manchester_babe

did the targs breed with dragons?

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according to the world of fire & ice; they bred with dragons and they did in inbreed.

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Posted (edited)

There does seem to be something to this rumour, although one could certainly take the Blood of The Dragon idea to be simple Valyrian posturing. Never the less, there are quite a few hints in the text

  • Reptilian featured Targ kids such as Rhaego and Rhaenyra's daughter.
  • The City of the Winged Men, located in eastern Essos, is said to be the haunt of humans who fly upon leathern wings.
  • There seems to have been a fair bit of Umbrella corporation/Dr. Moroe style bio engineering going on in the Freehold. Valyrians were known to mate woman with beast in places such as Gorgossos. 
  • The dragon dreams of Dany, Aerion Brightflame and others.
  • Valyrian sphinxes - the body of a dragon and face of a woman. The Freehold notoriously battered the Ghiscari in five consecutive wars. How much of their enemies culture did they take interest in? The scions of Grazdan were known for their love of harpy based imagery, perhaps the Valyrians were inspired by these hybrid statues and sought to turn themselves into humanoid dragons.
  • The Valyrians themselves could somehow have evolved from dragons. If you look at the shape of Drogon and co in TWOIAF Dany illustration, Drogon does have some humanoid characteristics such as his torso, chest and "hands". The Valyrians do claim descent from their fiery companions, this could explain the original "sheep farmers who found the dragons in the 14 flames", and why a bunch of human farmers were living in a mountainous active volcano range. 
Edited by Leo of House Cartel

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7 hours ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

There does seem to be something to this rumour, although one could certainly take the Blood of The Dragon idea to be simple Valyrian posturing. Never the less, there are quite a few hints in the text

  • Reptilian featured Targ kids such as Rhaego and Rhaenyra's daughter.
  • The City of the Winged Men, located in eastern Essos, is said to be the haunt of humans who fly upon leathern wings.
  • There seems to have been a fair bit of Umbrella corporation/Dr. Moroe style bio engineering going on in the Freehold. Valyrians were known to mate woman with beast in places such as Gorgossos. 
  • The dragon dreams of Dany, Aerion Brightflame and others.
  • Valyrian sphinxes - the body of a dragon and face of a woman. The Freehold notoriously battered the Ghiscari in five consecutive wars. How much of their enemies culture did they take interest in? The scions of Grazdan were known for their love of harpy based imagery, perhaps the Valyrians were inspired by these hybrid statues and sought to turn themselves into humanoid dragons.
  • The Valyrians themselves could somehow have evolved from dragons. If you look at the shape of Drogon and co in TWOIAF Dany illustration, Drogon does have some humanoid characteristics such as his torso, chest and "hands". The Valyrians do claim descent from their fiery companions, this could explain the original "sheep farmers who found the dragons in the 14 flames", and why a bunch of human farmers were living in a mountainous active volcano range. 

Hi, this is half off-topic, but by "sheep farmers" do you mean the sheep people of Miri the witch? So far, I've only watched the TV series, and recently read the first book (AGoT). That's when I realized, the whole dragon thing might actually have been the witch's plan - without her, Drogo would have lived, and the dragons never hatched. Is there such a theory, Miri/sheep people intentionally using Dany to make dragons great again? 

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Hey yo Ice C.

I was more refering to the original settlers of Valyria, who were said to tend to sheep before finding the dragons.

From the wiki; 

"Valyria was once a minor civilization of peaceful sheep-herding folk dwelling on the Valyrian peninsula, until the Valyrians discovered dragons lairing in the Fourteen Flames, a ring of volcanoes on the peninsula. The Valyrians tamed the dragons with magic and mastered the technique of raising and training the dragons into devastating weapons of war.

Take that with a pinch of salt, as by this point there are numerous variations on the Valyrian origin story, each with their respective merits and flaws.

In regards to Miri's plan to bring back dragons, you might be on to something dude. Remember in AGOT where Miri discusses her tutelage in the dark arts? There are several clues based around her tutor in later books. Keep reading homie! 

As far as I'm aware Miri's people the Lhazareen don't have a direct connection to Old Valyria. With their almond eyes, copper skin and black hair, the Lamb Men seem like they may share origins with the Dothraki.

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Maybe 2 years ago I was utterly convinced there was some blood mingling between Valyrians and dragons.   Then I was introduced to the soul transfer hypotheses.  Then Sons of the Dragon was released and I'm back to absolutely sure there is lots of beastiality in the way back of time.    There are lots of strange strange people on Planetos.  Those poor folks on Ib bother me most, I think.  This blood magic and sorcery goes back through time immemoriam.   Valyrians themselves ran the penal colony on Gorgossos.  They were the ones mating women with beasts.  Makes a simple reader sure wonder why they would do this.   Although I'm sure there was more to it than women and wyvern, it's clear that actual sex was involved in the process.   Ewww.   I'm looking at my iguana wondering how a woman could pull this off.    It had to be human male to female beast.   These reptiles are no so easy to figure out.   

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On 10/14/2017 at 11:44 PM, Curled Finger said:

Maybe 2 years ago I was utterly convinced there was some blood mingling between Valyrians and dragons.   Then I was introduced to the soul transfer hypotheses.  Then Sons of the Dragon was released and I'm back to absolutely sure there is lots of beastiality in the way back of time.    There are lots of strange strange people on Planetos.  Those poor folks on Ib bother me most, I think.  This blood magic and sorcery goes back through time immemoriam.   Valyrians themselves ran the penal colony on Gorgossos.  They were the ones mating women with beasts.  Makes a simple reader sure wonder why they would do this.   Although I'm sure there was more to it than women and wyvern, it's clear that actual sex was involved in the process.   Ewww.   I'm looking at my iguana wondering how a woman could pull this off.    It had to be human male to female beast.   These reptiles are no so easy to figure out.   

And the hybrids like Rhaego and Visenya, daughter of Rhaenyra are utterly non-functional.

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On 10/7/2017 at 7:03 PM, manchester_babe said:

according to the world of fire & ice; they bred with dragons and they did in inbreed.

It seems so far-fetched, but then,,,

On 10/8/2017 at 4:34 AM, Leo of House Cartel said:

There does seem to be something to this rumour, although one could certainly take the Blood of The Dragon idea to be simple Valyrian posturing. Never the less, there are quite a few hints in the text

  • Reptilian featured Targ kids such as Rhaego and Rhaenyra's daughter.
  • The City of the Winged Men, located in eastern Essos, is said to be the haunt of humans who fly upon leathern wings.
  • There seems to have been a fair bit of Umbrella corporation/Dr. Moroe style bio engineering going on in the Freehold. Valyrians were known to mate woman with beast in places such as Gorgossos. 
  • The dragon dreams of Dany, Aerion Brightflame and others.
  • Valyrian sphinxes - the body of a dragon and face of a woman. The Freehold notoriously battered the Ghiscari in five consecutive wars. How much of their enemies culture did they take interest in? The scions of Grazdan were known for their love of harpy based imagery, perhaps the Valyrians were inspired by these hybrid statues and sought to turn themselves into humanoid dragons.
  • The Valyrians themselves could somehow have evolved from dragons. If you look at the shape of Drogon and co in TWOIAF Dany illustration, Drogon does have some humanoid characteristics such as his torso, chest and "hands". The Valyrians do claim descent from their fiery companions, this could explain the original "sheep farmers who found the dragons in the 14 flames", and why a bunch of human farmers were living in a mountainous active volcano range. 

So, there does seem to be something there. I suspect it probably has something to do with some fell sorcery fusing the blood of the dragon with the blood of forty noble Valyrian families. 

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9 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

And the hybrids like Rhaego and Visenya, daughter of Rhaenyra are utterly non-functional.

True, but these children died in the womb or shortly after entering the world.    If these children survived who knows how they might function.   Still I think they are proof of genetic manipulation.   

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You guys might appreciate this severely cracked pot...

So there's that little box about the Mountain Clans in the Vale, TWOIAF that says the Burned Men were spun off from the Painted Dogs when they were enthralled by a fire a witch with a dragon. I read Alys into this when I first read it but the more likely candidate was Nettles since the fire witch commanded a dragon, but I still think Alys fits the roll of a fire witch better, so...

What if the dragon wasn't a dragon like Sheepstealer but the child of Aemond One-Eye?!? Maybe one of those deformed dragon babies, kept alive by sorcery! And what if Timett is not only the true heir to the Vale (it is known), but also a descendant of ol' One-Eye?!?

C'mon, that'd be cool. 

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