U.S. Politics: Can't Stand It, I Know Ya Planned It, Gotta Set It Straight this Morongate

[Darth Richard II]

12 hours ago, mormont said:

One thing that is surely crystal clear by now is that the American Right only care about hypocrisy when it's a charge they can level against a Democrat. It's the only time they care about any other sort of bad behaviour, too.

Well yes, that's kind the definition of hypocrisy.

[Darth Richard II]

1 hour ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

Nah.

 

Dammit, I was going to post that.

[Zorral]

2 hours ago, dmc515 said:

All the more reason the Dems should be focused on off-year/cycle state and local elections - to put as many Dems as possible in governor seats and state legislatures to prevent the same type of gerrymandering from happening next time around.

And influxes of people who are Dems into these gerrymandered districts favoring R's should be cruised and schmoozed constantly and thoroughly, registering the Dems to vote there. But that's all too much work for the Dems who prefer to depend on wonkery instead of boots and $$$$$ on the ground.

 

[denstorebog]

Shit has just gone completely batshit.

Quote from today about #TakeAKnee:

Quote

"There’s a part of this story that’s starting to make me nervous, and it’s this: I am very uncomfortable with the president of the United States being able to dictate the behavior and power of anybody. That’s not where this should be coming from.

We don’t want the president being able to demand anybody that he’s unhappy with behave in a way he require."

 

 

- Rush Limbaugh

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/354985-limbaugh-trumps-comments-on-nfl-starting-to-make-me-nervous

 

 

[The guy from the Vale]

... wait. I'm agreeing with Rush Limbaugh? We sure seem to have gone through one strange looking glass.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

34 minutes ago, theguyfromtheVale said:

... wait. I'm agreeing with Rush Limbaugh? We sure seem to have gone through one strange looking glass.

Broken clocks are still right twice a day.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

Nah.

 

So everyone by now has bought their goose stepping boots, right?

[karaddin]

7 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

Has there been any attempt at all to find out how many people were denied their right to vote in states like Florida, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania due to GOP vote suppression bullshit? When a state is lost by a few thousand votes, and there was less than expected turnout in major cities, with Republicans openly disenfranchising as many people as they can get away with, it's hard to escape the idea that the entire country got swindled and fucked over by a few corrupt state officials.

The numbers have been covered already in other responses. I've been shocked at how little Dem supporters acknowledge this - you complain about the number of voters that didn't show up, there were a bunch of voters suppressed... Maybe they're the same people?! Until now I've been assuming it was a desire to avoid looking like sore losers, the last time a GOP president was elected it was also under dubious circumstances and that was talked about for a very long time and republicans loved pointing this out. 

I'm starting to wonder if it's just inability to confront how fucked you are though? This is the primary reason I don't think there's any hope for 2018 midterms, most states are already gerrymandered to shit before you add mass voter suppression on top, and a failure in 2018 midterms leads into a second Trump term in 2020. When I say I worry there won't be another free and fair election this is what I'm talking about, not that there won't be an election at all.

I honestly have no idea what can be done, but one of the things that needs to happen is stop thinking of the GOP as a rational rival that can be worked with, they're a damaging opponent that must be defeated at every turn. Purge concern about hypocrisy because they sure as fuck don't care, stop thinking that pointing it out will work as a gotcha. You can worry about that again if you get out the other side of this.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

19 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

So everyone by now has bought their goose stepping boots, right?

Do the Blitzkrieg Bop, everybody.

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

6 minutes ago, karaddin said:

The numbers have been covered already in other responses. I've been shocked at how little Dem supporters acknowledge this - you complain about the number of voters that didn't show up, there were a bunch of voters suppressed... Maybe they're the same people?! Until now I've been assuming it was a desire to avoid looking like sore losers, the last time a GOP president was elected it was also under dubious circumstances and that was talked about for a very long time and republicans loved pointing this out. 

They acknowledge it all the time, and it was a major issue during the campaign. The problem is, nobody who wasn't already a Democrat listened. 

7 minutes ago, karaddin said:

I honestly have no idea what can be done

Have the economy collapse just before the 2020 elections with Republicans still holding both chambers of Congress? In all seriousness though, people always say, "This is the most important election ever," every cycle, and it's almost always maximum hyperbolic language. But in this case, the 2020 election really is the most important election of at least my life time. If the Republicans hold power, specifically at the state level, then they'll be able to make most elections completely unwinnable for Democrats for a decade (and probably a lot longer than that) and the country will swing even further to the right. Democrats absolutely need a wave election in that cycle. 

13 minutes ago, karaddin said:

but one of the things that needs to happen is stop thinking of the GOP as a rational rival that can be worked with, they're a damaging opponent that must be defeated at every turn. Purge concern about hypocrisy because they sure as fuck don't care, stop thinking that pointing it out will work as a gotcha. You can worry about that again if you get out the other side of this.

Yeah, this was kind of what I was getting at before. I wouldn't go quite this far, but Democrats really need to stop treating politics like it's a fair fight. The most important thing to Republicans right now is to win, and they'll do it at any cost. Just look at this past election. No person of integrity could ever side with Trump. 

[Jace, Extat]

24 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

So everyone by now has bought their goose stepping boots, right?

Nah dawg, I got dat pussy. I be gettin' raped all year round until I'm pregnant with more soldiers in the war against liberalism!

[DMC]

51 minutes ago, karaddin said:

I honestly have no idea what can be done, but one of the things that needs to happen is stop thinking of the GOP as a rational rival that can be worked with, they're a damaging opponent that must be defeated at every turn.

I don't think anyone here thinks of the GOP as a rational rival, other than insofar as they employ win-at-all-cost tactics.  And, of course, the Dems should do the same.

53 minutes ago, karaddin said:

I'm starting to wonder if it's just inability to confront how fucked you are though? This is the primary reason I don't think there's any hope for 2018 midterms, most states are already gerrymandered to shit before you add mass voter suppression on top, and a failure in 2018 midterms leads into a second Trump term in 2020.

My argument is in spite of gerrymandering and voter suppression, there still is a lack of turnout on behalf of the Dems, particularly in midterm and off-year elections.  So, that's the easiest thing to rectify and should be the emphasis, rather than solely focusing on the former two which engenders a defeatist attitude.

[DanteGabriel]

1 hour ago, karaddin said:

The numbers have been covered already in other responses. I've been shocked at how little Dem supporters acknowledge this - you complain about the number of voters that didn't show up, there were a bunch of voters suppressed... Maybe they're the same people?! Until now I've been assuming it was a desire to avoid looking like sore losers, the last time a GOP president was elected it was also under dubious circumstances and that was talked about for a very long time and republicans loved pointing this out. 

I'm starting to wonder if it's just inability to confront how fucked you are though? This is the primary reason I don't think there's any hope for 2018 midterms, most states are already gerrymandered to shit before you add mass voter suppression on top, and a failure in 2018 midterms leads into a second Trump term in 2020. When I say I worry there won't be another free and fair election this is what I'm talking about, not that there won't be an election at all.

I honestly have no idea what can be done, but one of the things that needs to happen is stop thinking of the GOP as a rational rival that can be worked with, they're a damaging opponent that must be defeated at every turn. Purge concern about hypocrisy because they sure as fuck don't care, stop thinking that pointing it out will work as a gotcha. You can worry about that again if you get out the other side of this.

Sorry I missed earlier discussion of the vote suppression numbers -- I cannot keep up with this thread, though I try to skim the previous few pages before I post.

Mostly my comment was more about the frustration the the Democratic Party hasn't fought hard enough against disenfranchisement of their voters. It drives me batty that this party keeps letting the Republican bully-brats take their lunch. And I'm pissed that the media narrative has been about lack of enthusiasm for Clinton -- which I don't doubt, but holy shit can none of those cocktail party journalists connect the fucking dots?

I am pretty pessimistic in general. Not just for our political system, but our culture, the ugly and self-destructive phenomenon of American exceptionalism, and the general benightedness of humans in general. My view of the future has turned dark. I hate the idea of my son growing up in the notably crueller and shittier world that Trump is steering us into.

[Darth Richard II]

14 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

I am pretty pessimistic in general. Not just for our political system, but our culture, the ugly and self-destructive phenomenon of American exceptionalism, and the general benightedness of humans in general. My view of the future has turned dark. I hate the idea of my son growing up in the notably crueller and shittier world that Trump is steering us into.

This. A thousand times this.

[Fragile Bird]

Just imagine if Obama had threatened to snatch away Fox's broadcast license for reporting false news.

I'd imagine the Republicans would announce there was a constitutional crisis and start impeachment hearings.

[HoodedCrow]

Usually when Trump denounces someone, it is right before he does a lot more of what he is claiming they are doing. Let's suppose he and his buddies start a far right television "news" network that uses even more outlandish and untruthful news entertainment that is worse than FOX.

[Jace, Extat]

This chick on CNN straight dishin' on Harvey Winestein being a goddamn pedo freak. I kept waiting for the weird story to end, but it just kept going on...

[Darth Richard II]

13 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

This chick on CNN straight dishin' on Harvey Winestein being a goddamn pedo freak. I kept waiting for the weird story to end, but it just kept going on...

That thing keeps getting weirder and more disgusting.

[kairparavel]

12 hours ago, Fez said:

I'm getting more and more concerned about the Virginia governor's race. This should be a layup for Democrats (and the public polling is quite positive), but insiders keep talking about how both campaigns think it's a dead heat. And there seems to be no excitement, or even attention being paid, on the left. I see very few yard signs here in NoVa (which I know don't help, but usually all the houses around here have them); and when I check liberal sites (like DailyKos) to see what they're talking about, there's usually literally no mention at all of the race.

Biden is coming in to help campaign, and there's talk Obama may as well, but I'm really concerned about activists sitting this one out because we rejected their candidate for the more moderate (and sitting Lt. Gov.) Northam.

I'm also worried that too many moderate Republicans (there are quite a few still in Virginia) and even some moderate Democrats still think of Gillespie as the mainstream, "I-only-care-about-making-Virginia-a-business-friendly-state" guy that he used to be, and not paying attention to the Trumpy, Corey Stewart-endorsed far-right cultural warfare campaign he is running and governor he is promising to be

Gillespie appears to be running on the sole platform of 'MS-13 is here to rape and murder your family because of sanctuary cities'. How do you counter that in an exciting and energized way? Gillespie's ads grate on my nerves. 

Maybe tell the people your health care plan? 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/democrat-northam-leads-republican-gillespie-in-race-for-virginia-governor/2017/10/04/a62425e6-a78e-11e7-b3aa-c0e2e1d41e38_story.html
 

[DMC]

1 hour ago, kairparavel said:

Gillespie appears to be running on the sole platform of 'MS-13 is here to rape and murder your family because of sanctuary cities'. How do you counter that in an exciting and energized way? Gillespie's ads grate on my nerves. 

Maybe tell the people your health care plan? 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/democrat-northam-leads-republican-gillespie-in-race-for-virginia-governor/2017/10/04/a62425e6-a78e-11e7-b3aa-c0e2e1d41e38_story.html
 

I don't know Virginia politics well enough to offer an educated opinion, but my general advice would be to exploit your fundraising advantage by staying on message while going negative on the side.  Gillespie is way too smart of a politician to be underestimated - and it's concerning that Northam hasn't publicly polled at or over 50 other than a couple that were gonna lean towards him anyway.  Fez is totally right to be concerned - he's mobilized me to do what I can out of state.