget and the studio's expectations for getting their money back. It's already made more money than other films on your list like Arrival (just), Ex Machina and Looper and I think Hollywood would regard them as financial successes because they weren't as expensive to make, so we might get more similar films just maybe not with the same sort of huge budget.

You are right. I should have qualified by saying 'big budget'. Actually I think there will be more good big budget SF films.Maybe with a bigger 'delta' between them.  I am very curious to see what happens, with all the praise that Villeneuve got if DUNE really gets made. Thats another big budget deal and a tough challenge adaptation, defeating a very fine director, Lynch has said he should not have signed on to make Dune. 

Tell ya, wish HBO had of picked up THE EXPANSE and given it the resources it has given GoT and West World. That series is excellent but a bit budget bound, even with the good job they do. 

HBO still owns Asimov's Foundation (option) as far as I know, lord only knows where that will go.

[Isis]

Did ANYONE else see this in Dolby Atmos? I'm curious what someone else makes of the effects.

[Darth Richard II]

5 hours ago, Isis said:

Did ANYONE else see this in Dolby Atmos? I'm curious what someone else makes of the effects.

I did, it was crazy. That's the only word I can think of to describe it.

[Isis]

Did you get different sounds at different heights?

[Theda Baratheon]

Just watched 2049 for the second time tonight. I watched it first on release date but I needed some time to process (I did love it though - I left the cinema in an absolute daze) and this time around I think I loved it even more. 

My question is - what is everyone's thoughts on Luv? The first time around I really liked her character; I liked the small flashes of vulnerability and I thought she was an excellent and worthy villain. I also felt the  fight scene in the water was almost biblical. Two angels battling it out over the Father. Fantastic stuff. The second time around and I love her even more. I find her so interesting. She isn't a totally emotionless robot (then again, who is in Blade Runner world except the human characters?) but she's cold and deadly and efficient. 

But I also noticed just how many emotions she displays this time around. She's frightened frightened of Wallace, she's also in awe of him and I desperately craves his approval and wants to impress him. She shows compassion when when she cries over the slaughtered barren replicant woman. She shows triumph and joy and smugness and cruelness. She shows a lot wider array of emotions than K even. But subtle. And quiet. 

However...K is able to break from his programming. Once he believes he was born and he no longer retains any internalised prejudice against himself for being worth less for being made rather than born he is ablw ro transcend his programming. He can allow himself to believe he might have been born and loved. Of course hes terrified about what that means for his future but he's also found a real genuine purpose and meaning. 

The tragedy of Luv is that that she never gets to do that. She can't.  She's trapped inside the rigidity of her programming, helpless to it whilst filled with untapped emotions. She is incapable of viewing herself above and beyond what Wallace has designed her to be. She is ecstatic at any praise he gives her. She is incapable of truly seeing him for the rotten person he is. She believes every single thing he believes about himself because he programmed her to believe it. She can't truly escape her confines even though I feel like she was trapped there - just beneath the perfect surface. I think she's a wonderful character and brilliantly acted.

[Darth Richard II]

14 minutes ago, Isis said:

Did you get different sounds at different heights?

Yeah. It was an experience.

Also, everything @Theda Baratheon just said. +1