Theda Baratheon Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Darth Richard II said: Yeah. It was an experience. Also, everything @Theda Baratheon just said. +1 I liked Joi slightly less this time around and agree with some other people's opinions on her. I also like Marriette a LOT more this time around too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boojam Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 2 hours ago, Theda Baratheon said: Just watched 2049 for the second time tonight. I watched it first on release date but I needed some time to process (I did love it though - I left the cinema in an absolute daze) and this time around I think I loved it even more. My question is - what is everyone's thoughts on Luv? The first time around I really liked her character; I liked the small flashes of vulnerability and I thought she was an excellent and worthy villain. I also felt the fight scene in the water was almost biblical. Two angels battling it out over the Father. Fantastic stuff. The second time around and I love her even more. I find her so interesting. She isn't a totally emotionless robot (then again, who is in Blade Runner world except the human characters?) but she's cold and deadly and efficient. But I also noticed just how many emotions she displays this time around. She's frightened frightened of Wallace, she's also in awe of him and I desperately craves his approval and wants to impress him. She shows compassion when when she cries over the slaughtered barren replicant woman. She shows triumph and joy and smugness and cruelness. She shows a lot wider array of emotions than K even. But subtle. And quiet. However...K is able to break from his programming. Once he believes he was born and he no longer retains any internalised prejudice against himself for being worth less for being made rather than born he is ablw ro transcend his programming. He can allow himself to believe he might have been born and loved. Of course hes terrified about what that means for his future but he's also found a real genuine purpose and meaning. The tragedy of Luv is that that she never gets to do that. She can't. She's trapped inside the rigidity of her programming, helpless to it whilst filled with untapped emotions. She is incapable of viewing herself above and beyond what Wallace has designed her to be. She is ecstatic at any praise he gives her. She is incapable of truly seeing him for the rotten person he is. She believes every single thing he believes about himself because he programmed her to believe it. She can't truly escape her confines even though I feel like she was trapped there - just beneath the perfect surface. I think she's a wonderful character and brilliantly acted. I tell ya, never seen Sylvia Hoeks before and she was just amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boojam Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 13 minutes ago, Theda Baratheon said: I liked Joi slightly less this time around and agree with some other people's opinions on her. I also like Marriette a LOT more this time around too. Second time around I noticed Mackenzie Davis , who I have noticed before. It's so brief here, but she brings a kind of 'gravitas' to that role. (I have always thought Robin Wright is a literal goddess.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 15 minutes ago, boojam said: I tell ya, never seen Sylvia Hoeks before and she was just amazing. She was phenomenal. I'm looking out for her in future. Her crying and little character nuances brought SO much power to that role. 13 minutes ago, boojam said: Second time around I noticed Mackenzie Davis , who I have noticed before. It's so brief here, but she brings a kind of 'gravitas' to that role. (I have always thought Robin Wright is a literal goddess.) Yeah. I really paid attention to her second time around and she does have something about her. I loved her comforting K after he's been beat the hell up by Luv and before he meets the one eyed woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 On 10/15/2017 at 5:25 PM, boojam said: It is hard to think of movies or TV that do future fiction settings on the Earth or the Solar System and have to portray a gritty lived-in-look. Children of Men In the scene where K discovers the horse, something about the music put me back in 2001. The 2001 scene was the Star Gate and this was perhaps a homage. Anyone else notice that? I liked this movie a lot and think that Harrison Ford's performance was much more solid than what I saw in the Star Wars flick of couple of years ago where I thought most of the actors, Ford included, were phoning it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Oh was Ford in Star Wars? (haha I kid) Yeah there's a few scenes where the music just completely takes over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Ford really is fantastic in this movie though. Didn't phone it in at all. I loved it. Also how did they manage to find a dog that looked exactly like Harrison Ford if he was a dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Theda Baratheon said: Ford really is fantastic in this movie though. Didn't phone it in at all. I loved it. Also how did they manage to find a dog that looked exactly like Harrison Ford if he was a dog That dog had to audition just like everyone else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemon Stark Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Saw this a second time yesterday. Probably one of Ford's most detailed and affecting performances in a very long time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boojam Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 13 hours ago, Nasty LongRider said: Children of Men In the scene where K discovers the horse, something about the music put me back in 2001. The 2001 scene was the Star Gate and this was perhaps a homage. Anyone else notice that? I liked this movie a lot and think that Harrison Ford's performance was much more solid than what I saw in the Star Wars flick of couple of years ago where I thought most of the actors, Ford included, were phoning it in. It's been along time running that the 'eye'' at the beginning of BR1 and BR2 is nod by Scott to Kubrick and now I guess Villeneuve too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felice Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 15 hours ago, Darth Richard II said: Oh was Ford in Star Wars? Yes, and we find out he split up with his girlfriend from the end of the previous film years ago because of their kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 OK, so, there was a thread on twitter that I wasn't goign to justify by linking to that now seems to have been deleted(of course) about how BR2049 is the most sexists, misogynistic movie ever made. The replies basical consited of the OP pulling a RoH and either going "you're just defending it cause you're a man" or "you must hate women", so, it didn't reall go anyway, but since i AM a guy and sometimes things go completely over my head about this stuff I thought I would ask for your guys/gals opinions. All my female friends loved it, which I know doesn't mean much, but I feel like watching this movie and coming away with the impression that its endorsing we all turn the female population into sex slaves or robots or whatever is kind of missing the entire idea of a dystopian future. It's liek watching the matrix and think its saying we should use people as batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I don't think it consciously argues for any of that. But I was pondering this a moment and... am I wrong, or is there just one actual human female featured in the entire thing (Robin Wright's character, Joshi)? And she's a typical hard-ass career woman who's not especially sympathetic and sends K to kill a replicant's offspring, and who briefly toys with ordering K to sleep with her (at least, that's my recollection of the gist of part of the conversation in K's apartment) because she knows he'd have to do it. Every other woman is a replicant, replicant-off-spring, or a digital AI. Right? And they are antagonists (Luv), sex objects (Mariette), love interests (Joi), or damsels-in-distress (Stelline) for the msot part. I'm not sure if this literally means anything -- I mean, how many actual male humans are there in this? Coco, the orphanage guy, the black market guy, Deckard (depending on who you listen to), and of course Wallace. Perhaps this distinction between human/not human doesn't even really matter; Villeneuve discusses the female characters as expressing feminity and so on, so he doesn't really treat them as being something "other" just because they are AI/replicants. I guess I'd fall on it being somewhat sexist in that it's primarily male-driven and women have limited roles as antagonists, love interests, or sex objects -- the only exception being Rachael's and Deckard's daughter, I suppose. But then you're basically questioning the idea of ever presenting a story about a distinct lead character of either gender... But here's a thought experiment: instead of Ryan Gosling, you've got Emily Blunt (or insert any other actress) as K. Would the story feel different? Would it read differently in regards to what it may or may not be saying about women? Do you keep Joi as a female AI or do you need to change it to a male? Do Mariette and the other N9 sex workers need to become male to make a pass (actually, the fact that it was 3 female prostitutes sent to fetch info from K _was_ a bit sexist, unless we're to believe that all N9s are strictly heterosexual by design which seems unlikely to me)? Anyways, it's certainly not the most sexist and misogynistic film ever made. Has this person ever seen a Neil LaBute film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I dunno, the thread got purged, but she was also screaming about Ex Mahcina (which I haven't watched yet). Those are certainly some interesting questions.I kind of thought asking those questions was one of the points of the film, but like I said sometimes this stuff goes completely over my head. But I think the world that was presented was supposed to be problematic. I still need to see it a second time though. Edit: I mean, the entire movie revolves around a creepy jesus looking dude wanting to control reproduction. I didn't think it was going for subtle with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I definitely think Ex Machina depicts misogyny, but it doesn't have a misgoynistic message; quite the opposite, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Yeah, I got the feeling "depiction doe snot equal endorsement" was kind of a ocncept beyond this person's grasp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boojam Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Ran said: I don't think it consciously argues for any of that. But I was pondering this a moment and... am I wrong, or is there just one actual human female featured in the entire thing (Robin Wright's character, Joshi)? And she's a typical hard-ass career woman who's not especially sympathetic and sends K to kill a replicant's offspring, and who briefly toys with ordering K to sleep with her (at least, that's my recollection of the gist of part of the conversation in K's apartment) because she knows he'd have to do it. Anyways, it's certainly not the most sexist and misogynistic film ever made. Has this person ever seen a Neil LaBute film? Well if ones goes with Deckard is a human (which I do) then Dr. Ana Stelline is half human and half replicant. Which is really delicious! That of course would have been icing on the cake for Philip K Dick since Deckard was human in his Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep and the major plot element was Deckard becoming concerned that he was becoming confused as to wither the androids where actually human. It's really twisty if she is the daughter of two replicants. Yeah if one thinks sex and nudity is sexism (an odd thought) then just how many movies would that be? Has this person seen Beyond the Valley of the Dolls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemon Stark Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 3 hours ago, Ran said: I guess I'd fall on it being somewhat sexist in that it's primarily male-driven and women have limited roles as antagonists, love interests, or sex objects -- the only exception being Rachael's and Deckard's daughter, I suppose. But then you're basically questioning the idea of ever presenting a story about a distinct lead character of either gender... But here's a thought experiment: instead of Ryan Gosling, you've got Emily Blunt (or insert any other actress) as K. Would the story feel different? Would it read differently in regards to what it may or may not be saying about women? Do you keep Joi as a female AI or do you need to change it to a male? Do Mariette and the other N9 sex workers need to become male to make a pass (actually, the fact that it was 3 female prostitutes sent to fetch info from K _was_ a bit sexist, unless we're to believe that all N9s are strictly heterosexual by design which seems unlikely to me)? Anyways, it's certainly not the most sexist and misogynistic film ever made. Has this person ever seen a Neil LaBute film? I read a review criticizing the film along these lines and was singularly unconvinced. But if you replace Gosling with Blunt I think you just get Sicario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAROVORKIN Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Excellent film Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ants Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 On 10/22/2017 at 11:38 PM, boojam said: We no longer seem to be plagued , well for a long time now, by god awful science fiction films like Queen of Outer Space or Plan 9 From Outer Space(a lot more!) (1950s). We seem to get , ok, but really no-cigar science fiction films. At least its like one really sophisticated science fiction film a year, which is better than none!* To wit: 2010 - Inception (79%) 2011- nothing really (The Adjustment Bureau gets only a 69% from me) 2012 - Looper (I give it a 70% not the 90% on RT) 2013 - Gravity (A true cool alternate universe science fiction film, tightly done, 95%) 2014 - Interstellar (flawed but trying, 80%) 2014 - Predestination (surprisingly terrific adaptation of a Robert Heinlein story , 95%, a must see.) 2015 - Ex Machina (90%, a very intelligent SF film with a few seams) 2016 -Arrival (90%, a smart adaptation of Ted Chiang story) 2017 - Blade Runner 2049 (95%, Denis Villeneuve does two in a row) My criteria is 'how close to the spirit and intelligence of the best prose form of science fiction is a film?'. * (I know of only one 100% case and that is 2001: A Space Odyssey.) That said I am not hopeful about the future after what has happened at the box office for BR 2049. Tho I think it will have a following that will in the long run ,10 to 20 years, turn a modest profit. I am hopeful this does not kill the chances of another sophisticated science fiction film. *Mark, in the period I am talking about there are some other fair SF films. The adjustment bureau was science fiction? Nothing in it had anything to do with science. You missed out the truly excellent Edge of Tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.